"Don't quit your day job" is a very common comical response to someone trying to be funny, and isn't a sensitive response at all. Somebody is being sensitive to comments, it isn't Ronno.
p.4 #3 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
snapsy wrote:
- well, it is funny!
Seriously, who else offers 8K at this size and price point?
I have one on pre-order. Can stop the order if things go sour, but the photo capability and the AF alone are very, very enticing. Expecting sensor technology close to the 1Dx III, accounting for 45 mpx, of course. Not a video guy, so 30 minutes of 8K doesn't mean much to me. The few short videos I do take, well, they'll probably be HD, not even 4K. My computer drive space is not infinite.
Interesting contraption. And I think that outside of an internal fan, putting a heat sink surface with fins on the back of the body would be the best way to deal with excess heat. there's a boatload of processing going on in a 4K-120 or 8K camera. Size, power consumption, weather-sealing are all concerns. External heat sink surfaces with a way to move air across them when needed (which in reality would not be very often) would be a great way to dissipate excess heat.
p.4 #5 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
lighthound wrote:
If you don't LYAO watching that, there is something wrong with you. Funniest damn video I've seen in a long time.
It is funny - I don't care who you are!
Just waiting for the "Hitler" video that is often used for political humor. I'm sure that it can be adapted to this situation, regardless of how insignificant it actually is.
p.4 #6 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
dmcphoto wrote:
I have no interest in video and would never consider buying a camera that compromises factors like size, weight, durability, or ease of use for stills in order to implement video features. I don't mind a camera having video if those features are basically invisible when the camera is used for stills, as on recent Canon DSLRs like the 5DSR or 5DIV. I also don't want to pay a lot more for a features I'll never use.
I suspect the reason the R5 has 45MP instead of a higher resolution, and an AA filter, has to do with the 8K video implementation. I also think the camera's price reflects technical measures required for the video implementation and the desirability (whether that's real or not) of the video features. All of that puts me off a bit since I don't need or want any of it. But adding the size, weight, complexity, price, and lack of reliability inherent in active cooling would make the camera DOA for me. I might represent a minority, but I know lots of people who wouldn't want to compromise these things to have fantastic video features.
The 45MP is surely a video compromise. Maybe Canon could produce a more video oriented version of the R5 (R5V) for an extra $500 or something and sell the standard version for normal use.
p.4 #8 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
mikeinctown wrote:
They did lay it out at the beginning. In fact they laid it out in their official announcement and 3 weeks before the camera came out and before preorders were allowed. They did leak info that 8k was indeed a feature set, but I don't think I saw anyone on line or in person ever saying that there wouldn't be a time limit. I mean really, don't they say those 20 minutes take up nearly 500 gigs of memory? That is an insane amount of memory needed if people really think they are going to record hours of wedding footage.
I don't recall the detail coming out like they just provided but I might have missed it. The fact they made a statement of clarification seems to indicate they realized there might be some confusion, at best, regarding the specs and I like that they felt a need to get out in front of the situation. Canon has a history of teasing potential pre-order buyers with carefully crafted marketing that isn't always straightforward. Like I said, I think it is best to give the full specs right from the start leaving nothing left to speculate about.
p.4 #10 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
arbitrage wrote:
Remember that Apple is moving all the computers to custom ARM silicone over the next two years and that is what runs the iPad/iPhones already. The laptop/desktop ARM processors and graphics should run laps around Intel....I'd hold off and see what they release later this year...supposed to be 13" MacBook Pro and 13" Air first.
p.4 #11 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
Ziffl3 wrote:
Nope.... not an issue.
You make proxies when you edit.
I am on davinci resolve.... easy to do this.
The size would show up on the render.
People who want 4K@120 already know what to expect.
And yes.... I run off m2 ssd for my scratch space.
The only camera that comes close to size with quality video codec at 6K in the black magic pocket CC 6K.
And this is not at 120 FPS.
And yes, shooter understand how to use, store said video clips.
People whine about things they don’t know much about.
TBQH the 4K120 is far, far more interesting than 8K in a practical sense as a B/FX/crash cam. Anyone seriously interested in 8K acquisition is looking at an entirely different capture and processing pipeline. And if one is boneheaded enough to do long-take work (interviews?) at 8K on this camera, they deserve every ounce of pain they will endure both on set and in post.
And finally Canon seemingly has stopped kneecapping the codecs & profiles in these bodies to "differentiate" them from the C*00 series.
Curious to see examples of dynamic range across profiles & codecs.
That's Intel's latest 10th Gen chip getting matched by an ARM chip (that will be 2 revs back as of Sept 1) with tablet cooling.
Imagine what happens when this goes into a desktop with a larger die size/core count and ample heat dissipation.
Laptops processors are handicapped as compared to desktop versions, and desktops often have far more memory and video processing capability. Based on some digging I did the other day, a desktop equipped with a new AMD processor has like double the score of these systems. I understand some people like to be mobile with everything, but if you are trying to process hundreds of gigs of video data using a laptop or tablet, well I don't know what to say other than have fun.
p.4 #13 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
PicGuy wrote:
I don't recall the detail coming out like they just provided but I might have missed it. The fact they made a statement of clarification seems to indicate they realized there might be some confusion, at best, regarding the specs and I like that they felt a need to get out in front of the situation. Canon has a history of teasing potential pre-order buyers with carefully crafted marketing that isn't always straightforward. Like I said, I think it is best to give the full specs right from the start leaving nothing left to speculate about.
On the Canon website they have specifications listed. They have changed the document from the original release date, but if you look back in posts you will see that on the day of launch people were already discussing the 20 minute record limit. It was no secret.
p.4 #14 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
mikeinctown wrote:
Laptops processors are handicapped as compared to desktop versions, and desktops often have far more memory and video processing capability. Based on some digging I did the other day, a desktop equipped with a new AMD processor has like double the score of these systems. I understand some people like to be mobile with everything, but if you are trying to process hundreds of gigs of video data using a laptop or tablet, well I don't know what to say other than have fun.
I understand you're partly referring to a prior post about editing on tablets, but directly comparing a Ryzen 3rd gen desktop to an iPad Pro is pretty... apples to oranges (pardon the pun).
Apple's not going to stick the current SoCs into a desktop design, they'll use dedicated high core designs, some of which already exist and are deployed in HPC environments. There is an 80 core ARM chip that benches slightly above Epyc (with less power draw) that is available, right now. I would not be surprised if gen 1 desktop Apple Silicon is derivative of this design.
Probably the most fruitful way to compare the performance across these fairly disparate designs is performance per watt. The 10th-gen Intel chip in the 2020 MBP13 uses 15W. The A12Z in the iPad Pro, which effectively matches it in both CPU and GPU performance uses... 6 Watts.
Why does performance per watt matter? Because it gives Apple a lot of design headway to either extend battery life, push performance, or a mix of both. And in the case of revising the iMac Pro & Mac Pro, they have the thermal headway to go pretty crazy if they so choose. Especially with the ability to mix core types (performance vs energy) in ARM architecture, this could be incredibly beneficial for stills workflows to say nothing of video workflows.
And you get solid integrated GPU performance along the way as well, which will potentially be a major boon for remote/mobile editing (if you haven't tried RAW editing on an iPad Pro, it's worth taking for a spin). And it could get very interesting if Apple implements something like Quicksync for GPU transcoding of 4K120/8K footage...
AMD is certainly a more interesting comparison all around. Their latest laptop chips are absurdly better than Intel and should have cleared the board already if not due to Intel's preexisting vendor relationships. This will be doubly interesting to watch from a market share standpoint as Apple Silicon becomes prevalent, given Boot Camp is going away on Mac.
p.4 #15 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
PicGuy wrote:
I don't recall the detail coming out like they just provided but I might have missed it. The fact they made a statement of clarification seems to indicate they realized there might be some confusion, at best, regarding the specs and I like that they felt a need to get out in front of the situation. Canon has a history of teasing potential pre-order buyers with carefully crafted marketing that isn't always straightforward. Like I said, I think it is best to give the full specs right from the start leaving nothing left to speculate about.
People were only free to start speculating about it because Canon published the overheating specifications.
And, well, some people were legitimately disappointed in their inability to record unlimited 8k downsampled 4k30, others were looking for a reason to confirm their belief in the Canon Cripple Hammer, and others (like me) were extremely happy that Canon chose overheating and high specs than either:
1. Bloating the camera to add cooling.
2. Ruining weather sealing to add cooling.
3. Decreasing the sensor resolution to allow unlimited 4k60/120.
Other companies don't publish their overheating specifications and expectations, and also don't include a timer for expected thermal capacity.
For example, the A7sII will overheat at room temperature when shooting 4k30 after about 40 minutes based on user testing &feature=emb_title
Note that this is user testing to determine what the situation is, because Sony didn't publish anything.
So, let's put this in to perspective:
The Canon R5 is capable of unlimited 4k30 (when using pixel binning rather than 8k oversampling) 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording at room temperature, which means that it should satisfy basically anybody using this to film wedding ceremonies.
For 4k60, 4k120, and 8k modes, it is extremely unlikely that people will encounter scenarios in which they are highly inconvenienced by the thermal capacity, especially in light of the incoming firmware update that will add 1080p120 which should not overheat anywhere nearly as quickly. And for those that are highly inconvenienced by it, they should likely buy something like the Panasonic S1H, or perhaps even the A7sIII if it lives up to the rumored specifications, as they have more exotic movie making needs than they have photographic needs. They still won't be able to film a segment in 8k though, no matter how long or short it is.
Canon has made it extremely clear and easily accessible to users to determine whether the thermal capacity of the R5 and R6 will be an issue for them, and started doing so on the day the camera was announced.
p.4 #16 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
franm8r wrote:
I understand you're partly referring to a prior post about editing on tablets, but directly comparing a Ryzen 3rd gen desktop to an iPad Pro is pretty... apples to oranges (pardon the pun).
Apple's not going to stick the current SoCs into a desktop design, they'll use dedicated high core designs, some of which already exist and are deployed in HPC environments. There is an 80 core ARM chip that benches slightly above Epyc (with less power draw) that is available, right now. I would not be surprised if gen 1 desktop Apple Silicon is derivative of this design.
Probably the most fruitful way to compare the performance across these fairly disparate designs is performance per watt. The 10th-gen Intel chip in the 2020 MBP13 uses 15W. The A12Z in the iPad Pro, which effectively matches it in both CPU and GPU performance uses... 6 Watts.
Why does performance per watt matter? Because it gives Apple a lot of design headway to either extend battery life, push performance, or a mix of both. And in the case of revising the iMac Pro & Mac Pro, they have the thermal headway to go pretty crazy if they so choose. Especially with the ability to mix core types (performance vs energy) in ARM architecture, this could be incredibly beneficial for stills workflows to say nothing of video workflows.
And you get solid integrated GPU performance along the way as well, which will potentially be a major boon for remote/mobile editing (if you haven't tried RAW editing on an iPad Pro, it's worth taking for a spin). And it could get very interesting if Apple implements something like Quicksync for GPU transcoding of 4K120/8K footage...
AMD is certainly a more interesting comparison all around. Their latest laptop chips are absurdly better than Intel and should have cleared the board already if not due to Intel's preexisting vendor relationships. This will be doubly interesting to watch from a market share standpoint as Apple Silicon becomes prevalent, given Boot Camp is going away on Mac.
One thing is certain: we win with this shift. ...Show more →
That is my point exactly. All this crap about such and such outperforming laptops really doesn't get into the fact that people aren't likely going to be editing a terabyte of video on a laptop. Small files, perhaps, but then a 5% difference in speed likely doesn't matter much.
I have two laptops that I have LR on but only use my desktop for that purpose. The laptops are to be used for photo editing if I go on a trip and want to get something looked at right away. I would suspect that given the amount of files and storage many people have/need that this is the case for many, many out there.
p.4 #17 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
mikeinctown wrote:
On the Canon website they have specifications listed. They have changed the document from the original release date, but if you look back in posts you will see that on the day of launch people were already discussing the 20 minute record limit. It was no secret.
Did they have details regarding the 73 degree temperatures and the waiting period to do subsequent recordings and the expected durations of those recordings?
p.4 #18 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
PicGuy wrote:
Did they have details regarding the 73 degree temperatures and the waiting period to do subsequent recordings and the expected durations of those recordings?
No, they said room temperature, not specifically 73 degrees. They gave live interview responses on day one about the waiting times and gave details about the available recording time after overheating.
Again, why level this criticism at Canon when they have gone above and beyond what other manufacturers in the same situation have done?
p.4 #19 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
Jesse Evans wrote:
People were only free to start speculating about it because Canon published the overheating specifications.
And, well, some people were legitimately disappointed in their inability to record unlimited 8k downsampled 4k30, others were looking for a reason to confirm their belief in the Canon Cripple Hammer, and others (like me) were extremely happy that Canon chose overheating and high specs than either:
1. Bloating the camera to add cooling.
2. Ruining weather sealing to add cooling.
3. Decreasing the sensor resolution to allow unlimited 4k60/120.
Other companies don't publish their overheating specifications and expectations, and also don't include a timer for expected thermal capacity.
For example, the A7sII will overheat at room temperature when shooting 4k30 after about 40 minutes based on user testing &feature=emb_title
Note that this is user testing to determine what the situation is, because Sony didn't publish anything.
So, let's put this in to perspective:
The Canon R5 is capable of unlimited 4k30 (when using pixel binning rather than 8k oversampling) 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording at room temperature, which means that it should satisfy basically anybody using this to film wedding ceremonies.
For 4k60, 4k120, and 8k modes, it is extremely unlikely that people will encounter scenarios in which they are highly inconvenienced by the thermal capacity, especially in light of the incoming firmware update that will add 1080p120 which should not overheat anywhere nearly as quickly. And for those that are highly inconvenienced by it, they should likely buy something like the Panasonic S1H, or perhaps even the A7sIII if it lives up to the rumored specifications, as they have more exotic movie making needs than they have photographic needs. They still won't be able to film a segment in 8k though, no matter how long or short it is.
Canon has made it extremely clear and easily accessible to users to determine whether the thermal capacity of the R5 and R6 will be an issue for them, and started doing so on the day the camera was announced....Show more →
I am not bashing Canon on anything to be clear. I actually find the R5 to be the first camera in over a decade where they have actually pushed the limits in a good way. They seem to be leaving it to the user to figure out how to squeeze what they need from it and not crippling it unnecessarily. Canon did the right thing with the R5 and they really had no choice. I don't think they could afford to offer another underwhelming MILC camera. I like what they have done with the R5 and likely the R6 too. This comes on the heals of the M6/2 which I think was a very good followup to the M6. I hope this marks a new mentality from Canon to push the envelope and not decide to cripple their products for no good reason regarding the end user's ability to be aggressive when using it.
p.4 #20 · Canon issued a statment regarding the overheating of the R5
Jesse Evans wrote:
No, they said room temperature, not specifically 73 degrees. They gave live interview responses on day one about the waiting times and gave details about the available recording time after overheating.
Again, why level this criticism at Canon when they have gone above and beyond what other manufacturers in the same situation have done?
- well, it is funny!