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Archive 2018Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
p.4 #1Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sauseschritt wrote:
So reading this thread, many people here actually claim this is a great "concept".
How exactly is it a great concept to have an oversized compact camera that is downright optimized for being slippery ?
How exactly is it a great concept to be limited to a touch screen for most input operations ? That wont work with the eye to the viewfinder, will be problematic in cold conditions, and in general tends to be slower than having physical controls.
How exactly is it a great concept wanting to edit your images on a 4.x inch 720p monitor on the backside of your...Show more →
Let's not forget the new generation of photographers coming into the picture use their phones without any buttons or dials or SD slots...for them this camera will fit like a glove. Real innovative in products breaks barriers and makes people uncomfortable...exactly what this camera does.
Compare this camera to the Fuji 50R...which is pushing our comfort zones?
So reading this thread, many people here actually claim this is a great "concept".
How exactly is it a great concept to have an oversized compact camera that is downright optimized for being slippery ?
How exactly is it a great concept to be limited to a touch screen for most input operations ? That wont work with the eye to the viewfinder, will be problematic in cold conditions, and in general tends to be slower than having physical controls.
How exactly is it a great concept wanting to edit your images on a 4.x inch 720p monitor on the backside of your...Show more →
genji wrote
This camera is the final nail in the coffin for the ZeissLet's not forget the new generation of photographers coming into the picture use their phones without any buttons or dials or SD slots...for them this camera will fit like a glove. Real innovative in products breaks barriers and makes people uncomfortable...exactly what this camera does.
Compare this camera to the Fuji 50R...which is pushing our comfort zones?
Sep 28, 2018 at 06:53 AM
p.4 #2Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sauseschritt wrote:
So reading this thread, many people here actually claim this is a great "concept".
How exactly is it a great concept to have an oversized compact camera that is downright optimized for being slippery ?
How exactly is it a great concept to be limited to a touch screen for most input operations ? That wont work with the eye to the viewfinder, will be problematic in cold conditions, and in general tends to be slower than having physical controls.
How exactly is it a great concept wanting to edit your images on a 4.x inch 720p monitor on the backside of your...Show more →
You seem to mix up the concept and the implementation.
The concept is simplicity and flow with quality output.
The implementation is just trying to fulfill the concept, and maybe it will not.
So reading this thread, many people here actually claim this is a great "concept".
How exactly is it a great concept to have an oversized compact camera that is downright optimized for being slippery ?
How exactly is it a great concept to be limited to a touch screen for most input operations ? That wont work with the eye to the viewfinder, will be problematic in cold conditions, and in general tends to be slower than having physical controls.
How exactly is it a great concept wanting to edit your images on a 4.x inch 720p monitor on the backside of your...Show more →
genji wrote
This camera is the final nail in the coffin for the ZeissYou seem to mix up the concept and the implementation.
The concept is simplicity and flow with quality output.
The implementation is just trying to fulfill the concept, and maybe it will not.
Sep 28, 2018 at 07:21 AM
p.4 #3Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
chez wrote:
[...] Real innovative in products breaks barriers and makes people uncomfortable...exactly what this camera does.
Unfortunately for your line of argument, poor products ALSO break barriers and make people uncomfortable.
Especially people who know something about the area in question.
[...] Real innovative in products breaks barriers and makes people uncomfortable...exactly what this camera does.
Unfortunately for your line of argument, poor products ALSO break barriers and make people uncomfortable.
Especially people who know something about the area in question.
Sep 28, 2018 at 08:05 AM
p.4 #4Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
10 people have said that they would buy the camera!
Zeiss must be ecstatic!
Zeiss must be ecstatic!
Sep 28, 2018 at 08:22 AM
p.4 #5Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sauseschritt wrote:
Unfortunately for your line of argument, poor products ALSO break barriers and make people uncomfortable.
Especially people who know something about the area in question.
Really? I remember when the phones came out without a keyboard...how the hell can anyone use it without keys? The concept of talking to a little box sitting on the counter to change the music feels weird today..but tomorrow it will be the norm.
Innovation is just that...new concepts that change the way we do things. Many concepts don’t stick...but pave the way of the future.
I’d much rather see companies forge forward with out of the box thinking than look backwards to see how to place more dials onto our cameras.
chez wrote
[...] Real innovative in products breaks barriers and makes people uncomfortable...exactly what this camera does.Especially people who know something about the area in question.
Really? I remember when the phones came out without a keyboard...how the hell can anyone use it without keys? The concept of talking to a little box sitting on the counter to change the music feels weird today..but tomorrow it will be the norm.
Innovation is just that...new concepts that change the way we do things. Many concepts don’t stick...but pave the way of the future.
I’d much rather see companies forge forward with out of the box thinking than look backwards to see how to place more dials onto our cameras.
Sep 28, 2018 at 08:33 AM
p.4 #6Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
The Zeiss ZX1 has been added to the Camerasize website: https://camerasize.com/compact/#806,ha,f
Sep 28, 2018 at 08:43 AM
p.4 #7Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
EOS20 wrote:
The Zeiss ZX1 has been added to the Camerasize website: https://camerasize.com/compact/#806,ha,f
This is not a good sign:
https://camerasize.com/compare/#806,724
https://camerasize.com/compact/#806,724,ha,b
Rich
The Zeiss ZX1 has been added to the Camerasize website: https://camerasize.com/compact/#806,ha,f
This is not a good sign:
https://camerasize.com/compare/#806,724
https://camerasize.com/compact/#806,724,ha,b
Rich
Sep 28, 2018 at 08:56 AM
p.4 #8Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Yeah, it's huge. And the ergonomics look odd/unlikely to work for me well. And the hand grip in general strikes me as large/awkward.
I doubt I'll seriously consider this-- but I will ultimately wait to have it in my hands before making a final judgment.
What I do like is the streamlined look (size + hand grip aside), simplicity, and attempt to bring LR into the mix (I worry that the UI is going to be sluggish and had to work with, and UX lacking due to lack of physical rear controls). Something smaller, lighter, with a few more buttons-- nothing I'd love more than 3x fixed lens options at various FL (UW, 35mm, medium-tele) rather than cameras and lenses.
I think this will end up an oddity/lifestyle camera.
I doubt I'll seriously consider this-- but I will ultimately wait to have it in my hands before making a final judgment.
What I do like is the streamlined look (size + hand grip aside), simplicity, and attempt to bring LR into the mix (I worry that the UI is going to be sluggish and had to work with, and UX lacking due to lack of physical rear controls). Something smaller, lighter, with a few more buttons-- nothing I'd love more than 3x fixed lens options at various FL (UW, 35mm, medium-tele) rather than cameras and lenses.
I think this will end up an oddity/lifestyle camera.
Sep 28, 2018 at 09:36 AM
p.4 #9Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
realVivek wrote:
10 people have said that they would buy the camera!
Zeiss must be ecstatic!
Cut that to half when the price is announced...
10 people have said that they would buy the camera!
Zeiss must be ecstatic!
Cut that to half when the price is announced...
Sep 28, 2018 at 09:44 AM
p.4 #11Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
mcbroomf wrote:
No ibis kills it for me
That's surprising. Even the upcoming Ricoh GR III will have IBIS (3-axis). However, adding IBIS to the ZX1 would make it even heavier!
No ibis kills it for me
That's surprising. Even the upcoming Ricoh GR III will have IBIS (3-axis). However, adding IBIS to the ZX1 would make it even heavier!
Sep 28, 2018 at 10:02 AM
p.4 #12Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Running Android... imagine the battery life.
Sep 28, 2018 at 10:04 AM
p.4 #13Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I’d love to have the mark 3 version of this. Lol.
My gut inclines me to believe that this thing will be clunky but capable of producing amazing results.
I love the concept and while somewhat original, isn’t completely. The integrated image processing capabilities have been around for a bit and is a major reason I still maintain a Fuji kit. While obviously not as robust as an implementation of LR, it still works really well and is quick to get through. Hopefully the ZX1 will find a way to be slick in this regard.
Anyhow, if this thing ends up at a reasonable price and not being overly clunky, I’d definitely consider it.
My gut inclines me to believe that this thing will be clunky but capable of producing amazing results.
I love the concept and while somewhat original, isn’t completely. The integrated image processing capabilities have been around for a bit and is a major reason I still maintain a Fuji kit. While obviously not as robust as an implementation of LR, it still works really well and is quick to get through. Hopefully the ZX1 will find a way to be slick in this regard.
Anyhow, if this thing ends up at a reasonable price and not being overly clunky, I’d definitely consider it.
Sep 28, 2018 at 10:12 AM
p.4 #14Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
There must be a printer in there too, right?
Genji: not the final nail, it's the first attempt at a serious camera from Zeiss in donkey's years. Nails are popping out!
Despite numerous strange aspects, lots of unique ideas.
Why do we use any cards in 2018? We should all be streaming right to our editor of choice. 2 card slots? No slots, 500 gb internal and USB-C.
Basics will kill the originality: too big, one lens. Take some of those ideas and give us a Nikon Z like mount, minimal body with an eye to using classic glass, they would be heros. If the body is small and can use any mount, auto-focus not needed. It's the main reason I seldom use the RX1rii. A mechanical 35 on that camera would be so nice
Genji: not the final nail, it's the first attempt at a serious camera from Zeiss in donkey's years. Nails are popping out!
Despite numerous strange aspects, lots of unique ideas.
Why do we use any cards in 2018? We should all be streaming right to our editor of choice. 2 card slots? No slots, 500 gb internal and USB-C.
Basics will kill the originality: too big, one lens. Take some of those ideas and give us a Nikon Z like mount, minimal body with an eye to using classic glass, they would be heros. If the body is small and can use any mount, auto-focus not needed. It's the main reason I seldom use the RX1rii. A mechanical 35 on that camera would be so nice
Sep 28, 2018 at 11:40 PM
p.4 #15Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
uhoh7 wrote:
If the body is small and can use any mount, auto-focus not needed. It's the main reason I seldom use the RX1rii. A mechanical 35 on that camera would be so nice
It appears that you’re not aware of how to use the RX1's macro ring to manually and/or zone-focus the camera and prevent it from resetting the focus to infinity when it awakes from sleeping or is turned off and then on again.
Here's the procedure:
Step One: Set the macro ring to the “0.3m – infinity” position.
Step Two: Focus the lens at infinity using either manual focus or autofocus.
Step Three: Focus on the desired subject by slowly turning the macro ring from the “0.3m – infinity” position toward the “0.2m – 0.35m” position.
Step Four: Stop turning the macro ring whenever the desired subject is in focus. (Note: You can also use focus peaking and/or image magnification to help focus the lens, as they both work exactly the same as they do when focusing normally.)
The lens will now remain set at the focus distance you chose until the macro ring is rotated again to a new focus distance, regardless of whether the camera goes to sleep or is turned off and on again.
This is because the macro ring helical is purely mechanical, so the camera has no ability to rotate it. In turn, this effectively “fools” the camera’s electronics into believing they have reset the focus to infinity when, in fact, they have not. Instead, they have set the focus to infinity as modified by rotating the macro ring to a position in between the two marked focus ranges.
Better still, there is no noticeable slop in the macro ring focusing helical, so it feels very smooth when rotated between one’s fingers. And because it’s geared fairly highly, the subject really “pops” when the desired focus is reached, making it easy to fine-tune the focus point quite precisely (much more so, in my experience, than when using the manual focus [by wire] ring on the lens.)
When I first started focusing the lens via the macro ring, I was initially concerned that due to its floating element, focusing it this way might result in less than optimal image quality. But if it does, then I’m not able to see it. And it doesn’t seem to cause any harm to the lens, either, because neither of my RX1s has suffered any ill effects over the nearly three years that I have been focusing them this way.
Anyway, do try it, as you might be pleasantly surprised!
Oh, and as for the ZX1, while I vigorously applaud Zeiss for daring to think outside the conventional camera box, I'm afraid this camera is a big swing-and-a-miss so far as I'm concerned.
Edited on Sep 29, 2018 at 12:08 AM · View previous versions
If the body is small and can use any mount, auto-focus not needed. It's the main reason I seldom use the RX1rii. A mechanical 35 on that camera would be so nice
It appears that you’re not aware of how to use the RX1's macro ring to manually and/or zone-focus the camera and prevent it from resetting the focus to infinity when it awakes from sleeping or is turned off and then on again.
Here's the procedure:
Step One: Set the macro ring to the “0.3m – infinity” position.
Step Two: Focus the lens at infinity using either manual focus or autofocus.
Step Three: Focus on the desired subject by slowly turning the macro ring from the “0.3m – infinity” position toward the “0.2m – 0.35m” position.
Step Four: Stop turning the macro ring whenever the desired subject is in focus. (Note: You can also use focus peaking and/or image magnification to help focus the lens, as they both work exactly the same as they do when focusing normally.)
The lens will now remain set at the focus distance you chose until the macro ring is rotated again to a new focus distance, regardless of whether the camera goes to sleep or is turned off and on again.
This is because the macro ring helical is purely mechanical, so the camera has no ability to rotate it. In turn, this effectively “fools” the camera’s electronics into believing they have reset the focus to infinity when, in fact, they have not. Instead, they have set the focus to infinity as modified by rotating the macro ring to a position in between the two marked focus ranges.
Better still, there is no noticeable slop in the macro ring focusing helical, so it feels very smooth when rotated between one’s fingers. And because it’s geared fairly highly, the subject really “pops” when the desired focus is reached, making it easy to fine-tune the focus point quite precisely (much more so, in my experience, than when using the manual focus [by wire] ring on the lens.)
When I first started focusing the lens via the macro ring, I was initially concerned that due to its floating element, focusing it this way might result in less than optimal image quality. But if it does, then I’m not able to see it. And it doesn’t seem to cause any harm to the lens, either, because neither of my RX1s has suffered any ill effects over the nearly three years that I have been focusing them this way.
Anyway, do try it, as you might be pleasantly surprised!
Oh, and as for the ZX1, while I vigorously applaud Zeiss for daring to think outside the conventional camera box, I'm afraid this camera is a big swing-and-a-miss so far as I'm concerned.
Edited on Sep 29, 2018 at 12:08 AM · View previous versions
Sep 29, 2018 at 12:02 AM
p.4 #16Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
Sauseschritt wrote:
How exactly is it a great concept to put an expensive 500 GB SSD inside a camera, but no card slot ? I'd wager even two card slots would have been a lot cheaper than the 500 GB SSD,
Built-in flash can be faster and more reliable than any kind of card. More expensive, yes.
and you have to have the camera switched on and connected to your computer via cable to get to your images - with cards you can just get a card reader for any read speed you want, because if theres a faster connection you can just get a new card reader.
It's unclear what protocols the camera will support, but there are standard ones like SMB which could be used such that whenever the camera was in range of your home wifi network it just appeared in the Finder/Explorer on your computer.
Modern wifi supports 400Mb/s, compared to 1250Mb/s of USB 3, so it's not an order of magnitude difference. At 400Mb/s, a 40MB raw file can be transferred in 0.8s.
Edited on Sep 29, 2018 at 01:24 AM · View previous versions
How exactly is it a great concept to put an expensive 500 GB SSD inside a camera, but no card slot ? I'd wager even two card slots would have been a lot cheaper than the 500 GB SSD,
Built-in flash can be faster and more reliable than any kind of card. More expensive, yes.
and you have to have the camera switched on and connected to your computer via cable to get to your images - with cards you can just get a card reader for any read speed you want, because if theres a faster connection you can just get a new card reader.
It's unclear what protocols the camera will support, but there are standard ones like SMB which could be used such that whenever the camera was in range of your home wifi network it just appeared in the Finder/Explorer on your computer.
Modern wifi supports 400Mb/s, compared to 1250Mb/s of USB 3, so it's not an order of magnitude difference. At 400Mb/s, a 40MB raw file can be transferred in 0.8s.
Edited on Sep 29, 2018 at 01:24 AM · View previous versions
Sep 29, 2018 at 12:07 AM
p.4 #17Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
No new camera can lack IBIS and succeed from now on too, least of all a heavy and strangely shaped FLC. It has oddball looks and a joe the gadget man take on photography.
So they put on a great EVF, and have all this functionality on the rear TV screen with crap controls on top only. Most adults over 45 hate trying to read off little mini-TV screens (presbyopia), and everything looks like an app. 'By age 45 or so, when the eyes can focus no closer than a yard (a meter) or two away, almost everyone needs glasses to read a newspaper or thread a needle.' Guess which age cohort that has the money to buy a ZX1? The image shrinks when you open up the slide-in menus. It must be all of 2.5in wide.
Saw their blurb, they expect people to post process on the back screen as part of their 'innovative' idea. From an Eizo to a 4 inch LCD, add bright light, moisture/wind/dust. How good will your PP moves be doing that? Longer MFD than RX1 - 30cm vs 24cm, and no macro mode. Invasive menu overlays image in EVF, non-standard side widget placement. Images on the cloud? I think not.
So they put on a great EVF, and have all this functionality on the rear TV screen with crap controls on top only. Most adults over 45 hate trying to read off little mini-TV screens (presbyopia), and everything looks like an app. 'By age 45 or so, when the eyes can focus no closer than a yard (a meter) or two away, almost everyone needs glasses to read a newspaper or thread a needle.' Guess which age cohort that has the money to buy a ZX1? The image shrinks when you open up the slide-in menus. It must be all of 2.5in wide.
Saw their blurb, they expect people to post process on the back screen as part of their 'innovative' idea. From an Eizo to a 4 inch LCD, add bright light, moisture/wind/dust. How good will your PP moves be doing that? Longer MFD than RX1 - 30cm vs 24cm, and no macro mode. Invasive menu overlays image in EVF, non-standard side widget placement. Images on the cloud? I think not.
Sep 29, 2018 at 01:19 AM
p.4 #18Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I don't think the main point of having the built-in lightroom is to do heavy, full editing on the camera as if they were home at their computer. I think the real benefit is that it allows you to do the more basic lightroom editing, such as adjusting shadows and highlights, to quickly improve the image before posting it online, all immediately right from the camera. Its not something you are going to do with every photo and not going to replace full editing before making large prints.
Sep 29, 2018 at 01:40 AM
p.4 #19Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
brafman wrote:
I don't think the main point of having the built-in lightroom is to do heavy, full editing on the camera as if they were home at their computer. I think the real benefit is that it allows you to do the more basic lightroom editing, such as adjusting shadows and highlights, to quickly improve the image before posting it online, all immediately right from the camera. Its not something you are going to do with every photo and not going to replace full editing before making large prints.
I agree with your points. For me, in most cases, adjusting exposure is what I would need to do most often. The solution with no Exposure Compensation dial, and having to edit the image on the screen before sharing, is too complicated and would break my flow for instant sharing in between shooting. If I could adjust EC before capture with a separate dial, and the device was 4G connected, I could at least understand how the concept is supposed to work.
I don't think the main point of having the built-in lightroom is to do heavy, full editing on the camera as if they were home at their computer. I think the real benefit is that it allows you to do the more basic lightroom editing, such as adjusting shadows and highlights, to quickly improve the image before posting it online, all immediately right from the camera. Its not something you are going to do with every photo and not going to replace full editing before making large prints.
I agree with your points. For me, in most cases, adjusting exposure is what I would need to do most often. The solution with no Exposure Compensation dial, and having to edit the image on the screen before sharing, is too complicated and would break my flow for instant sharing in between shooting. If I could adjust EC before capture with a separate dial, and the device was 4G connected, I could at least understand how the concept is supposed to work.
Sep 29, 2018 at 01:46 AM
p.4 #20Are you getting the Zeiss ZX1?
I LOVE IT - Dorkiest camera ever and it's kinda bringing out the non-existent hipster in me. I'll probably never use LR on it.
Though a lot of factors will determine if I buy it:
1) Does it feel good in the hand also taking into consideration controls and shooting and weight.
2) Is the camera speedy in operation AF/Shots to review/blackout/EVF lag. basically does it get in the way of my shooting.
3) Do I like the output from not only the lens but the sensor.
Price is only becomes a strong consideration if those above issues start to creep into the decision making process negatively.
What already works against it for me:
1) No SD slot though 512gb but you never know when why you would need it. And also goes along with the dual card slot fear. I've had two SSD drives fail on me so they're not immune but I could warm up to the idea!
2) Battery life doesn't seem long based on the fact that Sony's always sucked with battery life and it's basically a Sony camera body with a battery smaller than the Z-type batteries.
3) Weight since it's heavier than the Q, my benchmark camera for max weight before I notice on long outings.
4) No IBIS or OIS.. Seems it makes a difference these days, don't know why as I use to be able to shoot without it.
5) No leaf shutter (AFAIK?).
6) Unknown about flash compatibility maybe it's Sony, maybe it isn't.
7) Bigger than I would have hoped by a large amount.
8) Sony sensor and thus far the only Sony made sensor I've liked sits in the X1D (and honestly a 5second startup was needed to load a reference file that makes sensor colours bearable in the Hasselblad).
Hahaha thinking rationally I'd rather wait and see what Leica has in store with their Q2.
Though a lot of factors will determine if I buy it:
1) Does it feel good in the hand also taking into consideration controls and shooting and weight.
2) Is the camera speedy in operation AF/Shots to review/blackout/EVF lag. basically does it get in the way of my shooting.
3) Do I like the output from not only the lens but the sensor.
Price is only becomes a strong consideration if those above issues start to creep into the decision making process negatively.
What already works against it for me:
1) No SD slot though 512gb but you never know when why you would need it. And also goes along with the dual card slot fear. I've had two SSD drives fail on me so they're not immune but I could warm up to the idea!
2) Battery life doesn't seem long based on the fact that Sony's always sucked with battery life and it's basically a Sony camera body with a battery smaller than the Z-type batteries.
3) Weight since it's heavier than the Q, my benchmark camera for max weight before I notice on long outings.
4) No IBIS or OIS.. Seems it makes a difference these days, don't know why as I use to be able to shoot without it.
5) No leaf shutter (AFAIK?).
6) Unknown about flash compatibility maybe it's Sony, maybe it isn't.
7) Bigger than I would have hoped by a large amount.
8) Sony sensor and thus far the only Sony made sensor I've liked sits in the X1D (and honestly a 5second startup was needed to load a reference file that makes sensor colours bearable in the Hasselblad).
Hahaha thinking rationally I'd rather wait and see what Leica has in store with their Q2.
Sep 29, 2018 at 03:17 AM