This topic is in the 2018 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2018Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
p.31 #1Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
genji wrote:
I personally like the steady increase in the level of scorn that this vaporware product is attracting.
This dumb product was dead the day it was announced. As stupid as Kodak's bit coin mining machine was.
I personally like the steady increase in the level of scorn that this vaporware product is attracting.
This dumb product was dead the day it was announced. As stupid as Kodak's bit coin mining machine was.
Jul 31, 2020 at 02:58 PM
p.31 #2Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I think there's room for something like the ZX1. I mean, an rx1 or a leica q model + an editing device takes up more room. So, for the person who just wants to bring a camera, a phone, a kindle, and some necessities on a long trip this is undoubtedly the best solution. However, no weather sealing, no stabilization, and a relatively low mfd compared to any digital fixed lens compact (rx1, the q, x100, aaaaaand gr iii all have significantly higher mfd/reproduction ratios) seems like a step backward in things that matter for a one and done camera/lens combo—especially for the Zeiss tax that was gonna be on this thing.
Jul 31, 2020 at 04:15 PM
p.31 #3Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
The form factor shake up in the industry happened in 2013. From that moment on, the trajectory towards the present configuration was clear. Most major markets are healthy in the fundamentals, even right now.
Zeiss never targeted the demographic of the phone-induced exodus. Beforehand, they happily sold to a slim group of enthusiasts for many decades, with low volume production runs almost all the way.
People may be holding these 'yesterday's men' in high esteem but not many comebacks succeed. How long before they become a distant memory in a fast-moving market? How long before: 'what have they done lately?' turns into 'yeah, I remember them' to finally become 'I though they made sunglasses'.
Google reveals:
'ZEISS brand is synonymous with innovation and supreme technology. About 200 million people wear eyeglass lenses made by ZEISS Vision Care.'
'Carl Zeiss Pty Ltd - Medical & Microscopy Products. Instruments for Ophthalmology, Surgical Instruments, Electron- and Ion Beam Microscopes, Laser ...'
In the eyes of this high tech mega-corporation, WE are yesterday's market. They moved on and never sent you the breakup text message. Cosina can do any, all and more of everything that Zeiss did for you these past 10 years. They already have.
Poor methodology notwithstanding, how many Zeiss lenses are in Marc Alhadeff's outstanding category for the a7rIV? None, while three (all APO) Voigtlanders made the select highest tier along with Sonys, Sigmas and Tamrons.
Zeiss never targeted the demographic of the phone-induced exodus. Beforehand, they happily sold to a slim group of enthusiasts for many decades, with low volume production runs almost all the way.
People may be holding these 'yesterday's men' in high esteem but not many comebacks succeed. How long before they become a distant memory in a fast-moving market? How long before: 'what have they done lately?' turns into 'yeah, I remember them' to finally become 'I though they made sunglasses'.
Google reveals:
'ZEISS brand is synonymous with innovation and supreme technology. About 200 million people wear eyeglass lenses made by ZEISS Vision Care.'
'Carl Zeiss Pty Ltd - Medical & Microscopy Products. Instruments for Ophthalmology, Surgical Instruments, Electron- and Ion Beam Microscopes, Laser ...'
In the eyes of this high tech mega-corporation, WE are yesterday's market. They moved on and never sent you the breakup text message. Cosina can do any, all and more of everything that Zeiss did for you these past 10 years. They already have.
Poor methodology notwithstanding, how many Zeiss lenses are in Marc Alhadeff's outstanding category for the a7rIV? None, while three (all APO) Voigtlanders made the select highest tier along with Sonys, Sigmas and Tamrons.
Jul 31, 2020 at 04:44 PM
p.31 #4Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
JVan_02 wrote:
I think there's room for something like the ZX1. I mean, an rx1 or a leica q model + an editing device takes up more room. So, for the person who just wants to bring a camera, a phone, a kindle, and some necessities on a long trip this is undoubtedly the best solution. However, no weather sealing, no stabilization, and a relatively low mfd compared to any digital fixed lens compact (rx1, the q, x100, aaaaaand gr iii all have significantly higher mfd/reproduction ratios) seems like a step backward in things that matter for a one and done camera/lens...Show more →
This has been fodder for jokes and picking on Zeiss two years now.
"If" it was released in Sept 2018 and "if" it was priced below $2,000 and if it worked as advertised some would have sold back then, but for $4,500 and coming into the fall of 2020?
Only if you are mad at your'e money.
I think there's room for something like the ZX1. I mean, an rx1 or a leica q model + an editing device takes up more room. So, for the person who just wants to bring a camera, a phone, a kindle, and some necessities on a long trip this is undoubtedly the best solution. However, no weather sealing, no stabilization, and a relatively low mfd compared to any digital fixed lens compact (rx1, the q, x100, aaaaaand gr iii all have significantly higher mfd/reproduction ratios) seems like a step backward in things that matter for a one and done camera/lens...Show more →
This has been fodder for jokes and picking on Zeiss two years now.
"If" it was released in Sept 2018 and "if" it was priced below $2,000 and if it worked as advertised some would have sold back then, but for $4,500 and coming into the fall of 2020?
Only if you are mad at your'e money.
Jul 31, 2020 at 04:52 PM
p.31 #5Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I'm just disappointed we never got to try that new Zeiss 35/2 lens.
Jul 31, 2020 at 05:01 PM
p.31 #6Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I'm not disagreeing the ZX1 is a bad value proposition. I think a camera like the ZX1 but better would have a place. It would probably be a high value item because of its niche market, but if it delivered on the level of the q2 with a 35-40 OIS lens and could cut out the need to bring an editing platform... why not? The q2 sells well enough that I've often heard it quoted to be Leica's best selling item. While the platform would probably be a little heavier due to the needed processing power and heat dissipation (esp. post all the outrage that the r5 overheats)... it'd still be significantly lighter than a camera + editing platform combo for people who truly wanted a one and done camera solution. Great stills + usable video + good flexibility via wider standard FL & good mfd... what's not to like?
Jul 31, 2020 at 05:07 PM
p.31 #7Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
But compact cameras are always a bad value proposition ? You get them for their special strengths, such as their central shutter and resulting flash possibilities, and their, well, compactness.
A compactness that, in this case, got killed here by adding a monitor thats still too small to comfortably edit images on, but blows up the camera size.
The Leica Q is priced competitively and in many regards better than the Sony RX1, so its not surprising that it sells relatively well. Unfortunately Leica didnt continued this trend with their SL system, which is much more expensive.
What impressed me the most about the Q2 though was that they didnt bother to fix ANY of the obvious issues of the original Q, but just added stuff like more Megapixels.
A compactness that, in this case, got killed here by adding a monitor thats still too small to comfortably edit images on, but blows up the camera size.
The Leica Q is priced competitively and in many regards better than the Sony RX1, so its not surprising that it sells relatively well. Unfortunately Leica didnt continued this trend with their SL system, which is much more expensive.
What impressed me the most about the Q2 though was that they didnt bother to fix ANY of the obvious issues of the original Q, but just added stuff like more Megapixels.
Jul 31, 2020 at 07:25 PM
p.31 #8Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Leica SL lenses are also very large and heavy for lenses with their speeds.
Jul 31, 2020 at 07:54 PM
p.31 #9Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
trstahly wrote:
This has been fodder for jokes and picking on Zeiss two years now.
"If" it was released in Sept 2018 and "if" it was priced below $2,000 and if it worked as advertised some would have sold back then, but for $4,500 and coming into the fall of 2020?
Only if you are mad at your'e money.
2 years? Try 4 years when it comes to Kodak's new Super8 camera. Announced in 2016 and still VAPORWARE.
https://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/blog/blog_post/?contentid=4295004933
JVan_02 wrote
I think there's room for something like the ZX1. I mean, an rx1 or a leica q model + an editing device takes up more room. So, for the person who just wants to bring a camera, a phone, a kindle, and some necessities on a long trip this is undoubtedly the best solution. However, no weather sealing, no stabilization, and a relatively low mfd compared to any digital fixed lens compact (rx1, the q, x100, aaaaaand gr iii all have significantly higher mfd/reproduction ratios) seems like a step backward in things that matter for a one and done camera/lens combo—especially for the Zeiss tax that was gonna be on this thing."If" it was released in Sept 2018 and "if" it was priced below $2,000 and if it worked as advertised some would have sold back then, but for $4,500 and coming into the fall of 2020?
Only if you are mad at your'e money.
2 years? Try 4 years when it comes to Kodak's new Super8 camera. Announced in 2016 and still VAPORWARE.
https://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/blog/blog_post/?contentid=4295004933
Aug 06, 2020 at 06:38 PM
p.31 #10Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??
Aug 06, 2020 at 07:39 PM
p.31 #11Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
Aug 06, 2020 at 07:53 PM
p.31 #12Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
DavidBM wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for...Show more →
It's a little disappointing though since they were developing great lenses for the E-mount. (Loxia 21, Loxia 25 and Loxia 85 especially). They are also missing the boat on the new mirrorless cameras from other brands. I'm sure they have their reasons.
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for...Show more →
It's a little disappointing though since they were developing great lenses for the E-mount. (Loxia 21, Loxia 25 and Loxia 85 especially). They are also missing the boat on the new mirrorless cameras from other brands. I'm sure they have their reasons.
Aug 06, 2020 at 08:35 PM
p.31 #13Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.It's a little disappointing though since they were developing great lenses for the E-mount. (Loxia 21, Loxia 25 and Loxia 85 especially). They are also missing the boat on the new mirrorless cameras from other brands. I'm sure they have their reasons.
Oh I agree; I'd love to have new lenses like the last three Loxias. An new 2/35 as good or better as the 25 would be especially welcome. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
I guess my pessimistic thought was this: those Loxias were by-products of building line scan lenses for the shorter flange. There are no more of those line scan lenses to convert AFAIK. But there are tons more Supreme Primes to convert to Otus but no sign of them being converted. So what are our hopes for Loxias (or the rumoured mirrorless Otus) given that there are no short flange FF lenses to convert in their lineup? I think now the in-house designed, manufactured by Cosina designs are only economic if they can do dual duty (maybe the economics are different for the mainly Tamron designed and Tamron manufactured models, I don't know. Those designs don't appear to come from Oberkochen technical glass, but there is no sign of more of those either.
DavidBM wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
Oh I agree; I'd love to have new lenses like the last three Loxias. An new 2/35 as good or better as the 25 would be especially welcome. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
I guess my pessimistic thought was this: those Loxias were by-products of building line scan lenses for the shorter flange. There are no more of those line scan lenses to convert AFAIK. But there are tons more Supreme Primes to convert to Otus but no sign of them being converted. So what are our hopes for Loxias (or the rumoured mirrorless Otus) given that there are no short flange FF lenses to convert in their lineup? I think now the in-house designed, manufactured by Cosina designs are only economic if they can do dual duty (maybe the economics are different for the mainly Tamron designed and Tamron manufactured models, I don't know. Those designs don't appear to come from Oberkochen technical glass, but there is no sign of more of those either.
Aug 06, 2020 at 09:39 PM
p.31 #14Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
DavidBM wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for...Show more →
I thought the Otus came first and Supreme Primes (newest Cine lenses) are developed afterwards (maybe you are mixing Master Primes and Supreme Primes). Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering lenses (most of them are just choosing single technical solutions from the larger development like wether the lens should be over- or undercorrected for nice bokeh). To me, it looks like the ZEISS has been working on 'an internal paradigm shift' where they shift from 'demonstration of physics prowess' to 'artistically beautiful' lenses. Now with the Supreme Primes lens collection pretty much ready, it looks to me, that they are sitting on a huge pile of systematic knowledge of rendering characteristics. Is ZEISS going to use this same knowledge for making still photography lenses? If they are, which I'm very much hoping for, they could offer something new that none of the other lens manufacturers yet have. This would call for a new lens line. (Disclaimer: I have no idea what they are actually doing all this is just gathered from the Lenspire articles they publish at the cinematography section.)
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for...Show more →
I thought the Otus came first and Supreme Primes (newest Cine lenses) are developed afterwards (maybe you are mixing Master Primes and Supreme Primes). Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering lenses (most of them are just choosing single technical solutions from the larger development like wether the lens should be over- or undercorrected for nice bokeh). To me, it looks like the ZEISS has been working on 'an internal paradigm shift' where they shift from 'demonstration of physics prowess' to 'artistically beautiful' lenses. Now with the Supreme Primes lens collection pretty much ready, it looks to me, that they are sitting on a huge pile of systematic knowledge of rendering characteristics. Is ZEISS going to use this same knowledge for making still photography lenses? If they are, which I'm very much hoping for, they could offer something new that none of the other lens manufacturers yet have. This would call for a new lens line. (Disclaimer: I have no idea what they are actually doing all this is just gathered from the Lenspire articles they publish at the cinematography section.)
Aug 07, 2020 at 01:56 AM
p.31 #15Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Kalainen wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.I thought the Otus came first and Supreme Primes (newest Cine lenses) are developed afterwards (maybe you are mixing Master Primes and Supreme Primes). Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares...Show more →
There are far more SPs than Otuses; I think the SPs were designed first - since most don’t have Otus equivalents. The one I’m most sure about is Otus 100; there was info about the Supreme Prime 100 t1.5 before the Otus (production may be a different matter) no I mean Supreme, not the master primes.
DavidBM wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
There are far more SPs than Otuses; I think the SPs were designed first - since most don’t have Otus equivalents. The one I’m most sure about is Otus 100; there was info about the Supreme Prime 100 t1.5 before the Otus (production may be a different matter) no I mean Supreme, not the master primes.
Aug 07, 2020 at 02:19 AM
p.31 #16Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Kalainen wrote:
Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering...Show more →
Arri & Zeiss may be heavily intertwined, when it comes to Cine optic research, but Arri claims that their signature prime series were developed by them & they went all in with the pleasant rendering stuff, flares, not bitingly sharp skin tones etc. I think if someone is willing to fork out 30-50.000$ for a cinema lens, then they expect more than just technological perfection.
Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering...Show more →
Arri & Zeiss may be heavily intertwined, when it comes to Cine optic research, but Arri claims that their signature prime series were developed by them & they went all in with the pleasant rendering stuff, flares, not bitingly sharp skin tones etc. I think if someone is willing to fork out 30-50.000$ for a cinema lens, then they expect more than just technological perfection.
Aug 07, 2020 at 02:34 AM
p.31 #17Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
DavidBM wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.I thought the Otus came first and Supreme Primes (newest Cine lenses) are developed afterwards (maybe you are mixing Master Primes and Supreme Primes). Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering lenses (most of them are just choosing single technical solutions from the larger development like wether the lens should be over- or undercorrected for nice bokeh). To me, it looks like the ZEISS has been working on 'an internal paradigm shift' where they shift from 'demonstration of physics prowess' to 'artistically beautiful' lenses. Now with the Supreme Primes lens collection pretty much ready, it looks to me, that they are sitting on a huge pile of systematic knowledge of rendering characteristics. Is ZEISS going to use this same knowledge for making still photography lenses? If they are, which I'm very much hoping for, they could offer something new that none of the other lens manufacturers yet have. This would call for a new lens line. (Disclaimer: I have no idea what they are actually doing all this is just gathered from the Lenspire articles they publish at the cinematography section.)There are far more SPs than Otuses; I think the SPs were designed first - since most don’t have Otus equivalents. The one I’m most sure about is Otus 100; there was info about the Supreme Prime 100 t1.5 before the Otus (production may be a different matter) no I mean Supreme, not the master primes.
Ah, ok. The Otus 100 might exception, difficult to tell, surely they would be using the latest knowledge developing it, but not sure if they would change the rendering choices too much in the middle of the family (consistency is important part the of all zeiss lens families, and the smooth focus falloff is one of the key aspects of the new Supreme Primes). The first Otus (55) was introduced already at 2013. And the Otus 85 was pretty much designed at the same time, but released later. The Otus 28 was released at the same time with the Loxia 21/2.8 (2015). The Supreme Primes were released 2018 (not all were available immediatly). But yeah, it's already 2020, so what's next for Zeiss?
Kalainen wrote
DavidBM wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
Ah, ok. The Otus 100 might exception, difficult to tell, surely they would be using the latest knowledge developing it, but not sure if they would change the rendering choices too much in the middle of the family (consistency is important part the of all zeiss lens families, and the smooth focus falloff is one of the key aspects of the new Supreme Primes). The first Otus (55) was introduced already at 2013. And the Otus 85 was pretty much designed at the same time, but released later. The Otus 28 was released at the same time with the Loxia 21/2.8 (2015). The Supreme Primes were released 2018 (not all were available immediatly). But yeah, it's already 2020, so what's next for Zeiss?
Aug 07, 2020 at 02:40 AM
p.31 #18Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Kalainen wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.I thought the Otus came first and Supreme Primes (newest Cine lenses) are developed afterwards (maybe you are mixing Master Primes and Supreme Primes). Actually if you follow the ZEISS cine news, you can notice that within couple of years they have been doing a lot of r&d regarding lens characteristics (perfect focus falloff, bokeh, flares, sharpness etc.) and this is what they offer with the Supreme Primes. The lens characteristics have been researched with the cinematography professionals and then translated to physics of lens design. For example the new radiance with their special blue t* -coatings offer aesthetic flares without loss of image quality. As far as I know no other lens manufacturer has offered such a systematic approach to provide pleasently rendering lenses (most of them are just choosing single technical solutions from the larger development like wether the lens should be over- or undercorrected for nice bokeh). To me, it looks like the ZEISS has been working on 'an internal paradigm shift' where they shift from 'demonstration of physics prowess' to 'artistically beautiful' lenses. Now with the Supreme Primes lens collection pretty much ready, it looks to me, that they are sitting on a huge pile of systematic knowledge of rendering characteristics. Is ZEISS going to use this same knowledge for making still photography lenses? If they are, which I'm very much hoping for, they could offer something new that none of the other lens manufacturers yet have. This would call for a new lens line. (Disclaimer: I have no idea what they are actually doing all this is just gathered from the Lenspire articles they publish at the cinematography section.)There are far more SPs than Otuses; I think the SPs were designed first - since most don’t have Otus equivalents. The one I’m most sure about is Otus 100; there was info about the Supreme Prime 100 t1.5 before the Otus (production may be a different matter) no I mean Supreme, not the master primes.Ah, ok. The Otus 100 might exception, difficult to tell, surely they would be using the latest knowledge developing it, but not sure if they would change the rendering choices too much in the middle of the family (consistency is important part the of all zeiss lens families, and the smooth focus falloff is one of the key aspects of the new Supreme Primes). The first Otus (55) was introduced already at 2013. And the Otus 85 was pretty much designed at the same time, but released later. The Otus 28 was released at the same time with the Loxia...Show more →
Yeah maybe the first couple of SPs where based on pre-existing Otus designs (it's very hard to know when the design work is done, and by which group at Oberkochen) but like I said, most SPs don't even have Otus equivalents (though all Otuses have SP equivalents), so for sure most SPs aren't based on Otuses.
DavidBM wrote
Kalainen wrote
DavidBM wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
Yeah maybe the first couple of SPs where based on pre-existing Otus designs (it's very hard to know when the design work is done, and by which group at Oberkochen) but like I said, most SPs don't even have Otus equivalents (though all Otuses have SP equivalents), so for sure most SPs aren't based on Otuses.
Aug 07, 2020 at 04:47 AM
p.31 #19Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Is Zeiss going to release another lens for photography??
I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.It's a little disappointing though since they were developing great lenses for the E-mount. (Loxia 21, Loxia 25 and Loxia 85 especially). They are also missing the boat on the new mirrorless cameras from other brands. I'm sure they have their reasons.
I think it’s just a lot easier for them to justify trying to sell a very expensive microscope or medical optic to a university or hospital once rather than however-many lenses in a much more competitive field to photographers. Considering they don’t even manufacture their own lenses for E-Mount (Cosina/Tamron) is pretty telling that the royalty income isn’t strong enough for them to spend R&D resources competing with the likes of Sigma. I also imagine that like Tamron (in which Sony is a major shareholder), Zeiss is restricted from selling their Batis/Loxia line to Canon/Nikon users. Considering the old Minolta team is still creating great GM lenses, I doubt there will be another “Zony” lens.
If I put myself in Carl’s shoes, I don’t blame “him” for concentrating his energy elsewhere.
DavidBM wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Forget about the ZX1...Is Zeiss going to release another lens for the E-mount??I guess photography hasn't been a big part of their business for quite a while.
The new generation Loxias were byproducts of their line scan range. And Otus a byproduct of the Supreme Prime range.
But after the Otus 1.4/100 even that stopped. There are supreme primes in 2/200, 1.4/135, 150/1.6, 1.4/25 , 1.4/29 (f-stops rather the quoted t-stops) which are showing no sign of making it to Otus. Maybe there is no perceived demand for long flange distance lenses for photography?
Maybe new Zeiss designed lenses for photography will depend on the demand for more short flange line scan lenses, or short flange cine lenses.
I think it’s just a lot easier for them to justify trying to sell a very expensive microscope or medical optic to a university or hospital once rather than however-many lenses in a much more competitive field to photographers. Considering they don’t even manufacture their own lenses for E-Mount (Cosina/Tamron) is pretty telling that the royalty income isn’t strong enough for them to spend R&D resources competing with the likes of Sigma. I also imagine that like Tamron (in which Sony is a major shareholder), Zeiss is restricted from selling their Batis/Loxia line to Canon/Nikon users. Considering the old Minolta team is still creating great GM lenses, I doubt there will be another “Zony” lens.
If I put myself in Carl’s shoes, I don’t blame “him” for concentrating his energy elsewhere.
Aug 07, 2020 at 09:12 AM
