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Archive 2020 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?

  
 
Holger
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p.2 #1 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


abdul10000 wrote:
I did a test using the A7R with the under exposure method discussed in this topic and exposed one picture at iso100 and the other at iso800. All other setting were the same including the aperture and shutter speed:

100% crop of iso100 vs iso800 @ same shutter and aperture
https://i.postimg.cc/Hs032GRr/100vs800.jpg

after pushing the iso100 exposure in ACR by +3ev the pictures look similar
https://i.postimg.cc/cCnkZrFh/100-3vs800.jpg

next I pushed iso100 by +4ev and iso800 by +1ev and the noise and image quality held better in iso800
https://i.postimg.cc/QN2nmJMy/100-4vs800-1.jpg

increasing +1ev on both pictures made the difference more dramatic
https://i.postimg.cc/VNvRmJ6t/100-5vs800-2.jpg

I see no advantage in the method of
...Show more

As usual, one needs to adjust to the specific situation.

There always are situations where you want to protect highlights and underexpose to prevent the sky from blowing out etc. Something I often do at weddings; Sony sensors allow it since they are are close to isoless in certain iso-ranges, see some comments here, too
https://www.dpreview.com/news/4302149407/sony-a7r-iii-dynamic-range-improved-nearly-matches-chart-topping-nikon-d850

or here
https://www.dpreview.com/news/3229755227/canon-5d-mark-iv-brings-dramatic-dynamic-range-improvements-to-the-5d-line?comment=5480098225

The 5div is improved compared to a 5diii.



Feb 11, 2020 at 09:24 AM
jon m
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p.2 #2 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


For me IQ is entirely subjective. I don't care at all about the science or engineering of it. If I viscerally like the photos taken by one camera more than another in general, then to me the IQ of that camera is preferable. Maybe "better" is not the right word when it comes to my decision-making.

When I was looking for a camera to replace a Leica Q, I spent a lot of time looking at images online in different places. Whenever I found one pleasing - which to me is a combination of color and light, possibly a bit of "punch" and clarity - I asked the photographer what camera they were using. Every single time someone was willing to tell me, it was a Sony AR7xxx. 100%. So for me it was an easy choice in the end.

I have a pro photographer friend who uses Nikon, and his pictures are stunning quality. Superb really. He makes his living at is and has a decent following. Clear, sharp, great color. But there's just something that doesn't sit right with me.

In the end if you told me the camera I picked for my IQ preference measured the worst in every category, I honestly wouldn't care at all.



Feb 11, 2020 at 10:15 AM
raminolta
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p.2 #3 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I normally don't do this kind of work but recently, I shot an indoor event using my A9 set to AWB all the in a mix of flash and indoor lights. All came out very nice and trusting my memory they are identical to what the actual scene was. I did however did some slight WB adjustment in ACR mainly because I thought that was what people probably liked to see. My adjustment was almost global for all the photos. Client was super happy with photos and had no complaint whatsoever about colors or wb.

In all other occasions with or without people in the scene, I rarely find any reason to rework the image colorwise. I am guessing you have got used to bad colors so much that the good colors from Sony cameras aren't what you are used to.



KarmaKramer wrote:
The editing is a buzzkill. I too find Sony images tend to need a lot of work. They clean up nice, just wish they came out looking better.
I shoot RAW less and less now and nobody notices.






Feb 11, 2020 at 10:29 PM
Geoff D F
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p.2 #4 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I switched to Sony after first using Olympus mirrorless cameras around 2013 and realising mirrorless and IBIS was the way to go - the WYSIWYG of the EVF meant never missing an exposure and being able to expose for any part of the frame without having to switch to point metering. IBIS meant some level of stabilisation with every lens, including primes. Mirrorless focus was also pretty much dead accurate always.

Canon at the time was showing no interest in developing mirrorless and not interested in IBIS, which to me is a game changer. As far as I know they still don't have this. Plus they had an annoying habit of always crippling their mid-tier bodies - the segment of the market I fell into.

Canon glass was attractive, but for about five or six years before I switched I always felt that other manufacturers were offering a lot more interesting stuff to the enthusiast segment of the market.

I'm not sure what Canon are doing now, but when I switched Sony was considered well ahead in sensor tech, a second hand A7 seemed like a good deal whereas upgrading my 5D to a 6D didn't appeal and the 5D markII was too big and expensive for what it offered.



Feb 11, 2020 at 11:00 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #5 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


'I am interested to know what does that 2.5 point of dynamic range difference at iso100 do in a real life scenario?'

1. DR matters so much that all the top DR cameras are in high end medium format cameras. You can check at the PTP site, click on the 'Maximum PDR' column header. The 5D3 up to a7r gain is over 2.7 stops at/near ISO 50 and the gap stays significant before narrowing at ISO 800, a span of around four stops at landscape ISO levels (and with IBIS, h/h becomes viable at lower ISOs).

2. A threshold comes into play for high SBR (subject brightness range) scenes, excluding specular highlights and acceptable black tones. It varies of course, but for me it's 10 in Bill Claff's scale. Less than 10 is a concern, often a shot lost to ugly compressed highlights, blocked resistant shadows. Even if rescuable, it will take more effort for less quality in the resulting image. Sony's big leap forward came with the 2012 a99v, which delivered a huge increase of 1.7 stops over the a900. BTW, the 2008 a900 still delivers 0.7 stops more DR than the 2015 5D3. Sony moved on DR from the very beginning.

3. With very high SBRs, you are forced to reduce exposure to just sneak highlights into the histogram without clipping (hence the risky fudge of using ETTR for RAW images, a time-honoured Canon move). With poor DR, the image data forms a concertina as it is compressed into a narrower band, with midtones and higher tone shadows jammed up at the bottom of the histo distribution.

4. As you can imagine, this greatly disrupts any attempt at representing the image faithfully to what you saw (this will be painfully familiar to anyone who ever used E6 transparencies). This often includes what attracted you to take the shot in the first place. So you try to lift midtones, dragging up some shadow data, but much of the bottom end remains stubbornly attached to the black point zone. It's painful at times.

5. With over 2.5 stops extra to play with, PLUS stronger recovery and very good (made to fix Canon) RC s/w, exposure losses are virtually a thing of the past. Images are more authentic, colour is improved greatly and colour has much better tonal gradation - enhancing apparent image depth. Exposure becomes more a matter of choice - some of us believe meter exposure reading (or near) is usually best for protecting colour at the high end of the tone range. And slip ups are forgiven much more often, when you over-expose. Exposure bracketing is less of a necessity.

6. High (macro) contrast lenses become viable again, many have gain a new lease on life, on Sonys. Lenses can now be designed to match sensor characteristics (DR is the big one) so the whole process chain from design to final image is improved. Older, less contrasty (by design) lenses made for print film usage (weddings etc.) are very satisfying on Sonys.

7. On image start up, you see a good fasimile of the scene, helping you to decide your overall tone range targets, colour work required etc. You have a far better chance of ending up with BOTH elegant highlight detail and realistic well-graded shadow detail, AND you can decide your contrast levels yourself. You can now save more marginal images, turn more B images into A images, the As are much better, and have better vision in the post process phase.

8. Because nothing illustrates all this like real images, here are two different types of images, in scenarios that needed shadow work and highlight work to give viewers a sound look at what I saw (I shoot a documentary style). They both pretty much filled up the (2013) a7r histogram, shot in very harsh light. I'll finish by saying the DR advantage assists even with less extreme SBR scenes, no downside to it.





face skin and clothes had to be lifted a lot and retain good colour, some detail







note cloud highlight tone spread and hillside shadow detail, separation of green hues




Feb 12, 2020 at 12:30 AM
KarmaKramer
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p.2 #6 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


Lol
No,some were definitely yellowish green, outside on a cloudy day using AutoWB.
Thanks for assuming though!

raminolta wrote:
I normally don't do this kind of work but recently, I shot an indoor event using my A9 set to AWB all the in a mix of flash and indoor lights. All came out very nice and trusting my memory they are identical to what the actual scene was. I did however did some slight WB adjustment in ACR mainly because I thought that was what people probably liked to see. My adjustment was almost global for all the photos. Client was super happy with photos and had no complaint whatsoever about colors or wb.

In all other occasions with or
...Show more



Feb 12, 2020 at 07:53 AM
LBJ2
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p.2 #7 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


KarmaKramer wrote:
Lol
No,some were definitely yellowish green, outside on a cloudy day using AutoWB.
Thanks for assuming though!



From my experience, I know the GM 85 to lean toward greenish/yellow. I think this is a known characteristic of this lens. Not good or bad, it is what it is.

Separately, AWB on any camera system IMO is risky business.



Feb 12, 2020 at 11:25 AM
LBJ2
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p.2 #8 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


philip_pj wrote:
'I am interested to know what does that 2.5 point of dynamic range difference at iso100 do in a real life scenario?'

1. DR matters so much that all the top DR cameras are in high end medium format cameras. You can check at the PTP site, click on the 'Maximum PDR' column header. The 5D3 up to a7r gain is over 2.7 stops at/near ISO 50 and the gap stays significant before narrowing at ISO 800, a span of around four stops at landscape ISO levels (and with IBIS, h/h becomes viable at lower ISOs).

2. A threshold comes
...Show more

The heart of the mater. Thank you for taking the time to write out these real-world details and post examples. It is what it is and Sony sensor tech seems to lead the pack as far as DR goes.

Let's see if Canon addresses their now infamous good-enough FF photography sensor tech in the rumored coming FF R5 R6 mirrorless cameras. If Canon does come up to at least market competitive sensor IQ with the allegedly spec'ed out R5/R6 cameras, this never ending debate will either come to an end or set the bar for a new DR race.



Feb 12, 2020 at 11:38 AM
SoundHound
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p.2 #9 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I pretty much shoot only in poor conditions at 6400 ISO for dance action in performance. As a system the A9 is better than CaNikon for these various reasons:

1. much better AF (all over the frame) with tracking eye/face AI.
2. ability to use super speed lenses wide open because of no micro AF error.
3. more uniform exposure. I’m looking at the image off of the sensor and can make fast corrections.
4. 20 fps-more-shots to choose from.
5. silent shutter-more venues to shoot and more shots to choose from.
6. 24mP-a bit more crop-ability verses the 18mP of that day.
7. three A9’s cost/weight take up the space of 2 D5/1DxII so I can buy/use 3 bodies/lenses-not 2.


Edited on Feb 14, 2020 at 08:36 AM · View previous versions



Feb 14, 2020 at 04:22 AM
Bob_S
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p.2 #10 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


The A9 has the best AF during video.
Unfortunately it has the worst colour options for video and no clean out

I unfortunately bet on Sony adding SLOG with a firmware update 3 years ago. I lost $10



Feb 14, 2020 at 04:38 AM
Bob_S
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p.2 #11 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?




raminolta wrote:
I normally don't do this kind of work but recently, I shot an indoor event using my A9 set to AWB all the in a mix of flash and indoor lights. All came out very nice and trusting my memory they are identical to what the actual scene was. I did however did some slight WB adjustment in ACR mainly because I thought that was what people probably liked to see. My adjustment was almost global for all the photos. Client was super happy with photos and had no complaint whatsoever about colors or wb.

In all other occasions with or
...Show more


A9 AWB is outrageously good.
It's never been bad for me.

It's the only Sony body I can use I'm AWB and rely on.



Feb 14, 2020 at 04:48 AM
esanchez
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p.2 #12 · How is Sony Image quality better than Canon?


I agree with everything you said.

scrappydog wrote:
Before buying the A7r2, I shot the 60D, 5D2, 5D3, and 7D2. The biggest differences for me were the results when shooting in poor conditions, lifting shadows, dynamic range, and accurate AF.

In great conditions, shots out of my Canon gear was often really nice but it was sometimes a mixed bag when shooting in poor conditions. Occasionally, it was a mixed bag in good conditions too. I recall shooting bird nests at a rookery in Florida on a clear, perfect (albeit hot) day with my Canon 5D3. All of my shots looked like garbage despite that they were perfectly
...Show more




Feb 14, 2020 at 11:52 AM
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