arbitrage wrote:
Has anyone tested the Delkin 256GB and/or the Prograde Gold 256GB (Gen 2) cards for support of 8K/4K120 video?
I'm looking at one of these cards instead of my Transcend just to future proof video if I want to do some in the future or play around with the 8K30 stills extraction.
allright, just did some tests with my Delkin 256gb card.
8k 30 second clip in both c-log and raw; about 4 and 9 gb clips; no issues.
4k100 (PAL region here ) 15 second clip in c-log; about 3,15 gb. no issues.
a while ago I shot 4k120 clips for an hour or so, can't remember if it was on the 256gb card (think so) or the 512 but that went fine too
arbitrage wrote:
Has anyone tested the Delkin 256GB and/or the Prograde Gold 256GB (Gen 2) cards for support of 8K/4K120 video?
I'm looking at one of these cards instead of my Transcend just to future proof video if I want to do some in the future or play around with the 8K30 stills extraction.
According to Prograde specs, you'd need to step up to the 512 to do 8k/4k120; 128 and 256 can't do it. I've seen 512 owner reviews where even some experienced issues with that card (not sure if it were the Gen 1 or Gen 2 card). They said that when recording they would get a message ever so often that the speeds were to low and recording would stop. I recall seeing those owner reviews on B&H and Adorama and folks commenting on Youtube videos where the poster was testing various cards. There were some owners that were upset because they purchased the 128 and 256 Prograde cards thinking they were ok for those video formats. After seeing those reviews, I started looking at the Sony cards, but Tiggy's testing (not video related) made me second guess the Sony cards, but not because of the video capabilities. All Sony cards can handle 8k/4k120. Because of all of that above, I settled on the Prograde Cobalt 325, which can handle all the video formats, if I ever decide to flip that switch and based on Tiggy's testing is great all around workhorse. Plus, the minimum write speeds leaves a lot of headroom to run those video formats and not run the risk of dipping below the required speed needed.
As I stated in my previous post, the Cobalt was a good middle ground (i.e. size wise) card that can do it all that kept the cost below my target of $500. I did not want to buy a lower level card and then realize damn, I need another card to do the videos and have to shell out more money. I am future proofed with the Cobalt card. That was my ultimate goal.
Long story short, you need the Prograde 512 or 1TB if you want to do those video formats.
evertdoorn wrote:
allright, just did some tests with my Delkin 256gb card.
8k 30 second clip in both c-log and raw; about 4 and 9 gb clips; no issues.
4k100 (PAL region here ) 15 second clip in c-log; about 3,15 gb. no issues.
a while ago I shot 4k120 clips for an hour or so, can't remember if it was on the 256gb card (think so) or the 512 but that went fine too
---------------------------------------------
Methodical wrote:
According to Prograde specs, you'd need to step up to the 512 to do 8k/4k120; 128 and 256 can't do it. I've seen 512 owner reviews where even some experienced issues with that card (not sure if it were the Gen 1 or Gen 2 card). They said that when recording they would get a message ever so often that the speeds were to low and recording would stop. I recall seeing those owner reviews on B&H and Adorama and folks commenting on Youtube videos where the poster was testing various cards. There were some owners that were upset because they purchased the 128 and 256 Prograde cards thinking they were ok for those video formats. After seeing those reviews, I started looking at the Sony cards, but Tiggy's testing (not video related) made me second guess the Sony cards, but not because of the video capabilities. All Sony cards can handle 8k/4k120. Because of all of that above, I settled on the Prograde Cobalt 325, which can handle all the video formats, if I ever decide to flip that switch and based on Tiggy's testing is great all around workhorse. Plus, the minimum write speeds leaves a lot of headroom to run those video formats and not run the risk of dipping below the required speed needed.
As I stated in my previous post, the Cobalt was a good middle ground (i.e. size wise) card that can do it all that kept the cost below my target of $500. I did not want to buy a lower level card and then realize damn, I need another card to do the videos and have to shell out more money. I am future proofed with the Cobalt card. That was my ultimate goal.
Long story short, you need the Prograde 512 or 1TB if you want to do those video formats.
Thanks for the info. The Prograde Cobalt is outside of the $ I'm willing to spend but it seems to be the best card out there.
Delkin's landing page for their CFExpress Power cards says supports 8K without any asterisk saying it is only for certain capacity cards.
So I think I'll be looking towards the Delkin over the Prograde. Currently I have the Transcend 256 and 512. The 512 is going back to the store for sure (unless someone buys it off the B&S soon). I'd probably be content with the 256 if I was never going to shoot video. But I just feel I might as well invest in one good card that can shoot video.
In Canada I can get the Prograde and Delkin for almost the same price which is around $465. However I only paid $260 for my Transcend 256 (Amazon has now raised that up to $303 but still a cracking deal). Sony and SanDisk 256 cards are in the $575-$620 range. The Cobalt 325 is actually a better deal than the Sony and SD as it is more GBs and $550.
For R5 shooters, I think it makes MUCH more sense to buy a Transcend card, given price and performance.
For video, the internal recording heat limitations already are limiting, and the cards that will reliably record 8k RAW are very, very expensive. Yet you don't get much benefit from those expensive cards because internal recording will limit you to about 22 minutes by both heat AND by capacity. That's how much time you get to fill up 512 8k RAW. Incidentally, the Transcend 512 GB card will limit you to roughly 10 minute clips before the cache catches up with it (at least in the few tests I did).
The solution to the video issue to me is to get an external recorder. Especially the Ninja V. There are then no heat limits, and you can buy a cheap, large SSD to shove in it. I bought a 2 TB SSD for about $130, and it'll record for about an hour and a half with 8k RAW on the R5. I get 4+ hours on 4K HQ, which is what I actually shoot. The total cost of the Ninja V system was about $700 after I also bought a cord, a drive, and a nice hot shoe mount. That was less than you'll spend on a single Angelbird 660 XT card for internal recording.
I originally got the Ninja because I had to do some instructional videos for work. I never would have otherwise. But now, I realize what I was missing. There's a lot of cool stuff with the Ninja, and their interface made it so I could explore it without going into a manual. Very impressive. Now that I've tasted that, I'd highly recommend anyone doing even a small project look at the external recorder over an equally-expensive CFexpress card for video. It can record right into ProRes and other formats, which can make editing many times faster.
If, on the other hand, you're high bitrate video intentions are for little 30 second or few-minutes clips, the Transcend card will work great without an external recorder.
Thanks for the info. The Prograde Cobalt is outside of the $ I'm willing to spend but it seems to be the best card out there.
Delkin's landing page for their CFExpress Power cards says supports 8K without any asterisk saying it is only for certain capacity cards.
So I think I'll be looking towards the Delkin over the Prograde. Currently I have the Transcend 256 and 512. The 512 is going back to the store for sure (unless someone buys it off the B&S soon). I'd probably be content with the 256 if I was never going to shoot video. But I just feel I might as well invest in one good card that can shoot video.
In Canada I can get the Prograde and Delkin for almost the same price which is around $465. However I only paid $260 for my Transcend 256 (Amazon has now raised that up to $303 but still a cracking deal). Sony and SanDisk 256 cards are in the $575-$620 range. The Cobalt 325 is actually a better deal than the Sony and SD as it is more GBs and $550....Show more →
Arbitrage, the Cobalt 325 is $430. I am not sure it that's the same in Canada though. Check Prograde's web page. Amazon also has it for $430.
Tiggy, I won't be doing that much video to even consider hitting the heating time limits and definitely not 22 minutes worth. I want to be sure that if I ever decide to flip the switch and record for a few minutes, I can use any of the video modes with no issue.
tiggy wrote:
I bought a 2 TB SSD for about $130, and it'll record for about an hour and a half with 8k RAW on the R5.
Tiggy,
I'm going the ninja V route too and have noticed Atomos's recommendations for SSDs that support 4K 60 is a bit limited. Which 2 TB SSD did you get? I've already purchases the Sandisk 1TB Ultra 3D which isn't on their list but the 500 GB version is so I'm hoping I'm ok. I also want to add a 2 TB SSD.
Methodical wrote:
Arbitrage, the Cobalt 325 is $430. I am not sure it that's the same in Canada though. Check Prograde's web page. Amazon also has it for $430.
Tiggy, I won't be doing that much video to even consider hitting the heating time limits and definitely not 22 minutes worth. I want to be sure that if I ever decide to flip the switch and record for a few minutes, I can use any of the video modes with no issue.
The USD/CAD forex is 1.32x which on a Visa card will end up like 1.35x or more. So $550 CAD is about on par with $430 USD.
Methodical wrote:
Tiggy, I won't be doing that much video to even consider hitting the heating time limits and definitely not 22 minutes worth. I want to be sure that if I ever decide to flip the switch and record for a few minutes, I can use any of the video modes with no issue.
You won't be able to do 8K RAW. I tried it this morning with the 512 Transcend card, and it went for exactly 10 seconds before bumping me out of recording. But you can do 10 minutes of normal 8K 30p. But if you shoot video RAW, then you're nuts if you don't do external recording. The external recorder will do serious processing work while you're shooting to put it in ProRes, so your computer won't take 10 minutes to play 30 seconds.
I'm going the ninja V route too and have noticed Atomos's recommendations for SSDs that support 4K 60 is a bit limited. Which 2 TB SSD did you get? I've already purchases the Sandisk 1TB Ultra 3D which isn't on their list but the 500 GB version is so I'm hoping I'm ok. I also want to add a 2 TB SSD.
Thanks,
Ted
I got the Western Digital 2TB Blue. It's on the Atomos list (at least the 1TB version is) for 10-bit ProRes RAW HQ at 4K, which was the target I was hitting. The other one I was looking at - and is better qualified on the Atomos list to 12-bit recording - was the OWC equivalent. They're not more expensive, it seems, but I found myself so confused by OWC's various flavors, variants, etc., that I couldn't be sure which one was the right one, so I bought the Western Digital.
The Ninja comes with a "caddy" that will receive the naked drive,and it works great. Just be careful not to lose the included tiny screws. You can also buy extra caddies for like $15.
I also have an Angelbird 1TB AtomX, and those aren't supposed to be quite fast enough for the 10-bit 4K HQ, but I've been recording on mine as a primary drive at 4K HQ, and haven't ever had an issue [one of the perks of ignorance.]
Methodical wrote:
According to Prograde specs, you'd need to step up to the 512 to do 8k/4k120; 128 and 256 can't do it.
Long story short, you need the Prograde 512 or 1TB if you want to do those video formats.
I'm not sure about the Prograde cards but my little 128 SanDisk handles 4k/120 no problem. Now 8k I don't think it can handle, but I never plan on shooting 8k. I might change my mind on that someday once the prices of these CFE cards start dropping.
Hmmm...
Isn't it strange that 128GB is considered small all of a sudden. Less than a year ago that was considered huge.
Next year 2TB cards will be considered tiny and my computer will long be up in smoke.
lighthound wrote:
I'm not sure about the Prograde cards but my little 128 SanDisk handles 4k/120 no problem. Now 8k I don't think it can handle, but I never plan on shooting 8k. I might change my mind on that someday once the prices of these CFE cards start dropping.
Hmmm...
Isn't it strange that 128GB is considered small all of a sudden. Less than a year ago that was considered huge.
Next year 2TB cards will be considered tiny and my computer will long be up in smoke.
Typically I've been buying 64GB cards for my 20-30MP cameras and then started buying 128GB cards for my 45-61MP cameras. I'm not sure why I'm starting to look at 256GB cards for this 45MP camera. I think it is because I'm scared of the 20FPS ES with very poor indication if I'm shooting or not But now I've been just using CRAW anyways so 128GB should be enough for me.
I'm going to test my Transcend cards with video this weekend and see what they give me. Tiggy has provided me what the 512 can do but the 256 is actually rated faster on the package for writing so I will see if that gives any extra video time.
I think the only reason I would use 8K is if I wanted to try some 30FPS frame grabs but that means I do need 8K RAW. However, I doubt I'll do that often (if ever) so I should probably just stick with one of my Transcends or buy a different 128GB and forget video.
tiggy wrote:
You won't be able to do 8K RAW. I tried it this morning with the 512 Transcend card, and it went for exactly 10 seconds before bumping me out of recording. But you can do 10 minutes of normal 8K 30p. But if you shoot video RAW, then you're nuts if you don't do external recording. The external recorder will do serious processing work while you're shooting to put it in ProRes, so your computer won't take 10 minutes to play 30 seconds.
I am not a videographer, so I highly doubt I will do any 8k video, however, I will most definitely try the 4k-120 though, just because. I also highly doubt I will invest in any external video recorder because I am not into video like that.
According to Canon, the Cobalt can do 8K Raw (see link below). It sounds like the Transcend card was dropping below 400 MB/s (minimum needed to run 8K Raw) causing it to shut down, similar to what folks reported with the Prograde 512 card. The Cobalt has way more minimum write speed headroom than those two cards.
Hmmm...
Isn't it strange that 128GB is considered small all of a sudden. Less than a year ago that was considered huge.
Next year 2TB cards will be considered tiny and my computer will long be up in smoke.
Yep, that was my thought, too. I was dead set on a 128gb card (cost thing) and the only one that could cover all the video formats was the Sony Tough cards. Then I thought that I'd better go with a little larger size card because if I did use video I'd eat into the card so fast and risk running out of space because I will be using only the CFexpress card. Then I got to thinking about those times that I would play around with 20 fps..eating into more storage space. Then I wanted a card that would cover all formats with more storage, but below $500, and all of that landed me onto the Cobalt 325. I was not too worried about the cheapest card per GB because that would've have put me over the $500 limit I was will to spend on a card. When I saw that Prograde dropped the price of the Cobalt 325 from $550 to $430, I jumped on it as this card ticked all the boxes.
Methodical wrote:
Yep, that was my thought, too. I was dead set on a 128gb card (cost thing) and the only one that could cover all the video formats was the Sony Tough cards. Then I thought that I'd better go with a little larger size card because if I did use video I'd eat into the card so fast and risk running out of space because I will be using only the CFexpress card. Then I got to thinking about those times that I would play around with 20 fps..eating into more storage space. Then I wanted a card that would cover all formats with more storage, but below $500, and all of that landed me onto the Cobalt 325. I was not too worried about the cheapest card per GB because that would've have put me over the $500 limit I was will to spend on a card. When I saw that Prograde dropped the price of the Cobalt 325 from $550 to $430, I jumped on it as this card ticked all the boxes.
Sounds logical and well thought out to me! And a wise purchase from the looks of it.
When I snatched the SanDisk on opening morning for pre-ordering the R5, I just grabbed the most economical ($200) and reliable CFE I saw while in panic mode placing my orders. I hadn't even decided yet that morning if I was going to Pre-order and didn't do much research into these CFE cards before hand.
Sadly we didn't have Tiggy's wonderful information yet, so I just went with a name I recognized and the smallest size I could get away with and still do 4k/120 if and when the mood ever struck me. No regrets yet and I can always buy a larger more capable card latter when the prices drop if I need to.
To be honest, I had never even heard of some of the brand names that many here are talking about. It seems like overnight the old line of thinking to only buy trusted and proven brand named memory cards changed. But I suspect these new (to me) names have been around for a while in the Cinema world which I don't follow.
arbitrage wrote:
I think it is because I'm scared of the 20FPS ES with very poor indication if I'm shooting or not
I think the only reason I would use 8K is if I wanted to try some 30FPS frame grabs but that means I do need 8K RAW. However, I doubt I'll do that often (if ever) so I should probably just stick with one of my Transcends or buy a different 128GB and forget video.
You and me both! While in AK I got close to 600 beautifully blurry images of my foot one day. Culling is bad enough at 12 fps so I stay in MS all the time because 20fps is just crazy 99.9% of the time. And sadly when that 0.1% moment arrives where I would like to use ES, the moment is gone before you can let off the shutter in MS to make the change over to ES.
I too hope there is some way they can give us something like 10 & 15 fps in ES. I don't know if there is a good technical reason why they can't.
Yes, that 30mp frame grab technique does sound intriguing and something I'd like to try someday if/when I buy a bigger card that can handle it.
The CFexpress card review was updated (one new firmware version, two new cards, and a bunch of data from the card reader test helped flesh things out). You can find that here: https://camnostic.com/cfexpress-cards-comparison/
Tiggy, thanks again for these fantastic comparisons of cards and of readers. I do have two questions for you that is outside what has been covered in these comparisons.
Looking at the prices of good CFexpress cards and comparing it to upper end UHS-II SDXC cards, it makes sense to me to buy CFexpress; not only for the better performance but also for future-proofing (or should I say future-resisting, as these too will eventually be obsolete). But as somebody who has shot two (30 second) video clips in the last six years, I really don't see the need for massive cards for myself.
I was contemplating buying a couple of 64GB cards and one 128GB card this Black Friday and leaving any additional cards for 'later' (when prices have dropped), unless there are some really sweet deals this Black Friday. I don't like to put all my eggs (photos) in one basket (card), so a 256GB card is too much (R5: nearly 4800 photos at RAW and, should I eventually conclude C-RAW is fine to use for my purposes and concerns, almost 8000!)
I like having a few smaller cards (in this case, 64GB) for lighter shoots as I don't reformat a card until an offsite backup is done and I don't want to unnecessarily tie up larger cards on smaller shoots. Are you able to provide any commentary on 64GB cards? Is Delkin still a good choice for 64GB and 128GB from a performance and price point? Any other(s) you would suggest to watch for on Black Friday?
I also read the card reader review just now. One thing I noticed is none of the card readers in the review are capable of reading SDXC cards. I don't expect to use SDXC cards unless highly unusual circumstances dictate so. Having said that, if there was a good dual card reader out there, it might warrant my consideration as a form of situational insurance for the R5. The only one I see on B&H is the ProGrade Digital CFexpress Type B & UHS-II SDXC Dual-Slot USB 3.2 Gen 2 Card Reader. Any insight on this or others you might be aware of?
EverLearning wrote:
One thing I noticed is none of the card readers in the review are capable of reading SDXC cards. I don't expect to use SDXC cards unless highly unusual circumstances dictate so. Having said that, if there was a good dual card reader out there, it might warrant my consideration as a form of situational insurance for the R5. The only one I see on B&H is the ProGrade Digital CFexpress Type B & UHS-II SDXC Dual-Slot USB 3.2 Gen 2 Card Reader. Any insight on this or others you might be aware of?
Thanks!
It's a good question. That is one of three readers we have in our sights (but the only one that does both CFexpress and UHS-II) to add in for an update. The next review we're working on is a UHS-II cards review, and then (likely) a card reader review. Sorry not yet helpful on that question. -tig
) 15 second clip in c-log; about 3,15 gb. no issues. 