p.9 #1 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
I used the combo in the afternoon last Monday and as I posted previously, I was impressed by the cursory look and even more so after a closer look. I venture to say that my keeper rate is actually closer to 90%. It didn’t miss any focus for flying larger birds, such as white pelicans and egrets. And also for smaller birds, such gulls, terns, etc. They flew sideways, away from me and straight at me. Granted these are not super fast birds but they are not too slow either.
My settings are as follows: mostly at 600mm, f/6.7, 1/4000sec., Zone AF, electronic first curtain shutter, Auto ISO, AF Tracking Sensitivity: 1 (Locked-on), Priority Set in AF-C: AF and OSS mode 3. I am using the A7r IV way more now than my A9 II also in combo with my GM 600mm lens for faster flying kites. It feels like it is on steroid now. I am not sure whether it is due to the FW or just the circumstances I was shooting under or not sure what either. But for sure I feel more confident in using this body for wildlife,
p.9 #2 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
armd wrote:
Therein lies the beauty of this lens. While I've seen wonderful rigs on kayaks for the big glass, there is nothing better than something which can be handheld and used successfully. The 200-600 is sharp, versatile, and simply a joy. My only criticism other than the hood construction is the lateral CA.
I've used my 600/4 (both Canon and Sony) and my Nikon 500/4 in the kayak but it isn't fun. My favourite kayak lens is 500PF but 200-600 is also excellent.
Colin took this photo of me yesterday in the 'yak aiming back at him with the 2-6....
Also the smoky sunrise...
p.9 #3 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
Is there any consensus or strong anecdotal evidence of which shutter to use for fast action with the a7r4 and 200-600 or any other telephoto lens?
I think I've seen mechanical, electronic and electronic first curtain listed as preferred.
Are there some general guidelines of when and why you choose one over the other?
Thanks,
Lon
p.9 #4 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
A9Lon wrote:
Is there any consensus or strong anecdotal evidence of which shutter to use for fast action with the a7r4 and 200-600 or any other telephoto lens?
I think I've seen mechanical, electronic and electronic first curtain listed as preferred.
Are there some general guidelines of when and why you choose one over the other?
Thanks,
Lon
Lon, unless I need to evoke some kind of motion, I set my shutter speed between 1/2000 and 1/4000 sec, regardless of the lens or the focal length setting if a zoom is used for fast actions. For stationary targets, I set the shutter speed to 1/1000 sec to get a lower ISO setting.
Using straight mechanical shutter will make the shutter noise louder. Most of the time though, it doesn’t matter much to the wildlife but may bother the people around you. Using the electronic/silent shutter with the A7r IV will cause the rolling shutter effect, that may or may not necessarily noticeable in your final files. Personally, I don’t recall using my A7r IV in the silent shutter mode. My preference is using the EFCS with the A7r IV. If I use my A9 II, it is 100% electronic shutter unless I am using flash and that’s very seldom around here but more so in Costa Rica or Ecuador, from example.
p.9 #5 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
Joshua,
Thanks for the feedback.
I shot a bunch of wild turkey photos this spring from a ground blind and used the silent shutter almost exclusively because these were wild birds and they were close! I used both the a9 and a7r4 but I didn't have any super fast action. Some running and a couple flying shots but mostly interaction and portraits. I didn't have any rolling shutter issues per se.
I'm fairly new to Sony and mirrorless so trying figure all this stuff out. I'm hoping to get some chances at action this fall.
My tired old memory had me thinking Geoff/arbitrage prefers mechanical shutter on the a7r4 for action so it piqued my interest when I saw you choose EFCS...
Lon
p.9 #6 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
Joshua,
Thanks for the feedback.
I shot a bunch of wild turkey photos this spring from a ground blind and used the silent shutter almost exclusively because these were wild birds and they were close! I used both the a9 and a7r4 but I didn't have any super fast action. Some running and a couple flying shots but mostly interaction and portraits. I didn't have any rolling shutter issues per se.
I'm fairly new to Sony and mirrorless so trying figure all this stuff out. I'm hoping to get some chances at action this fall.
My tired old memory had me thinking Geoff/arbitrage prefers mechanical shutter on the a7r4 for action so it piqued my interest when I saw you choose EFCS...
Lon
p.9 #7 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
Beautiful images,
Three things are obvious,
1) Not everyone is having issues with the lens on a a7riv.
2) The update has not resolved the issues.
3) Sony needs to address the problem.
arbitrage wrote:
I've used my 600/4 (both Canon and Sony) and my Nikon 500/4 in the kayak but it isn't fun. My favourite kayak lens is 500PF but 200-600 is also excellent.
Colin took this photo of me yesterday in the 'yak aiming back at him with the 2-6....
Also the smoky sunrise...
p.9 #8 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
I am getting ready to purchase the A7R IV/200-600 combo. After spending three months reading all 700,000 words on the combo performance issues (yes I have time on my hands), I just want to see if I have accurately summarized the current state of play:
1. Sony has never acknowledged any sort of hardware or software compatibility issue between camera and lens.
2. Sony has never issued any sort of firmware update to specifically address any compatibility issue.
3. All compatibility issues to date have been attributed to everything from camera settings to technique to subject to environment to type of background to use of polarized lens filters to a bad lens to a bad camera etc. Not an all inclusive list. Some have no issues with the combo.
4. Solutions to the issues are as numerous as the issues themselves.
Is that a pretty close summation or did I perhaps miss some sort of epiphany?
p.9 #9 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
sygtryggr wrote:
I am getting ready to purchase the A7R IV/200-600 combo. After spending three months reading all 700,000 words on the combo performance issues (yes I have time on my hands), I just want to see if I have accurately summarized the current state of play:
1. Sony has never acknowledged any sort of hardware or software compatibility issue between camera and lens.
2. Sony has never issued any sort of firmware update to specifically address any compatibility issue.
3. All compatibility issues to date have been attributed to everything from camera settings to technique to subject to environment to type of background to use of polarized lens filters to a bad lens to a bad camera etc. Not an all inclusive list. Some have no issues with the combo.
4. Solutions to the issues are as numerous as the issues themselves.
Is that a pretty close summation or did I perhaps miss some sort of epiphany?...Show more →
You didn't miss anything. It's classic confirmation bias.
p.9 #10 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
sygtryggr wrote:
I am getting ready to purchase the A7R IV/200-600 combo. After spending three months reading all 700,000 words on the combo performance issues (yes I have time on my hands), I just want to see if I have accurately summarized the current state of play:
1. Sony has never acknowledged any sort of hardware or software compatibility issue between camera and lens.
2. Sony has never issued any sort of firmware update to specifically address any compatibility issue.
3. All compatibility issues to date have been attributed to everything from camera settings to technique to subject to environment to type of background to use of polarized lens filters to a bad lens to a bad camera etc. Not an all inclusive list. Some have no issues with the combo.
4. Solutions to the issues are as numerous as the issues themselves.
Is that a pretty close summation or did I perhaps miss some sort of epiphany?...Show more →
I don't feel the FW ever did anything. I was seeing improvements based on changes to techniques/settings before the (in)famous FW. I continued to refine that success and was doing pretty good, most days, right up till when I sold the RIV to buy the A1. That said, there are issues with that combination. OSS is a big issue and back focus is an issue. Otherwise when it hits it gives you super detailed images.
I don't buy that there are immune lenses/bodies out there. I've tried enough copies from friends to know it is generalized. Some people just aren't very critical looking for softness in images. It isn't like the camera misses focus by miles...it misses by 10ths of millimeteres.
p.9 #12 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
sygtryggr wrote:
Thanks all. Sounds like the conclusion is: operator error
Or operator expectation. When you pair a 61mp camera and shoot relatively tiny animals at 600mm, I think the margin for error is a lot smaller than with cameras that are meant to shoot fast action.
EDIT: I shouldn’t assume or imply that focal length + megapixels has an impact. As noted below, if you pair a 600 GM with the A7RIV, there seems to be no issues. I also think that’s not a practical solution to the problem but that’s beside the point
p.9 #15 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
I amended my post so not to spread any misinformation.
arbitrage wrote:
I (and many others) had no issues getting consistent sharp shots with the 600GM at 600 or 840. So 600mm+ focal length on 61MPs is not the problem.
p.9 #17 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
For my business, I shoot with a Nikon D5 and a few different lenses. I shoot in low light, so I am keeping my Nikon gear as it performs excellent. However, I am looking at buying a A7RIV and 200-600 for my birding and wildlife outings, but if it has issues, I may just use my D850 and 200-500. I am not changing the subject here, but if I do buy the A7 and 200-600, am I going to regret it?
p.9 #18 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
RKnecht wrote:
For my business, I shoot with a Nikon D5 and a few different lenses. I shoot in low light, so I am keeping my Nikon gear as it performs excellent. However, I am looking at buying a A7RIV and 200-600 for my birding and wildlife outings, but if it has issues, I may just use my D850 and 200-500. I am not changing the subject here, but if I do buy the A7 and 200-600, am I going to regret it?
p.9 #19 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
RKnecht wrote:
For my business, I shoot with a Nikon D5 and a few different lenses. I shoot in low light, so I am keeping my Nikon gear as it performs excellent. However, I am looking at buying a A7RIV and 200-600 for my birding and wildlife outings, but if it has issues, I may just use my D850 and 200-500. I am not changing the subject here, but if I do buy the A7 and 200-600, am I going to regret it?
I'd seriously buy an A9II second hand if they are available. While the 61MP is enticing, the fact you are stuck in mechanical shutter and have VF blackout, smaller buffer and slow buffer clears is hard to bear after you have used the A9/A9II. The 200-600 is still excellent with the 1.4x TC even wide open at 840mm and for birding it's usually enough reach. Also if your source material is good, Topaz Gigapixel AI does a great job of uprezzing. I often do a mild 20-30% max uprez and it looks better than the original. Just don't expect miracles if you have massively cropped and the subject is small and/or very noisy.
Once you have used the A9 and mastered it, you will be amazed at how good the AF is and that silent blackout free shooting is amazing. Can't wait to eventually update to the A1.
p.9 #20 · A7rIV & 200-600 looks like issues may have been resolved
arbitrage wrote:
I don't buy that there are immune lenses/bodies out there. I've tried enough copies from friends to know it is generalized. Some people just aren't very critical looking for softness in images. It isn't like the camera misses focus by miles...it misses by 10ths of millimeteres.
Hmm. At 600 mm, f/6.4 (sorry, the calculator I used doesn't have f/6.3) at a distance of 10 m to subject (using standard CoC of 0.03 mm), the depth of field is 10 cm. That's 1000x one tenth of a millimeter. Small pixels or not, I doubt that anyone would be able to discern between focus errors of 0.1 mm in practical use, unless we're talking about macro work.
Adjusting the CoC to pixel pitch of the A7R IV, we get a depth of field of 1 cm at a distance of 10 m. Still 100x greater than 0.1 mm.
