Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
p.6 #1Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
lambers wrote:
I agree. Returning lenses due to minimal colour difference when all you need to do is move one or two sliders in Lightroom is crazy. Field curvature, on the other hand, is a showstopper and there are no sliders that will cure this evil with the Loxia 21.
What cures field curvature is stopping down and stopped down to f/5.6 or narrower the filed curvature of the Loxia 21 that is quite mild has never affected any of my shots.
Holger wrote
I think people here get crazy about minor differences, including color difference between the Loxia and Sony. I think it is minor and post processing can overcome that easily.What cures field curvature is stopping down and stopped down to f/5.6 or narrower the filed curvature of the Loxia 21 that is quite mild has never affected any of my shots.
Mar 22, 2020 at 07:22 AM
p.6 #2Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
I think it is important to mention the obvious. Colors can look slightly different for different people. Heck even left and right eyes can collect color information differently. So there are many factors that go into how the brain interprets the information collected by our eyes. Another know fact is age. Someone here that is 70 most likely is "seeing" colors slightly different than even a 50 year old. Luckily colors can be tweaked to our individual liking now a days so color is the least of my concerns about any lens. That is not to say I don't have favorite straight out of camera looks. But although it may seem like just the colors are different it is usually alot more than just colors that contribute to that "look" each of us like of certain lenses.
Mar 22, 2020 at 07:46 AM
p.6 #3Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Steve Spencer wrote:
I agree. Returning lenses due to minimal colour difference when all you need to do is move one or two sliders in Lightroom is crazy. Field curvature, on the other hand, is a showstopper and there are no sliders that will cure this evil with the Loxia 21.What cures field curvature is stopping down and stopped down to f/5.6 or narrower the filed curvature of the Loxia 21 that is quite mild has never affected any of my shots.
Yes, to some extent. One needs to learn the lens behaviour from practical experience to get a grip on that. This means that there is both some experimentation on part of the user to gain that experience and a learning curve involved.
E.g. the Sony 90/2.8 G has some field curvature for distant subjects, which has to be learnt.
lambers wrote
Holger wrote
I think people here get crazy about minor differences, including color difference between the Loxia and Sony. I think it is minor and post processing can overcome that easily.Yes, to some extent. One needs to learn the lens behaviour from practical experience to get a grip on that. This means that there is both some experimentation on part of the user to gain that experience and a learning curve involved.
E.g. the Sony 90/2.8 G has some field curvature for distant subjects, which has to be learnt.
Mar 22, 2020 at 09:41 AM
p.6 #4Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Holger wrote:
I personally don't return lenses if I don't keep the lens for preferential reasons. I only return when something is wrong--de-centered, already opened when it says it's new and such.
Fuji and Zeiss and Leica (and others) put a ton of emphasis on their color science and tonal signatures, etc. The Zeiss T* coatings and micro-contrast have been one of the main selling points and differentiators of Zeiss for the last 40 years. I guarantee you're not getting the G 20 to look like a Loxia 21 with moving one or two sliders. You can color correct, and such, which I have done, but you're not getting the same nuanced color--you're getting in the ballpark. For some that's good enough.
Much of the magic lies in all that tonal minutia and subtlety, which is interwoven with sharpness and CA and SA and other optical parameters. Fine tonal shifts and lighting are so dynamic and responses differ situationally for each camera. And aside from all that, a Loxia lens is just so much less work.
When I am shooting the G20, and looking at selling my GM 24 and Tamron 17-28, I have over 3k involved, so I don't think it's being too picky. Also, different shooters have different parameters that are important. I think the obsession over sharpness is absurd the last several years in photography. I honestly can't remember a photo I saw and said, wow, if only the photo were sharper it would have been better. Or, that's a great photo, but let's look at ultimate corner crops magnified to see how good it really is.
On the other hand, I see photos constantly where the renderings--color, bokeh, transitions, SA and CA correction or lack of, coma or flare due make or break a photo, or at least heavily impact my perception of it.
And like I've stated before, I don't think the G 20 is a bad lens by any means. It's really quite a good one. Just not one I'll be keeping.I still think people spend too much time with this "tonal subtleties" and minutia. They spend hours discussing A vs. B, weigh this against that. In a blind test I bet this very same people won't be able to distinguish the lenses they are discussing (unless we include characteristica like sun stars, for example). Post processing, the motive, the perspective, the composition are much more important.
If I need to spend a lot of time finding out differences, in my opinion that's time better spend on taking images and improving technique. Interestingly, I usually find people not doing this for a...Show more →
I respectfully disagree with you on several points, and agree on several. But I'll pass on continuing to discuss--we obviously have different ideas and priorities about shooting. I am glad though that we both have suitable options
nehemiahphoto wrote
Holger wrote
I think people here get crazy about minor differences, including color difference between the Loxia and Sony. I think it is minor and post processing can overcome that easily.Fuji and Zeiss and Leica (and others) put a ton of emphasis on their color science and tonal signatures, etc. The Zeiss T* coatings and micro-contrast have been one of the main selling points and differentiators of Zeiss for the last 40 years. I guarantee you're not getting the G 20 to look like a Loxia 21 with moving one or two sliders. You can color correct, and such, which I have done, but you're not getting the same nuanced color--you're getting in the ballpark. For some that's good enough.
Much of the magic lies in all that tonal minutia and subtlety, which is interwoven with sharpness and CA and SA and other optical parameters. Fine tonal shifts and lighting are so dynamic and responses differ situationally for each camera. And aside from all that, a Loxia lens is just so much less work.
When I am shooting the G20, and looking at selling my GM 24 and Tamron 17-28, I have over 3k involved, so I don't think it's being too picky. Also, different shooters have different parameters that are important. I think the obsession over sharpness is absurd the last several years in photography. I honestly can't remember a photo I saw and said, wow, if only the photo were sharper it would have been better. Or, that's a great photo, but let's look at ultimate corner crops magnified to see how good it really is.
On the other hand, I see photos constantly where the renderings--color, bokeh, transitions, SA and CA correction or lack of, coma or flare due make or break a photo, or at least heavily impact my perception of it.
And like I've stated before, I don't think the G 20 is a bad lens by any means. It's really quite a good one. Just not one I'll be keeping.
If I need to spend a lot of time finding out differences, in my opinion that's time better spend on taking images and improving technique. Interestingly, I usually find people not doing this for a...Show more →
I respectfully disagree with you on several points, and agree on several. But I'll pass on continuing to discuss--we obviously have different ideas and priorities about shooting. I am glad though that we both have suitable options
Mar 22, 2020 at 12:30 PM
p.6 #5Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Hi all.
The new Sony 20 looks like a great lens.
How is the Sony FE 20 f/1.8 regarding colorcast in the corners. The Loxia 21 is prone to this.
David
The new Sony 20 looks like a great lens.
How is the Sony FE 20 f/1.8 regarding colorcast in the corners. The Loxia 21 is prone to this.
David
Mar 25, 2020 at 11:23 AM
p.6 #6Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?
Mar 27, 2020 at 01:03 AM
p.6 #7Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
j.north wrote:
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/
Mar 27, 2020 at 02:40 AM
p.6 #8Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Although 14mm is quite different than 20mm, I would love to see a comparison of the 20G to the Sigma 14f1.8 Art. Particularly with astro work. The 14Art is considered a strong performer.
I have a 14Art but it is big and heavy in Sony mount, (or any mount). In the long run I wonder if I would have a better field kit with the 20G along with a Sigma14-24f2.8 or the rumored 12-24GM.
My bag runneth over with too many choices.
I have a 14Art but it is big and heavy in Sony mount, (or any mount). In the long run I wonder if I would have a better field kit with the 20G along with a Sigma14-24f2.8 or the rumored 12-24GM.
My bag runneth over with too many choices.
Mar 29, 2020 at 11:02 AM
p.6 #9Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
tzhang4284 wrote:
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/
A first initial test compares the Nikon 20/1.8S and the new Sony. The Sony still looks fantastic (and small compared to the Nikon).
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/
j.north wrote
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?A first initial test compares the Nikon 20/1.8S and the new Sony. The Sony still looks fantastic (and small compared to the Nikon).
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/
Mar 29, 2020 at 01:55 PM
p.6 #10Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Colour is problematic across populations and individuals, obviously. Too much to get into here, but age is often a big advantage, as are lifestyle and fitness and outdoor life experience. Some believe colour is learned, even genetic across populations. With mass urbanisation and pollution, lifestyle has changed so much - for the worse, for billions.
Many kids grow up in metal/glass dominant urban environs, do intensive close work, never focus at infinity and need eye correction sooner/more than their parents. It's been known for decades and they are moving into adult age groups en masse. The better you see colour, the more you see deficiencies and casts. In the natural environment, lives depended on this skill.
A-B tests work but you need hundreds of images to achieve representativeness, to even out extraneous effects like exposure and lighting. Look at lots of images for a candidate lens, if colour is critical to your work!
https://ourworldindata.org/urbanization
Many kids grow up in metal/glass dominant urban environs, do intensive close work, never focus at infinity and need eye correction sooner/more than their parents. It's been known for decades and they are moving into adult age groups en masse. The better you see colour, the more you see deficiencies and casts. In the natural environment, lives depended on this skill.
A-B tests work but you need hundreds of images to achieve representativeness, to even out extraneous effects like exposure and lighting. Look at lots of images for a candidate lens, if colour is critical to your work!
https://ourworldindata.org/urbanization
Mar 29, 2020 at 02:53 PM
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p.6 #11Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
philip_pj wrote:
Colour is problematic across populations and individuals, obviously. Too much to get into here, but age is often a big advantage, as are lifestyle and fitness and outdoor life experience. Some believe colour is learned, even genetic across populations. With mass urbanisation and pollution, lifestyle has changed so much - for the worse, for billions.
Many kids grow up in metal/glass dominant urban environs, do intensive close work, never focus at infinity and need eye correction sooner/more than their parents. It's been known for decades and they are moving into adult age groups en masse. The better you see colour,...Show more →
Color is the worst. Everyone sees it a little differently, but I don't fault that.
What does irk me, is everybody has lots of opinions, but nobody (or rarely if ever that I see) has crops or even tries to scientifically compare color.
Colour is problematic across populations and individuals, obviously. Too much to get into here, but age is often a big advantage, as are lifestyle and fitness and outdoor life experience. Some believe colour is learned, even genetic across populations. With mass urbanisation and pollution, lifestyle has changed so much - for the worse, for billions.
Many kids grow up in metal/glass dominant urban environs, do intensive close work, never focus at infinity and need eye correction sooner/more than their parents. It's been known for decades and they are moving into adult age groups en masse. The better you see colour,...Show more →
Color is the worst. Everyone sees it a little differently, but I don't fault that.
What does irk me, is everybody has lots of opinions, but nobody (or rarely if ever that I see) has crops or even tries to scientifically compare color.
Mar 29, 2020 at 03:27 PM
p.6 #12Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've just took this sample at f/11 for both Sony 20/1.8 and Loxia 21/2.8.
I was not intentionally looking for an angle that minimizes flare. I could move the lens around the sun and the results were the same. I am actually getting a bit more ghosting with the Loxia in many situations. I can't say this lens has bad flare resistance. Quite the opposite.
Hi Fred,
I know the two images were shot at same settings and processed the same but the Sony image just looks darker. Especially looking at the sky portion of what is dark and what is near blown out. Are the colors really different or is it that the aperture is not really accurate and a simple exposure adjustment would make them look more similar?
I have no dog ion this fight, as I sold my Loxia and only considering the 20mm for astro.
Bill
I've just took this sample at f/11 for both Sony 20/1.8 and Loxia 21/2.8.
I was not intentionally looking for an angle that minimizes flare. I could move the lens around the sun and the results were the same. I am actually getting a bit more ghosting with the Loxia in many situations. I can't say this lens has bad flare resistance. Quite the opposite.
Hi Fred,
I know the two images were shot at same settings and processed the same but the Sony image just looks darker. Especially looking at the sky portion of what is dark and what is near blown out. Are the colors really different or is it that the aperture is not really accurate and a simple exposure adjustment would make them look more similar?
I have no dog ion this fight, as I sold my Loxia and only considering the 20mm for astro.
Bill
Mar 29, 2020 at 04:01 PM
p.6 #13Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Holger wrote:
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/A first initial test compares the Nikon 20/1.8S and the new Sony. The Sony still looks fantastic (and small compared to the Nikon).
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/
The Nikon has the posh aesthetics of a schedule 40 bell ended pipe...
tzhang4284 wrote
j.north wrote
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/
The Nikon has the posh aesthetics of a schedule 40 bell ended pipe...
Mar 29, 2020 at 04:47 PM
p.6 #14Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Makes me glad I abandoned my beloved Nikon for Sony a few years ago. That 20mm from Nikon is ridiculously long for no apparent major optical advantage. I've always felt that my modern Nikon AF DSLR lenses were overly large and apparently the trend has continued with their Z mount. Apparently Sony has access to better optical designers that Nikon or made better managerial decisions on their 20mm design.
Mar 29, 2020 at 04:56 PM
p.6 #15Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
billsnature wrote:
I was not intentionally looking for an angle that minimizes flare. I could move the lens around the sun and the results were the same. I am actually getting a bit more ghosting with the Loxia in many situations. I can't say this lens has bad flare resistance. Quite the opposite.Hi Fred,
I know the two images were shot at same settings and processed the same but the Sony image just looks darker. Especially looking at the sky portion of what is dark and what is near blown out. Are the colors really different or is it that the aperture is not really accurate and a simple exposure adjustment would make them look more similar?
I have no dog ion this fight, as I sold my Loxia and only considering the 20mm for astro.
Bill
It's a difference in color rendering Bill. I see that in all my comparison samples. Like someone wrote, color can be tweaked in post, so for many shooters, it's not a major concern.
Fred Miranda wrote
I've just took this sample at f/11 for both Sony 20/1.8 and Loxia 21/2.8.I was not intentionally looking for an angle that minimizes flare. I could move the lens around the sun and the results were the same. I am actually getting a bit more ghosting with the Loxia in many situations. I can't say this lens has bad flare resistance. Quite the opposite.
I know the two images were shot at same settings and processed the same but the Sony image just looks darker. Especially looking at the sky portion of what is dark and what is near blown out. Are the colors really different or is it that the aperture is not really accurate and a simple exposure adjustment would make them look more similar?
I have no dog ion this fight, as I sold my Loxia and only considering the 20mm for astro.
Bill
It's a difference in color rendering Bill. I see that in all my comparison samples. Like someone wrote, color can be tweaked in post, so for many shooters, it's not a major concern.
Mar 29, 2020 at 05:26 PM
p.6 #16Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
vdo1 wrote:
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/A first initial test compares the Nikon 20/1.8S and the new Sony. The Sony still looks fantastic (and small compared to the Nikon).
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/The Nikon has the posh aesthetics of a schedule 40 bell ended pipe...
And I know what that looks like!
Holger wrote
tzhang4284 wrote
j.north wrote
Has anyone come across a comparison of the Sony 20 vs Batis 18 yet?https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/20mm-f-1-8-nikkor-s-initial-testing/
And I know what that looks like!
Mar 29, 2020 at 08:57 PM
p.6 #17Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
jhinkey wrote:
Makes me glad I abandoned my beloved Nikon for Sony a few years ago. That 20mm from Nikon is ridiculously long for no apparent major optical advantage. I've always felt that my modern Nikon AF DSLR lenses were overly large and apparently the trend has continued with their Z mount. Apparently Sony has access to better optical designers that Nikon or made better managerial decisions on their 20mm design.
Nikon did a great job with the the Z-mount 50/1.8 and 85/1.8. According to the fan-base touting the big mount-advantage, I expected the 20/1.8 to be "clearly superior", but to the contrary, if Jim K.'s result will be confirmed by Fred Miranda, the Sony is sharper in the center and a least as good in the corners with less vignetting. CAs are very very low, too and that in a clearly smaller package. I really like the lens so far.
Unfortunately weddings are postponed or cancelled at the moment to really put pressure on the lens ...
Makes me glad I abandoned my beloved Nikon for Sony a few years ago. That 20mm from Nikon is ridiculously long for no apparent major optical advantage. I've always felt that my modern Nikon AF DSLR lenses were overly large and apparently the trend has continued with their Z mount. Apparently Sony has access to better optical designers that Nikon or made better managerial decisions on their 20mm design.
Nikon did a great job with the the Z-mount 50/1.8 and 85/1.8. According to the fan-base touting the big mount-advantage, I expected the 20/1.8 to be "clearly superior", but to the contrary, if Jim K.'s result will be confirmed by Fred Miranda, the Sony is sharper in the center and a least as good in the corners with less vignetting. CAs are very very low, too and that in a clearly smaller package. I really like the lens so far.
Unfortunately weddings are postponed or cancelled at the moment to really put pressure on the lens ...
Mar 30, 2020 at 01:45 AM
p.6 #18Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
Holger wrote:
Nikon did a great job with the the Z-mount 50/1.8 and 85/1.8. According to the fan-base touting the big mount-advantage, I expected the 20/1.8 to be "clearly superior", but to the contrary, if Jim K.'s result will be confirmed by Fred Miranda, the Sony is sharper in the center and a least as good in the corners with less vignetting. CAs are very very low, too and that in a clearly smaller package. I really like the lens so far.
Unfortunately weddings are postponed or cancelled at the moment to really put pressure on the lens ...
It is hard to have a lens clearly superior to the Sony 20 f/1.8 G. It is a very nice lens in a nice small package. We know from the tests Fred has done so far that the Sony G is phenomenally sharp in the center. It beats the Loxia 21 there as well. It doesn't do too badly in the corners either and stopped down is really nice there as well. Keep in mind, however, that Jim Kasson's results are labelled preliminary. He does good tests, but this is just a test of sharpness at one focus distance. His pattern is to do quite a number of tests. I don't expect the final results to be much different, but let's see what else he comes up with. Even from this one test, however, both lenses clearly performed well. I think we will find that both lenses are quite nice additions to the market and will serve their customers well, but the Sony lens is smaller, even if the Nikon is not incredibly large.
jhinkey wrote
Makes me glad I abandoned my beloved Nikon for Sony a few years ago. That 20mm from Nikon is ridiculously long for no apparent major optical advantage. I've always felt that my modern Nikon AF DSLR lenses were overly large and apparently the trend has continued with their Z mount. Apparently Sony has access to better optical designers that Nikon or made better managerial decisions on their 20mm design.Unfortunately weddings are postponed or cancelled at the moment to really put pressure on the lens ...
It is hard to have a lens clearly superior to the Sony 20 f/1.8 G. It is a very nice lens in a nice small package. We know from the tests Fred has done so far that the Sony G is phenomenally sharp in the center. It beats the Loxia 21 there as well. It doesn't do too badly in the corners either and stopped down is really nice there as well. Keep in mind, however, that Jim Kasson's results are labelled preliminary. He does good tests, but this is just a test of sharpness at one focus distance. His pattern is to do quite a number of tests. I don't expect the final results to be much different, but let's see what else he comes up with. Even from this one test, however, both lenses clearly performed well. I think we will find that both lenses are quite nice additions to the market and will serve their customers well, but the Sony lens is smaller, even if the Nikon is not incredibly large.
Mar 30, 2020 at 05:33 AM
p.6 #19Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
It's been mentioned before, but I haven't seen a definitive answer.
How close in FOV/AOV is the Sony 20G to the Batis 18? Many have said that they felt that the Sony was wider than 20mm...
How close in FOV/AOV is the Sony 20G to the Batis 18? Many have said that they felt that the Sony was wider than 20mm...
Mar 30, 2020 at 06:52 AM
p.6 #20Sony FE 20mm f/1.8 G Versus Other Lenses
smpetty wrote:
It's been mentioned before, but I haven't seen a definitive answer.
How close in FOV/AOV is the Sony 20G to the Batis 18? Many have said that they felt that the Sony was wider than 20mm...
For this close focussing test anyway, there seems to be quite a noticeable difference:
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/
It's been mentioned before, but I haven't seen a definitive answer.
How close in FOV/AOV is the Sony 20G to the Batis 18? Many have said that they felt that the Sony was wider than 20mm...
For this close focussing test anyway, there seems to be quite a noticeable difference:
https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-20-1-8-vs-batis-18-2-8-siemens-star/
Mar 30, 2020 at 06:57 AM