jacobjuul wrote:
Does anyone know if there are any practical differences between the different versions of the LLL 8e?
I can see they are on V8LC now. Any version I should be looking for on the used market?
I have 3 of them: bare brass, stainless steel and collapse version.
I don't think there is any tangible difference.
Im actually really interested in the APO after using the 11783 replica. Each new lens they make is a noticeable step up in quality. If their APO has a shorter focus ring throw it would be perfect since the Leica 35 apo feels like traversing the earth distance on that tiny lens.
Interview with the founder of LLL, you may find interesting.
Haha at 17m58s mark, Mr. Zhou mentions a "Hu Zhige", which is apparently a nickname Chinese viewers gave to Chris Niccolls of DPReview/PetaPixel (bearded bro).
I love its classic rendering based on the samples posted so far. It's not an f/1.5, but I actually prefer its rendering to the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton. The MTF graph suggests it should perform similarly to the 50mm f/2 SP II, with lower contrast wide open but the ability to resolve detail from center to corners with very little astigmatism.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I love its classic rendering based on the samples posted so far. It's not an f/1.5, but I actually prefer its rendering to the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton. The MTF graph suggests it should perform similarly to the 50mm f/2 SP II, with lower contrast wide open but the ability to resolve detail from center to corners with very little astigmatism.
The SP II has a rendering that I like quite a lot but still the flares it produces have made me use it less and less lately, some offering like the 1966 or the Z21 have flares and artifacts that really add something, the flares of the SP II were always its weakness to my eyes.
The blue cast is not really the issue since it can give a filmic look(a real one) to the images by introducing a blue tint to the shadows which is painterly/realistic compared to a "perfect" modern glass.
But the veils and flares are not something I like in the SP II.
I always wished for a new version of the Panchro from LLL because of that, I wish the 75mm renders differently in that regard, I may have to wait for the 75mm Z21 if not.
Sonnar-7 wrote:
The SP II has a rendering that I like quite a lot but still the flares it produces have made me use it less and less lately, some offering like the 1966 or the Z21 have flares and artifacts that really add something, the flares of the SP II were always its weakness to my eyes.
The blue cast is not really the issue since it can give a filmic look(a real one) to the images by introducing a blue tint to the shadows which is painterly/realistic compared to a "perfect" modern glass.
But the veils and flares are not something I like in the SP II.
I always wished for a new version of the Panchro from LLL because of that, I wish the 75mm renders differently in that regard, I may have to wait for the 75mm Z21 if not. ...Show more →
Are you referring to ghosting flare? That type of flare is mainly tied to the optical design itself, much more so than veiling flare, which is more coating related. Coatings and internal treatments can reduce the intensity a bit, but they will not fundamentally change the ghosting pattern without altering the optical design, and at that point it would essentially be a different lens. This is really just a rendering characteristic you personally don’t like, which is perfectly fair.
I also wouldn'tbe surprised if the new 75mm shows a similar type of behavior. I'm curious to see what it brings, and the early samples look encouraging.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Are you referring to ghosting flare? That type of flare is mainly tied to the optical design itself, much more so than veiling flare, which is more coating related. Coatings and internal treatments can reduce the intensity a bit, but they will not fundamentally change the ghosting pattern without altering the optical design, and at that point it would essentially be a different lens. This is really just a rendering characteristic you personally don’t like, which is perfectly fair.
I also wouldn'tbe surprised if the new 75mm shows a similar type of behavior. I'm curious to see what it brings, and the early samples look encouraging....Show more →
I was referring to the veiling flare, I don’t mind it in other lenses but it’s impacted by the blue cast, as is the ghosting flare. It gives a more desaturated cold look, I rarely manage to deal with it nicely as in other lenses.
I always wondered if some different coating could give it a warmer cast without altering the pattern.
I still sure do find the lens more than interesting and it’s a keeper, but I find the flares in it not as desirable as they can be in others.
The fact that they decline their lines in different focal lengths while keeping the same design langage is just great indeed.
Sonnar-7 wrote:
I was referring to the veiling flare, I don’t mind it in other lenses but it’s impacted by the blue cast, as is the ghosting flare. It gives a more desaturated cold look, I rarely manage to deal with it nicely as in other lenses.
I always wondered if some different coating could give it a warmer cast without altering the pattern.
I still sure do find the lens more than interesting and it’s a keeper, but I find the flares in it not as desirable as they can be in others.
The fact that they decline their lines in different focal lengths while keeping the same design langage is just great indeed. ...Show more →
I believe veiling flare is where improvements are most realistic, through better control of reflected light, such as multicoating, and it is also where the color cast can be adjusted. My sense is that LLL chose this coating level and color intentionally, although I'm not very familiar with the behavior of the older Cooke lenses they used as a reference. That said, once you start changing coatings, the overall image character changes as well, with higher contrast, bolder colors, and so on. At that point the entire look shifts, which may not be desirable for a recreation style lens.
I have several 50mm f/2 lenses with character, like the 50/2 Rigid and the 50/2 Elcan, so on paper the LLL 50/2 SP2 should feel redundant. It doesn't. The SP2 is a lens I can focus wide open on a subject near the corner and still get high levels of detail, even if contrast is not high. The other two simply don't do that and give me similar images.
If anything, the 50/2 Rigid and the 50/2 Elcan are the most redundant lenses I own.. I mainly keep the Elcan because of its compact design. What really separates the SP2 is the combination of performance, contrast behavior, and flare characteristics. That is what gives it a distinct look and makes me reach for it depending on what I'm shooting, instead of defaulting to the other two.
I forgot I also love the MS-Optics Petz 57mm f/2 but it's not a 50mm.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I believe veiling flare is where improvements are most realistic, through better control of reflected light, such as multicoating, and it is also where the color cast can be adjusted. My sense is that LLL chose this coating level and color intentionally, although I'm not very familiar with the behavior of the older Cooke lenses they used as a reference. That said, once you start changing coatings, the overall image character changes as well, with higher contrast, bolder colors, and so on. At that point the entire look shifts, which may not be desirable for a recreation style lens.
I have several 50mm f/2 lenses with character, like the 50/2 Rigid and the 50/2 Elcan, so on paper the LLL 50/2 SP2 should feel redundant. It doesn't. The SP2 is a lens I can focus wide open on a subject near the corner and still get high levels of detail, even if contrast is not high. The other two simply don't do that and give me similar images.
If anything, the 50/2 Rigid and the 50/2 Elcan are the most redundant lenses I own.. I mainly keep the Elcan because of its compact design. What really separates the SP2 is the combination of performance, contrast behavior, and flare characteristics. That is what gives it a distinct look and makes me reach for it depending on what I'm shooting, instead of defaulting to the other two.
I forgot I also love the MS-Optics Petz 57mm f/2 but it's not a 50mm. ...Show more →
I also own the Elcan and the LLL Rigid and indeed they feel very close, I’m very fond of my LLL lenses and never tried to sell any but the Elcan could have been the one to go being so similar to the Rigid(even in size, the Rigid is not a big lens).
But I did find a few differences that set them apart, the Rigid swirls and can glow a bit in the center, its halation on lights is fairly controlled also, the LLL Rigid can produce some neutral to warm flares with some slight and faint rainbow effects and rare orange ring artefacts.
The Elcan does not swirl and does not glow in the center but does off center, its halation on lights is more diffuse, it’s flares are more of the veil kind with some rare red ring artefacts. I feel the Elcan produces more of a 3D rendering effect, maybe the low element count plays part in it.
The Petz looks like a great lens, I need to quest for one.
I've got the 50 rigid. Hardly use it since getting the lux 50/1.4 pre asph v2. But I can't bring myself to get rid of it as I've got a great copy, CLA's last year by Ye, and there's something about both its physical form and image rendering that I love. I've also got a lux 50/1.4 asph (not sure which version but it doesn't have the built in hood) that I got before the pre asph lens, and I'll probably get rid of it as I don't see any use for it. Here's one with the 50 rigid
brick33308 wrote:
I've got the 50 rigid. Hardly use it since getting the lux 50/1.4 pre asph v2. But I can't bring myself to get rid of it as I've got a great copy, CLA's last year by Ye, and there's something about both its physical form and image rendering that I love. I've also got a lux 50/1.4 asph (not sure which version but it doesn't have the built in hood) that I got before the pre asph lens, and I'll probably get rid of it as I don't see any use for it. Here's one with the 50 rigid
Despite the welcome increase of manual lenses arrival on the market since Voigtlander dipped in some years back now and more so lately with all the new players, the Summilux pre-Asph V2 still has no competition in what it does.
brick33308 wrote:
I've got the 50 rigid. Hardly use it since getting the lux 50/1.4 pre asph v2. But I can't bring myself to get rid of it as I've got a great copy, CLA's last year by Ye, and there's something about both its physical form and image rendering that I love. I've also got a lux 50/1.4 asph (not sure which version but it doesn't have the built in hood) that I got before the pre asph lens, and I'll probably get rid of it as I don't see any use for it. Here's one with the 50 rigid
Sonnar-7 wrote:
Despite the welcome increase of manual lenses arrival on the market since Voigtlander dipped in some years back now and more so lately with all the new players, the Summilux pre-Asph V2 still has no competition in what it does.
I have often wondered why LLL has not released a 50mm f/1.4 pre-asph. It's a lens a lot of people genuinely love. My guess is that it's simply not rare enough. Good Leica copies are not too hard to find and still reasonably priced, so there isn't much incentive for a remake. It's similar to the Rigid. LLL remade it and I am sure it sold ok, but the original Leica Rigid is also easy to find at fair prices, which probably limits the appeal of a modern replica when the real thing is already within reach.
When people bring up the 50mm f/1.4 pre-asph "v2", I'm always curious what they find so special compared to the v3. Optically, they are the same design. The v3 is much lighter, focuses down to 0.7m, and in my experience is just as good. I've compared good copies of both and couldn't see any meaningful differences, and I actually prefer the flare behavior of the v3.
The aluminum black v3 is light, compact, has a built in hood, takes 46mm filters, and that closer focus is very useful. I do get the appeal of the v2 brass barrel and ring aesthetics, but beyond that, I'm not seeing a real advantage.
