Dragonfire, I studied with 2 Canon reps, Denis Reggie and Joe Bussink who charged 40 to 50 grand to photo a wedding. I used what I learned when I returned home and the photo took best in show and PPA one of 10 best photos of the year. I listen to people who are at the top of their game, not those who can't make a living and only make videos.
Thanks again for the help, guys. In the end I went with the Godox V1. I know the AD200 provides more light but I think for me now, the most versatile solution is something that I can mount on-camera as well to provide a general fill-flash for general shooting as well. I've paired it with the Godox Xpro though, so if I grab the AD200 in the future I can control both of them.
I know these examples might not exemplify the highest level of technique, but I'm extremely happy with how the shots came out. We were going for a deep sunset look and the V1, with the AK-R1 kit with 2 stacked CTO filters delivered exactly as promised.
Looks like you are coming along nicely. I'd suggest the book "Light: Science and Magic." It was recommended to me on here and it is an excellent book imo.
Not familiar with the Godox but I was going to recommend a cord to get your flash off camera, and also to bounce it off a ceiling etc. Easy to make reflector using white matte board, foam core, etc You can't preview it but you can look at the LCD pretty easily. Also it Helps to know where the flash EV settings are. You really don't need anything too fancy, it might cost more since Sony is newer, but the Canon flashes I use are like $20-40 now. You just need something that flashes, a lot of the time. TTL is nice though. Guide number ÷ distance = f stop if old manual flashes work properly on a Sony
My best friend has this phobia as well. At first, I thought it's funny, but after I understood that there's no place for jokes. I got a flashlight from https://www.amazon.com/Vont-Flashlight-Flashlights-Water-resistant-Accessories/dp/B089T8HDBV and wanted to scare him for Halloween, but I've changed my mind after I read more about this. I've heard that now, the police use tactical flashlights as self-defense instead of guns, so I guess it's for a reason, however, I don't think it's efficient, but that's just my opinion.
I've been using flash primarily for my portraits for as long I got into flash photography (I'm 33 and have been photographing since high school).
Dave Hobby's Strobist was my resource and then came to know of Scott Kelby and Joe McNally. I also learned from Zack Aria's OneLight course too -- point is, learn as much as you can from established people and just try to reverse engineer shots you like.
I'm already beyond the need to attend this because point is, there's no way around it from learning basics of flash and rules of it (i.e. square inverse law).
99% of my portraits are with flash so if you're wanting to get into portrait photography, feel free to DM me as I'm more than happy to help.
P.S. Saw you got into Godox--great choice in my opinion for the bang for the buck! I started with Minolta 5600 (was a Minolta shooter and with their crappy TTL compared to Nikon/Canons, I ended up shooting manually which really helped me alot actually..) but went to Alien Bees to Einsteins to Priolites (primarily shoot with a Pentax 645Z) to now 4 Godox AD200s--they fit my style perfectly in terms of portability and power.
Late to the thread, but I see that some are saying flash is easy, and others say it is hard. Well, I think it is very hard for most beginners. There are countless aspects to it that baffle folks including me. Here are some questions for those who find flash easy.
- For general portrait photography indoors, what should my first light modifier be for my keylight? Umbrella, softbox, something else?
- I have acquired a Godox AD200 and Godox trigger. Can I use my old Canon and Metz flashes with the Godox? And if so, how?
- How does the effective guide number vary with size of the modifier (for the same flash)?
- Does anybody use pulleys or a servo rig for aiming a hair light mounted on a ceiling?
- I suggest a Photek Softlighter 46” - it’s so flattering you can almost accidentally create great photos, and it doesn’t spill light as much as an open umbrella. I bought mine in 2007 maybe and 14 years on it’s still one of my fave mods
- You need Godox radio receivers and the appropriate sync cable for said receivers to link to each strobe. You lose out on the modern convenience of being able to remote control power, which is one of several reasons most people offload their old gear and move to all Godox
- GN is a deceiving mess, as are pretty much all metrics like WS. You won’t know until you get to working with a given strobe/modifier
- Maybe? It sounds like overkill to me
- Maybe? I never have
I'm mostly an outdoor nature photographer and have little experience with off-camera flash. Now I'm trying to outfit a home studio. There are a ton of questions. It can be hard to get answers. Partly I think it's because flash comes in so many varieties. It's also partly because the studio-light population is very small comparatively, so there are fewer who can give support.
Sounds like I should get all Godox then. It's unfortunate. I have a chance to buy a used Aurora G-800 for a good price, but it will be incompatible.
While the experts scoff at Guide Number, the aperture you can use is nevertheless of crucial importance. We want to know this BEFORE purchasing. The reason you avoid the answer is because it is hard. If I go for a bigger softbox, will I need to upgrade the flash? That is not a trivial issue.
Pre-flash is a non-issue if those other flashes are incompatible anyway.
The problem with Guide Number is that there’s no universal baseline, distance and modifier across each light, and manufacturers tend to overstate the performance of their strobes. Even the same kind of modifier, e.g. “bare reflector” offers such disparate results, flashtube design and reflector design dependent. There probably is a way to use it to guesstimate how one strobe or set of strobes might work within a given workflow, for a given subject, but frankly there are more general, loose associations and understandings that are probably just as good an indicator for what you need. For example, just ask people who are already succeeding in creating work you admire about their tools of choice. Home studio? You’re fine with something with as low output as a speedlight (around 80ws), and anything above that is all gravy. But outside shooting at a distance? There’s no such thing as too much power, yet people seem to be doing OK with 400ws, and even better with 600-1200ws.
Yes, thanks, those considerations are all reasons for why flash is so difficult. One might wonder, if I want to shoot at a certain aperture, and my distances and modifiers are such-and-such, how much power will I need? There is no simple answer.
Folks who know are reluctant to give rough answers and that is understandable. But guesses (or estimates based on experience) can still be very useful. It takes some digging to learn that the AD200 is 2 to 2.5 stops more powerful than the 600-type speedlites. Will the AD200 be sufficient in a home studio? Going by "people who are already succeeding in creating work you admire", No. But going by "anything above that is all gravy", Yes.
One also has to keep upgrade paths in mind. If I buy Flash X and later buy a unit with more power, will the old unit still fit in the new lighting scheme?
I will stick with my AD200 for now, but will have to supplement with a couple of Godox flashes. Maybe one or two Godox TT685 units will suffice.
Well, flash is only difficult if you put the cart before the horse and worry about nailing down all the minutiae to absolute certainty before setting foot in a space and trying things out and learning as you go. Trust me, I was that guy, and it took me years to unlearn this kind of thinking. There’s not a ton of mystery given that you already have an AD200. Yes, it is roughly 2.5x the output of a speedlight. Look at what it provides you at a given distance, in a given mod at 1/1 power, and work back from there. Also, there’s no mystery about flash compatibility- anything made by Godox since around 2015/2016 uses their universal 2.4ghz system, and most of all of their flashes have a receiver built in. You’re not lacking options at every output and size scheme.
jlafferty wrote:
Well, flash is only difficult if you put the cart before the horse and worry about nailing down all the minutiae to absolute certainty before setting foot in a space and trying things out and learning as you go....
I'm pretty sure that flash is just like neurosurgery - easy when you know how.
Why can't GNs be estimated? I'm sure it is possible. The flash characteristics are known exactly, transmission and scattering behavior of the diffusers are known, as well as the reflectance properties of the umbrella and other materials. It is complicated, but I'm pretty sure the GN could be calculated to 1/3 of a stop for any rig that uses known materials. For heavens sake, we can go to the moon. Why can't we calculate GNs? It is not helpful to disparage newbies when they ask about GN. We are buying light, and it is reasonable to ask how much we are getting.
Customer: I'd like a pound of strawberries.
Grocer: OK, here is a bag, excellent quality.
C: Is it a pound?
G: It is what many customers buy, great product.
C: But I need a pound. Could you weigh it for me?
G: You must be a newbie! Regular customers don't ask that. Besides, every scale is different. You can't go by a scale. Try it, it will most likely be fine.
GNs aren't calculated because it is hard. That isn't the newbie's fault.
The thing is, feel free to keep banging your head against GN. I’m not here to stop you. I’m just suggesting… to extend your food analogy… forgetting for a second how absurd it is given that strawberries are readily available in pint and quart containers, a proper strawberry dessert was never made amazing nor ruined if you didn’t know *exact weights* of strawberries - you just need enough to satisfy the end goal and can probably eyeball what’s needed Light is the same way.
At any rate, this video is fantastic and if you’re available to what it offers, should be really instructive and helpful:
jlafferty wrote:
The thing is, feel free to keep banging your head against GN. I’m not here to stop you. I’m just suggesting… to extend your food analogy… forgetting for a second how absurd it is given that strawberries are readily available in pint and quart containers, a proper strawberry dessert was never made amazing nor ruined if you didn’t know *exact weights* of strawberries - you just need enough to satisfy the end goal and can probably eyeball what’s needed Light is the same way.
I can see some validity to what you are saying, but the less-experienced are not knowledgeable enough in flash to go that way. Note that flash is more expensive than strawberries, so we are not going to do much experimenting with different units.
Are there qualitative flash rules of thumb? If I double the surface area of my softbox leaving all else the same, what should I expect about light brightness on the subject? (Phew, avoided saying GN.)
At any rate, this video is fantastic and if you’re available to what it offers, should be really instructive and helpful:
Absolutely there are flash rules of thumb. The biggest being that all manufacturers overstate or deliberately name their strobes in such a way to be confusing I think it’s the Alien Bee 800 that’s actually a 320ws light? Or maybe it’s their 640 line. Whatever the case, it’s best to err on the side of skepticism and being conservative WRT to their output estimates. Ironically, Godox, long considered the low end of lighting, is pretty spot on about their estimates. A 200ws Godox light puts out almost exactly half the light of their 400ws offerings. The surface area or distance calculations can be made (see: inverse square law) and you’re welcome to pursue that line of thought… just know that practically speaking there’s a lot of exceptions and quirks, so what I’m trying to impress upon you is that it’s best to start - early and often - experimenting with real world, practical workflow and learn as you go. Just be patient with yourself, make thorough observations, keep a lighting journal about your observations. I think you’ll find that if you keep things simple you’ll pick it up pretty quickly. For example, get a friend to sit in with no expectations and no pressure on yourself to perform. Point a light at them at full power, and see what it does. Overexposed? Either lower ISO, tighten aperture, or move the light further away. And just keep making those changes until you’re happy with what you see. Underexposed? Just do the opposite of each of those things. Once you do this a few times you’ll get a feel for the kinds of photos you’re drawn to. And then you’ll get a sense of how a given strobe behaves in that environment. You’ll know for example, that while a speedlight might have sufficient GN to expose your subject, it might not have sufficient power to keep pace with the natural flow of human interactions. Making a good photo… with people for sure… there are so many more dimensions to consider than mere strobe output. Anyway, like I said, get in there and start messing around. Keep it low pressure and fun. Stay curious. You’ll pick it up.
jlafferty wrote:
Another gem from Rob Hall and really on topic:
It is off topic.
The objective is not to measure flash power. The objective is to come up with a lighting scheme, flashes and modifiers that will give great results in a home studio, at lowest reasonable cost.
Archibald wrote:
Late to the thread, but I see that some are saying flash is easy, and others say it is hard. Well, I think it is very hard for most beginners. There are countless aspects to it that baffle folks including me. Here are some questions for those who find flash easy.
- For general portrait photography indoors, what should my first light modifier be for my keylight? Umbrella, softbox, something else?
- I have acquired a Godox AD200 and Godox trigger. Can I use my old Canon and Metz flashes with the Godox? And if so, how?
- How does the effective guide number vary with size of the modifier (for the same flash)?
- Does anybody use pulleys or a servo rig for aiming a hair light mounted on a ceiling?
- Am I going to have problems with pre-flash? ...Show more →
Regards your questions:
- shoot-through umbrella.
- Yes, but you won't like it. Fully manual, set at the flash not on the godox trigger/controller, and you would be buying a godox receiver to trigger them, if that would even work. Best to discard / sell.
- it goes down with the size of the modifier. Mostly. I would not think about GN with modifiers, it's best used with bare flash on-camera.
- someone does. Just no-one I know or have read about. With a useable modelling light (at least 100w equivalent) aiming is straighforward. It is a royal pain without a modelling light.
- not with studio strobes / work. You'll be in Manual mode, no pre-flashes. So your flashmeter (if you use one) will work.
Light is the same way.