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Archive 2020 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?

  
 
MJP1
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p.1 #1 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


I'm wanting to try the Fuji rangefinder cameras. I think the Xpro cameras would be best for me since I like the rangefinder experience and I have a number of Leica M lenses...

I believe that I can use my Leica glass with these cameras with an adapter. I would also like to play with the native Fuji lenses to experience the AF. I had the Olympus and Panasonic MFT cameras and lenses, etc. But I became seduced by the M240 and the whole rangefinder photography.

My question would be what you would recommend between the XPro2 and XPro3 (and what you think about the 18-55 fuji lens to start out with. Naturally the XPro2 is available used at very attractive prices, yet the new XPro3 is appealing n it's own right. I've never had experience with the Fuji cameras but I read and see a lot of good reviews and praise online.

As an aside, I have used a Sigma DP camera (awesome images, horrible little camera), a Nikon DSLR and an Epson RD digital RF camera (wonderful camera) if they made them again with modern sensors and processors I'd get one in a heartbeat. Anyway, better stop digressing and go back to my question: XPro2 or XPro3? Or am I missing something else altogether?

Thanks!



Feb 06, 2020 at 05:08 PM
JadedWriter
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p.1 #2 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


Really not a fan of Fuji getting rid of that Dpad layout, was much easier to use without taking the camera away from your face to change stuff around. I'd really have to see what I can custom out on that camera.


Feb 06, 2020 at 09:44 PM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #3 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


For me, I can't stomach the rear screen setup of the Xpro3. Add in the much less functional OVF and the Xpro2 is going to be a better rangefinder experience.


Feb 06, 2020 at 09:51 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #4 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


MJP1 wrote:
I'm wanting to try the Fuji rangefinder cameras. I think the Xpro cameras would be best for me since I like the rangefinder experience and I have a number of Leica M lenses...

I believe that I can use my Leica glass with these cameras with an adapter. I would also like to play with the native Fuji lenses to experience the AF. I had the Olympus and Panasonic MFT cameras and lenses, etc. But I became seduced by the M240 and the whole rangefinder photography


Try one in the store. I just did. There is nothing rangefinder experience about these cameras apart from them having an optical viewfinder (in conjunction with evf). If you want to focus manually, a little evf screen appears in the bottom right corner which you use to focus.
I'd use the Fujis with Fuji AF lenses and get the benefit of lenses designed for the sensor as well as being able to use AF with the OVF which is pretty cool. Just like using a DSLR!

FYI I also have an M240 with a bunch of Leica lenses, as well as film Ms. I was very disappointed finding out how the Fuji focuses manually. Like you I believed that it was meant to be a rangefinder experience because many describe it that way. I guess they never used an RF camera.




Feb 06, 2020 at 11:23 PM
Nick Dakota
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p.1 #5 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


Yeah well I feel you. Asked myself those same questions. Now I'm sitting on a lot of gear trying to figure it out. Sometimes that's the best way. I disagree with the others that get worked up about it not being a rangefinder. Yes, it's not a true RF and it doesn't have a rangefinder focusing mechanism, but I believe it has its own type of a rangefinder experience. Without boring you with too many details, I'm probably gonna shoot MF with the XP2 and a few of my M mount lenses and the 23/2 Fujinon autofocus lens for when I want to use AF.

The struggle is real. This is my desk right now. Literally.






Edited on Feb 07, 2020 at 07:43 AM · View previous versions



Feb 07, 2020 at 12:05 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


MJP1 wrote:
I'm wanting to try the Fuji rangefinder cameras. I think the Xpro cameras would be best for me since I like the rangefinder experience and I have a number of Leica M lenses...

I believe that I can use my Leica glass with these cameras with an adapter. I would also like to play with the native Fuji lenses to experience the AF. I had the Olympus and Panasonic MFT cameras and lenses, etc. But I became seduced by the M240 and the whole rangefinder photography.

My question would be what you would recommend between the XPro2 and XPro3 (and what you
...Show more

If you are a fan of the 18-55, I'm not sure that the XPro design is the right one for you. The distinguishing feature of the XPro system is the hybrid viewfinder system that offers both OVF and EVF modes. In general zooms are large lenses and they block a portion (sometimes a large portion!) of the view through the OVF.

The OVF typically works best with relatively small prime lenses — the f/2 primes are really designed for this camera. I also use the 27mm f/2.8 with mine, and the 14mm f/2.8 works well (on the XPro2) if you don't use a large hood on it. The 35mm f/1.4 also is good with it.

If these sorts of lenses are not your cup of tea – and you prefer large aperture primes or you really want to use zooms — the XPro models don't really offer many advantages to you. You'd like be better off with the XT3 or XT4, since their DSLR-like design and electronic viewfinder work fine with larger lenses.

(The XPro models can work fine with the bigger lenses and zooms, but you'd almost certainly want to use the EVF... and there goes a primary advantage of the XPro models.)

BTW, the 18-55 is a fine lens that works better than you might expect... if you use the EVF.

I do think the XPro models produce an honest rangefinder-like experience, especially if you use the sorts of small primes that were traditionally used on such cameras.

As to the XPro2 versus XPro3 question. I've used the XPro2 since it was first released. I like this camera a lot — its flexibility is unparalleled. It works with small primes for street photography with the OVF, but it also works with large zooms with the EVF. My main purpose for the camera is street photography and it works quite well for that.

I'm unimpressed with the Xpro3. Actually, I'm disappointed in it. Yes, it provides a small sensor resolution increase. The rear screen offers a (somewhat limited) articulating ability. I regard the little fake film box end holder square screen as being a dumb gimmick, and lots of photographers are saying the same thing. (There were plenty of better ways this change could have been implemented, but Fujifilm's approach is inexplicably about the worst one imaginable.) In addition, as I understand it, the OVF no longer allows two levels of magnification, which helped with a wider range of focal lengths and the OVF.

I'm keeping my XPro2.

Dan

Edited on Feb 07, 2020 at 09:37 AM · View previous versions



Feb 07, 2020 at 12:20 AM
MJP1
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p.1 #7 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


gdanmitchell wrote:
If you are a fan on the 18-55, I'm not sure that the XPro design is the right one for you. The distinguishing feature of the XPro system is the hybrid viewfinder system that offers both OVF and EVF modes. In general zooms are large lenses and they block a portion (sometimes a large portion!) of the view through the OVF.

The OVF typically works best with relatively small prime lenses — the f/2 primes are really designed for this camera. I also use the 27mm f/2.8 with mine, and the 14mm f/2.8 works well (on the XPro2) if you don't use
...Show more

I guess I did not make myself clear enough in my original post. The reason I brought up the 18-55 lens is because it seemed like a simple and inexpensive way to use the AF features of the camera. I wish I could try one of the Xpro cameras in the store, but I don't think they have them locally (camera stores are quickly becoming extinct).

Should I get one of these XPro cameras, I'd expect to use them with my small, fast primes in MF mode. My question about this is about the efficacy of the focus peaking and/or the actual usability of the OVF/EFV in the XPro2 and XPro3. Like I said before, I've had a lot of experience with the MFT mirrorless cameras from Olympus and Panasonic with a large variety of their native prime and zoom lenses. Good as the MFT Olympus system is, using MF small primes was not a good experience. My last MFT camera was te OM1 and even that camera was not adequate for shooting with the Leica primes.

The newer offerings from Fuji (and others) claim much improved manual focusing with their EVF with focus peaking. I might be wasting my time looking outside of the Leica M system, but these XPro cameras appear very seductive in the ads, reviews, etc. It would be a lot of fun to have the flexibility of a long lens of a zoom lens (with AF) as well as the joy of shooting with my fast primes.

As far as the menus, adjustability, customizing ease and settings changing, programming, etc., etc., I don't care. I shoot with relatively few adjustments and I don't feel handicapped by the inability to instantaneously change settings. To be frank, I hate those Japanese menus with sub menus ad infinitum. To me photography is about composing, finding and capturing images. As long as the camera has excellent dynamic range, and great low light capability, I can do all my adjustments in PP after I'm back from the shooting. Of course, that's just me and I can understand how others might really like and effectively use the myriads of adjustments and settings of these modern cameras. Mostly I want to adjust shutter speed, aperture, ISO and focusing. Changing the EV is useful too, but even that I can do without and not lose the ability to capture images to my satisfaction.




Feb 07, 2020 at 08:54 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


^^^

I don't think these cameras are really designed with manual focusing in mind. The cameras and the lenses are optimized for use with AF... and the AF systems work quite well.

If your use is something like street photography — which I do quite a bit of with my Xpro2 system — I think that you might have better results by adapting to AF shooting — getting up to speed on different AF modes, on moving the AF point/area quickly, and so forth.

I have photographed long enough that I started on purely MF cameras and was pretty adept at shooting with them. I understand about hyperlocal distance manual focusing and focusing by feel on manual small cameras for street photography. But if you want to make high quality prints at the larger sizes more typical today, you are likely to get better results from AF, in my view.

The situation can be different if you are doing tripod-based photography. For that I still much prefer manual focus, since I can carefully select the primary focus plain/point and then zoom in close with DOF preview enabled to carefully check focus in any area of the frame. All of this works in that sort of photography since I'm not holding the camera and because I typically don't need to work as quick as I do when shooting street.

If you prefer to stay out of menus — I generally do, too, though I do find a few specific menu items to be worthwhile — one of the most attractive features of the Fujifilm ecosystem will be the physical controls for aperture, ISO, shutter speed, EC, and so forth. But even with those... I still rely on AF.

To me, the MF methods on the cameras simply slow me down when shooting street, and they don't improve my results. (Speed is often critical in this kind of shooting, at least for me.) And MF doesn't really improve things in any other way. While I could (and I have) turn off AF, switch my XPro2 to the display mode that shows the little corner area for MF, scroll around the image to find the right spot, carefully rock the focus ring until it is right, and then shoot...

... it is more accurate (!) and much faster to just use AF.

Dan



Feb 07, 2020 at 09:47 AM
Nick Dakota
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p.1 #9 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


MJP1 wrote:
I guess I did not make myself clear enough in my original post. The reason I brought up the 18-55 lens is because it seemed like a simple and inexpensive way to use the AF features of the camera. I wish I could try one of the Xpro cameras in the store, but I don't think they have them locally (camera stores are quickly becoming extinct).

Should I get one of these XPro cameras, I'd expect to use them with my small, fast primes in MF mode. My question about this is about the efficacy of the focus peaking and/or
...Show more

The menus do suck. I actually turn off most of the function buttons too.

I love my Leica. I love the simplicity and manual aspect to it all. I've been using a Leica and the GR as a pocket cam for a while now. It works great for me.

I wanted to see if the Fuji system could be a good option for me. With the X-Pro I get similar styling, but lighter. I actually don't mind manually focusing with the X-Pro. It is easier than I thought. It's great if I am working slow, or if I am doing zone focusing which is faster than any auto focus system. Plus I get to use great AF Fuji lenses too. I've been decided between the 2 and the 3 using in tandem lately. 90% sure I am going to sell the 3 and keep the 2. The 3 is an awesome camera, but it's improvements don't really translate to my genre. If you aren't ready to make a Leica move, you can always pick up a nice used XP2 in the $650 range and lets say a used voigtlander 35 1.4 for $500 w/adapter as an example and a Fuji 27mm pancake for $180. You are still under the XP3 price. If you like the way the adapted lenses work, you can start adding more as you go. Then one day in the future if you really want a Leica, you just need to find a nice used body for sale or you stay with Fuji and all is good. You can always sell M mount lenses without loss or even gain if bought right. Doesn't need to be m mount either, but you seem like you like a smaller setup, so that is why I say m mount. You can even find cool screw m42 mounted lenses too.






Feb 07, 2020 at 11:25 AM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #10 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


gdanmitchell wrote:
^^^

I don't think these cameras are really designed with manual focusing in mind. The cameras and the lenses are optimized for use with AF... and the AF systems work quite well.

If your use is something like street photography — which I do quite a bit of with my Xpro2 system — I think that you might have better results by adapting to AF shooting — getting up to speed on different AF modes, on moving the AF point/area quickly, and so forth.

I have photographed long enough that I started on purely MF cameras and was pretty adept at shooting with them. I
...Show more


I completely agree with Dan. These are great AF cameras that can be used with adapted lenses, but work so so much better with their native AF lenses. OVF with an AF lens on an Xpro is in a way the best of both worlds. You have the rf 'experience' due to the form factor but the camera does the focusing for you. And very accurately.
As well as my Leica I have an Oly PenF and Nikon Z7. I have adapters for all of them so I can play with all my various lenses. But after the novelty wore off it became really obvious that they all worked so much better with the lenses designed for them.



Feb 07, 2020 at 12:49 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


^^^

For me, the use of old-school cameras and old-school MF lenses seems more like a novelty than a photographic advantage, especially with subjects like street. (Reminder, I came from the "age of MF cameras.")

There is a kind of romance, I suppose, about using old "classic" lenses and shooting sort of like HCB shot. One of my sons collects such gear, and he even ended up with some of my classic film gear — and I get a nice, nostalgic feeling when I pick it up. But for me that approach doesn't translate into better photographs nor does it improve my ability to photograph the subjects that I'm after.

Honestly, the little Fujifilm primes are really fine lenses and the image quality they produce stands up just fine, even to the best of the old-school lenses — and better in quite a few cases. Plus they work well with the automatic features that often improve our ability to work in quickly changing situations.

Dan

Edited on Feb 08, 2020 at 02:18 PM · View previous versions



Feb 07, 2020 at 12:55 PM
MJP1
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p.1 #12 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


gdanmitchell wrote:
^^^

For me, the use of old-school cameras and old-school MF lenses seems more like a novelty that a photographic advantage, especially with subjects like street. (Reminder, I came from the "age of MF cameras.")


Not really a "novelty", by definition it's rather anachronistic .

There is a kind of romance, I suppose, about using old "classic" lenses and shooting sort of like HCB shot. One of my sons collect such gear, and he even ended up with some of my classic film gear — and I get a nice, nostalgic feeling when I pick it up. But for me that approach doesn't translate into better photographs nor does it improve my ability to photograph the subjects that I'm after.

Yes, I agree it's kind of a "romantic" thing, but really, shooting digital cameras with MF lenses is not an impediment to capturing excellent images. While it's true that AF will help you capture images which are nearly impossible to get with MF lenses, the rangefinder/manual focus system of photography is conducive to a more deliberate and careful, if you will, practice of the art. And for me, it definitely translated into better photographs in my own estimation.

Honestly, the little Fujifilm primes are really fine lenses and the image quality they produce stands up just fine, even to the best of the old-school lenses — and better in quite a few cases. Plus they work well with the automatic features that often improve our ability to work in quickly changing situations.

I've had experience with lots of old school lenses (lots of Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Konica, etc.) as well as a variety of MFT native primes and zooms as well as some of the Nikon AF lenses. One can get good images with any of them of course. I unfortunately have not yet had the chance to experience the Sony or Fuji modern primes yet but I'm sure they are quite good, excellent most probable. However, my Leica primes, both modern and vintage, are excellent and in no way impede me from capturing images most pleasing to my eyes (and people who comment on them).

The reason I started this thread is because I want to try the new Fuji cameras and the native lens(es) but also to retain the ability to use the camera body with my nice Leica and Voigtlander MF primes.




Feb 08, 2020 at 01:17 PM
jecottrell
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p.1 #13 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


Grab a used XP2 and 35 1.4 and see what you think. If you don't get the Fuji bug sell them and move on.

If you decide to move on, you'll probably be out less than the cost of a rental.



Feb 08, 2020 at 02:28 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #14 · X-pro2 or X-pro3?


I have an X-T30 but used to have an X-Pro 2/X-T2/X100F... I really wouldn’t want to shoot MF glass on the X-T30 EVF.

My main system is a Sony A7RIV. I find the high res (5.7M) EVF makes manual focusing much, much easier. It is a considerable improvement over the A7RIII (3.7M, same as XPro3/XT3). With some lenses, I can accurately focus without focus peaking (which I rarely find accurate across multiple manufacturers) or punching in to magnify.

You might consider looking at a higher res EVF camera than X-Pro 2 like the X-Pro 3, X-T3 or look elsewhere.

I think several people are successfully shooting the Panasonic S1 and S1R with Leica and other manual focus glass and I’ve seen some really positive comments about the super hi res EVF (5.7M on both I believe), focus peaking and other manual focusing aids of the Panasonic FF bodies... you might search for those threads and explore that option. I used to shoot the GH5 and thought focus peaking was very accurate and the various manual focusing aids very helpful, and I imagine they are even better on the FF bodies.

Buying a used XPro 2 seems like a smart option to try out the system at minimal cost if you resell.



Feb 08, 2020 at 04:02 PM





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