p.19 #1 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
bjornthun wrote:
A 600/4 at ~3 kg is about the same weight as 500/4 lenses used to be a few years back. Canon and Sony(?) have both done very well here, making 600/4 lenses easier to use at least physically. This could in the longer run make 600/4 lenses more popular, maybe influencing their pricing and that of 500/4 lenses.
I still find it remarkable what Canon and Sony (?) have done with weight in the 400 and 600 lenses without using DO/PF. But the downside is still the physical size of a 600/4.
The ideal lens to me would be the 600 f/4 DO Canon showed off back in 2015....should be even lighter and is much shorter....unfortunately that seems to have been left on the drawing board and if it ever comes will likely be RF mount and will have to be mounted on some sub-standard camera.
Jun 07, 2019 at 09:04 AM
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p.19 #2 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
arbitrage wrote:
I still find it remarkable what Canon and Sony (?) have done with weight in the 400 and 600 lenses without using DO/PF. But the downside is still the physical size of a 600/4.
The ideal lens to me would be the 600 f/4 DO Canon showed off back in 2015....should be even lighter and is much shorter....unfortunately that seems to have been left on the drawing board and if it ever comes will likely be RF mount and will have to be mounted on some sub-standard camera.
I don't know I kind of expect that before too long we will have a Canon RF to Sony E-mount adapter, but perhaps that won't be possible.
p.19 #3 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
arbitrage wrote:
I still find it remarkable what Canon and Sony (?) have done with weight in the 400 and 600 lenses without using DO/PF. But the downside is still the physical size of a 600/4.
The ideal lens to me would be the 600 f/4 DO Canon showed off back in 2015....should be even lighter and is much shorter....unfortunately that seems to have been left on the drawing board and if it ever comes will likely be RF mount and will have to be mounted on some sub-standard camera.
Is there some tradeoff with or limitation to the DO/PF technology? Note how these lenses are one f-stop slower than the fastest alternatives in their respective focal lengths.
300/4 PF instead of 300/2.8
400/4 DO instead of 400/2.8
500/5.6 PF instead of 500/4
p.19 #4 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
arbitrage wrote:
Probably very questionable. The 2x on the 100-400GM is good but isn't reliable for BIF. This 200-600 is "only" a G lens so I can't see the 2x being a viable option...I think 1.4TC (if it even accepts the TCs) will be the most you would want to push this lens.
That’s good to know re birding.
At the long end the 200-600/5.6-6.3 + 1.4x TC becomes a 840mm f/9, only 2/3 of a stop better than f/11.
Jun 07, 2019 at 09:30 AM
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p.19 #5 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
I think this double announcement by Sony is very shrewd. It covers the wildlife shooting crowd quite nicely. At the high end a state of the art 600 f/4 that will no doubt be fantastic, but costs almost as much as a car. If you can't afford that, as most will not be able to do so, there is a very nice 200-600 zoom for a much more approachable price. This G lens follows nicely Sony's strategy of have a slower wider range G lens paired with a GM. The 100-400 GM is great, but there will be a place for the 200-600 as well. With regard to TCs my bet is that the zoom won't take TCs, but even if it does even the 1.4X will make it an f/9 lens at the long end and in everything but pretty bright light that will be challenging for both IQ and AF with anything but an A9 and make cropping difficult. So, the utility of TCs with a lens that slow is, IMO, pretty limited.
Now Sony has a more than credible set of lenses for wildlife shooters. That leaves additions to the sports lenses and with the Olympics next year we can be pretty sure Sony will shore up a nice set of lenses for sports too. The 400 f/2.8 is of course a great start, but I am sure we will see at least one and more likely 2 sports oriented lenses before the Olympics.
p.19 #6 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
LBJ2 wrote:
Like many others in the forum, having followed SAR for a few years now, I do think something will be announced tomorrow. 200-600 is of course at the top of the list, but I also think there may be word about the 500/600 F4.
At some point, I am also very interested to know the origin/circumstances of the leaked 200-600 prototype too 🧐
p.19 #7 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
bjornthun wrote:
Is there some tradeoff with or limitation to the DO/PF technology? Note how these lenses are one f-stop slower than the fastest alternatives in their respective focal lengths.
300/4 PF instead of 300/2.8
400/4 DO instead of 400/2.8
500/5.6 PF instead of 500/4
It is hinted in various interviews from both Canon and Nikon that making DO/PF elements is not easy and the bigger the element, the more difficult. When Canon released the original 400DO, there was rumoured to be only one person who could hand make them. It is possible that the reason we never saw a 600/4 DO from Canon is that Canon found it too difficult to make that large of an element. Nikon has a patent for a 600 f/5.6 PF which would have similar element to 400DOII so maybe that is the most we can hope for?
p.19 #9 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think this double announcement by Sony is very shrewd. It covers the wildlife shooting crowd quite nicely. At the high end a state of the art 600 f/4 that will no doubt be fantastic, but costs almost as much as a car. If you can't afford that, as most will not be able to do so, there is a very nice 200-600 zoom for a much more approachable price. This G lens follows nicely Sony's strategy of have a slower wider range G lens paired with a GM. The 100-400 GM is great, but there will be a place for the 200-600 as well. With regard to TCs my bet is that the zoom won't take TCs, but even if it does even the 1.4X will make it an f/9 lens at the long end and in everything but pretty bright light that will be challenging for both IQ and AF with anything but an A9 and make cropping difficult. So, the utility of TCs with a lens that slow is, IMO, pretty limited.
Now Sony has a more than credible set of lenses for wildlife shooters. That leaves additions to the sports lenses and with the Olympics next year we can be pretty sure Sony will shore up a nice set of lenses for sports too. The 400 f/2.8 is of course a great start, but I am sure we will see at least one and more likely 2 sports oriented lenses before the Olympics....Show more →
I don't see how Sony will get any other new pro telephotos out in time for the Olympics. I suspect the 600/4 is the only new lens they intend to have available for the Olympics. Remember the time frame for the 400/2.8? They announced it and then had it available about 6 months later. But before that, it was being secret-tested at the Winter Olympics and there were rumors and possible sightings for about 6 months before the official announcement in June 2018.
Since this sounds like a product that hasn't been seen in the wild yet, I can't see how they would be able to get it out much earlier than the Olympics anyway, and there is no time for any other lenses (except possibly pre-release, secret field tests as they did with the 400/2.8). I'm still dumbfounded they haven't put out a 300/2.8 (or at the very least, a 300/4) frankly, as it is so important for typical local photojournalist sporting events.
p.19 #10 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
mjm6 wrote:
I don't see how Sony will get any other new pro telephotos out in time for the Olympics. I suspect the 600/4 is the only new lens they intend to have available for the Olympics. Remember the time frame for the 400/2.8? They announced it and then had it available about 6 months later. But before that, it was being secret-tested at the Winter Olympics and there were rumors and possible sightings for about 6 months before the official announcement in June 2018.
Since this sounds like a product that hasn't been seen in the wild yet, I can't see how they would be able to get it out much earlier than the Olympics anyway, and there is no time for any other lenses (except possibly pre-release, secret field tests as they did with the 400/2.8). I'm still dumbfounded they haven't put out a 300/2.8 (or at the very least, a 300/4) frankly, as it is so important for typical local photojournalist sporting events.
I cannot imagine them not having a 300 2.8 in time for the Olympics and probably another lens as well.
I do not know why you think Sony has is not already working on a 300 2.8 and other. They can design and make more than one lens at a time. It is not like they are not going to have one so it is stupid to bring it out afterwards. It will happen.
p.19 #11 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
Sony is more than likely gearing itself up to make a splash at the Olympics in 2020. Yes, there will be a 300mm f/2.8 GM for those games. I am not sure about the 200mm f/2, however, although that lens lends itself really well for indoor gymnastics, among others. Time will tell, I guess.
p.19 #12 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
I think designing lenses is not Sony's problem; it is producing the finished product. These low volume specialized lenses need people with a set of skills. Unlike Canon and its automated assembly lines, Sony builds these lenses by hand and production is low. Cost is the only way they can lower volume to match production.
p.19 #13 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
mogul wrote:
I think designing lenses is not Sony's problem; it is producing the finished product. These low volume specialized lenses need people with a set of skills. Unlike Canon and its automated assembly lines, Sony builds these lenses by hand and production is low. Cost is the only way they can lower volume to match production.
Canon also hand assembles their super tele lenses. And, Sony also uses automated assembly lines for their lenses, except the GM 400mm lenses, at least so far. In that respect, they are not different from each other. You posted this before recently and someone rebutted your claim and provided you with a link or some links, documenting that. Apparently you didn't read his post or you forgot about that and I don't feel like digging for that.... . Anyway, Canon cameras, or more correctly, Canon sensor may not be up to snuff but most of their lenses, especially the super tele lenses are top notch. I am just saying and sorry for being blunt...
p.19 #14 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think this double announcement by Sony is very shrewd. It covers the wildlife shooting crowd quite nicely. At the high end a state of the art 600 f/4 that will no doubt be fantastic, but costs almost as much as a car. If you can't afford that, as most will not be able to do so, there is a very nice 200-600 zoom for a much more approachable price. This G lens follows nicely Sony's strategy of have a slower wider range G lens paired with a GM. The 100-400 GM is great, but there will be a place for the 200-600 as well. With regard to TCs my bet is that the zoom won't take TCs, but even if it does even the 1.4X will make it an f/9 lens at the long end and in everything but pretty bright light that will be challenging for both IQ and AF with anything but an A9 and make cropping difficult. So, the utility of TCs with a lens that slow is, IMO, pretty limited.
Now Sony has a more than credible set of lenses for wildlife shooters. That leaves additions to the sports lenses and with the Olympics next year we can be pretty sure Sony will shore up a nice set of lenses for sports too. The 400 f/2.8 is of course a great start, but I am sure we will see at least one and more likely 2 sports oriented lenses before the Olympics....Show more →
How is f9 much different than the universally used 100-400 eith 1.4tc at f8? A9 can af up to f16, so why would it struggle with f9?
p.19 #15 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
It matters for those that have an A7RIII, pdaf until f8 and then becomes contrast afterwards
shadow9d9 wrote:
How is f9 much different than the universally used 100-400 eith 1.4tc at f8? A9 can af up to f16, so why would it struggle with f9?
Jun 07, 2019 at 03:54 PM
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p.19 #16 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
shadow9d9 wrote:
How is f9 much different than the universally used 100-400 eith 1.4tc at f8? A9 can af up to f16, so why would it struggle with f9?
Of course, f/9 is not that different from f/8 (a third of a stop) and the A9 would handle that pretty well, but I am less sure about other cameras in anything but very good light. When the light gets challenging and you have an 840mm lens, getting fast shutter speeds for things that are moving or even for hand holding well is of course a challenge (that longer focal length will mean you need about half a stop more shutter speed to avoid camera shake when hand holding). So we aren't just talking about f/8 vs. f/9 then we are talking about 560mm at f/8 vs. 840mm at f/9 and if you think about standard handhold ability that is almost a whole stop you will need to turn up the ISO with the new lens to get the same handhold ability as the 100-400 with a 1.4X TC.
p.19 #17 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
In conclusion, a crop camera or a 42+mp camera may be just as good an alternative with the coming Sony 200-600/5.6-6.3, depending on the PDAF abilities of the camera. Much to consider for me.
p.19 #18 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
ChrisMak wrote:
A portable 600mm f4 (at ~3kg) is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for most birders I guess, except the ones with abundant financial resources
I hope to one day own one myself, and from next week on will have one more option
I don’t have a 600 f/4 and I’m taking literally thousands of bird photos each month with mostly a 500mm f/5.6 on a crop camera and a 560mm f/8 on FF. I occasionally use my Canon 500 f/4 on my Sony’s but less than 1% of the time.
p.19 #19 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
AGeoJO wrote:
Canon also hand assembles their super tele lenses. And, Sony also uses automated assembly lines for their lenses, except the GM 400mm lenses, at least so far. In that respect, they are not different from each other. You posted this before recently and someone rebutted your claim and provided you with a link or some links, documenting that. Apparently you didn't read his post or you forgot about that and I don't feel like digging for that.... . Anyway, Canon cameras, or more correctly, Canon sensor may not be up to snuff but most of their lenses, especially the super tele lenses are top notch. I am just saying and sorry for being blunt......Show more →
To be blunt, please show me that I am wrong or is this a typical internet argument by a Canon lens shooter?
p.19 #20 · Pre-order: Sony FE 200-600 f5.6-6.3 G OSS ($1,998)
AGeoJO wrote:
Canon also hand assembles their super tele lenses. And, Sony also uses automated assembly lines for their lenses, except the GM 400mm lenses, at least so far. In that respect, they are not different from each other. You posted this before recently and someone rebutted your claim and provided you with a link or some links, documenting that. Apparently you didn't read his post or you forgot about that and I don't feel like digging for that.... . Anyway, Canon cameras, or more correctly, Canon sensor may not be up to snuff but most of their lenses, especially the super tele lenses are top notch. I am just saying and sorry for being blunt......Show more →
I don’t know if this is the resource the other person linked to, but here‘s an article from Imaging Resource where they toured the Canon Utsunomiya Factory. This is where all Canon’s L lenses are manufactured. Including all their super telephotos.
. Anyway, Canon cameras, or more correctly, Canon sensor may not be up to snuff but most of their lenses, especially the super tele lenses are top notch. I am just saying and sorry for being blunt...