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Archive 2018 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?

  
 
jhinkey
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p.2 #1 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


AF, high resolution, big aperture, low(er) weight/size . . . pick any 3 and expect to pay for those 3.

Want to satisfy that 40+MP sensor? One of those three picks is already taken.



Sep 17, 2018 at 06:47 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.2 #2 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


stevesanacore wrote:
I'm looking forward to the expected Sony 135 1.8. I hope it's more the size of the Canon L than the huge Sigma.


Not gonna happen. Just look at the old Sony/Zeiss 135mm f1.8, it's a beast* and has screw drive. With new focus motors, generally requiring larger barrels and more complex designs, it's likely to be even bigger than that.

* a wonderful, lovable beast, though.



Sep 17, 2018 at 06:52 PM
tdlavigne
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p.2 #3 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I always figured they were getting so big in order to keep up with the demands of the sensors. Tiny 50mm f1.4's were ok with Canon/Nikon back when they were 12mp. When I tried using some of my older lenses (circa 80's/90's) on my D800e they didn't perform very well. I dunno, that'd be my guess.

Plus in 2018 with the internet and all the measure-baters shooting charts and brick walls, manufacturers probably realize that optical excellence is something people want, even if it isn't necessarily noticeable in real world usage. Release a lens that is small, compact, and slightly soft in the corners and you'll have a dozen sights that post MTF charts poo-pooing it, 50 youtubers (with several million subscribers) saying it's garbage, and thousands (at least) of people on forums asking "is this sharp enough?" every day in posts.

They probably realize that they have to make these complex (and heavy) designs just to avoid any complaints of mailing it in.



Sep 17, 2018 at 08:02 PM
kshimz
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p.2 #4 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


philip_pj wrote:
'The high demand for faster glass, better optics, stabilization, faster and quieter AF motors, weather sealing, built with more durable materials, etc.'

Recent history (but still back past the working lives of many) show that many makers managed to produce fabulous optics satisfying all these lens technical specifications. So exactly who is demanding say f1.2/f1.4 lenses that all 'need' to be 1000-1300 grams in weight, far in excess heavier than the svelte CV 40/50 and shorter Loxia/all Batis releases?

I haven't read it, perhaps provide links please. Imagine the dealer feedback sessions: 'Boss, the buyers like the FE 85/1.8 but they
...Show more

I'm sorry, but you're comparing apples to oranges. The OP first mentioned FE and GM lenses and why they're bigger and heavier. CV and Loxia are MF lenses which in most cases are much smaller and lighter. Batis lenses are much lighter because of the build material and the aperture.

I used to shoot a lot of weddings, so manual focus lenses were never of interest to me. What I looked for, was fast glass (f/1.4 - f/2.8), accurate AF, durability, reliability, sharpness, and rendering. I've come from Canon, Nikon, and now to Sony. With the amazing AF performance of these cameras, I want to take advantage of these features, so I still don't want MF lenses. I no longer shoot weddings, but I still love my GM and f/1.4 lenses.

Take Sigma for instance, look how much success and interest they're getting from their Art series lenses. They're all built like a tank, amazing quality, priced very competitively, but much bigger and heavier than their competition. Like I mentioned, this is their compromise. They wanted to deliver fantastic quality that a large group of people wanted and at a more affordable cost. Another example from the Sigma's new 105mm f/1.4, I had the Nikon version and yes it suffered from the "Cat Eye" effect, which was caused from vignetting by the front element. Sigma corrected this effect, but they knew they had to increase the front element size, which of course is 105mm. They were also able to price it $500 under Nikon's. I also preferred the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art over Canon's f/1.2L (I owned 2 copies and both were really soft wide open, and usable at f/1.6). I understand that some peopler swear by this lens and their copies are tack sharp, I did not have this experience. I also owned the Nikon 58mm f/1.4G, and quickly returned it and bought the Sigma 50 Art again. I didn't mind the extra size and weight since the quality was there and it was tack sharp wide open, which I was looking for in a lens.

Batis lenses are insanely lightweight, but they're also slower lenses, which is why they were able to cut down on the weight. But, notice how they priced these lenses, not exactly cheap. I have the Batis 18 and I love it! I honestly just don't like the rubber ring since it attracts dust, making it harder to clean.





Sep 17, 2018 at 08:13 PM
hiepphotog
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p.2 #5 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


It's definitely not for the lack of trying. Leica is the master of miniaturizing high performance lenses. We just need to look at their SL mirrorless AF lenses to see it's not an easy thing to do. Maybe one can blame Karbe for some of that since he's into making lens with less CA and more sharpness (e.g. Noctilux 75). Most Leica M users don't pixel peep as much, they don't even know how to test a lens properly .

With that said, with the open mount on Sony system, I believe only us Sony shooters would have the choices of having both big and small lenses. CV and Loxia lines are a good start for small MF. Batis will be for the light weight AF crowds. Then there are Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina with everything in between. I just hope Sony takes its time to release a set of decent f/2 (f/1.8) lenses and the rest for high-end.



Sep 17, 2018 at 08:46 PM
Todd
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p.2 #6 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Lol, scared of a little extra weight? If you want light, buy a point and shoot. Personally I like the big lenses. So many people think mirrorless is supposed to be small all the way around... well it’s not. It’s just a camera without a mirror.

nandadevieast wrote:
Shouldn’t it be other way round? Cameras getting bigger rather than the lenses. I wonder who buys them ! I hate it.

FE is better than GM, Sony.




Sep 17, 2018 at 09:03 PM
nandadevieast
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p.2 #7 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Surprisingly, Sony zooms are smaller than you would think.


Sep 17, 2018 at 10:56 PM
stevesanacore
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p.2 #8 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Todd wrote:
Lol, scared of a little extra weight? If you want light, buy a point and shoot. Personally I like the big lenses. So many people think mirrorless is supposed to be small all the way around... well it’s not. It’s just a camera without a mirror.



I don't mind big heavy lenses on my day jobs when I need 1.2 or 1.4 for effect, but for travel, small lenses are much more practical. With small lenses like Loxia, the Sony is real an alternative to M4/3 camera systems without giving up the high quality of full frame. That is very important to many users as travel photography is very popular on these forums. Maybe there will be a 135 and or 180 Loxia in the future



Sep 18, 2018 at 07:05 AM
Chris_88
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p.2 #9 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


philip_pj wrote:
'The high demand for faster glass, better optics, stabilization, faster and quieter AF motors, weather sealing, built with more durable materials, etc.'

Recent history (but still back past the working lives of many) show that many makers managed to produce fabulous optics satisfying all these lens technical specifications. So exactly who is demanding say f1.2/f1.4 lenses that all 'need' to be 1000-1300 grams in weight, far in excess heavier than the svelte CV 40/50 and shorter Loxia/all Batis releases?

I haven't read it, perhaps provide links please. Imagine the dealer feedback sessions: 'Boss, the buyers like the FE 85/1.8 but they
...Show more

Philip, I don't disagree with your assessment of recent Zeiss glass, I love my Loxias, esp. the 21. At the same time, I didn't make up what I wrote on the previous page. Sony reps and engineers made it clear that they were merely responding to demand for fast glass, esp. from pros, in several interviews with Japanese media outlets. I think I translated parts of one such interview in the old FE 50 1.4 thread.

Now, we can debate whether that's just marketing talk, but it would be pretty stupid for them to keep building unpopular lenses.

Of course, we don't have sufficient data, but at least here in Japan it took quite a while until the 24-70 GM was readily available in stores, and used prices for the 100-400 GM go up rather than down, suggesting to me that there has been significant demand for at least those two lenses. Granted, when those lenses were released we didn't have a lot of options, as the 24-105 or Tammy 28-75 hadn't been released yet. However, I think we should be careful to link preferences of many FM regulars to those of Sony or for that matter Canon or Nikon's target audiences.

I guess, we can debate who started this trend, but to some degree, everybody is guilty as charged, whether it's Sony, Canon, Nikon, Leica or Zeiss. The Leica SL Lux 50 weighs more than 1kg and comes with an 82mm filter thread. In comparison, the Sony FE with its 72mm filter thread and 300g less weight is hardly a beast. Can you imagine how large an AF Otus would be ? In the end, it's about choice. As long as makers produce more compact lenses to go along the "no holds barred" glass I really don't mind.



Sep 18, 2018 at 07:40 AM
chez
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p.2 #10 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


stevesanacore wrote:
I don't mind big heavy lenses on my day jobs when I need 1.2 or 1.4 for effect, but for travel, small lenses are much more practical. With small lenses like Loxia, the Sony is real an alternative to M4/3 camera systems without giving up the high quality of full frame. That is very important to many users as travel photography is very popular on these forums. Maybe there will be a 135 and or 180 Loxia in the future


Steve my thoughts exactly. I use my heavy Zeiss ze lenses for landscape and don't mind the weight on my back and shooting off a tripod. I don't even mind the weight when I go out for the day shooting Ironman. But when traveling for 3 weeks carrying my gear everyday, give me the small primes any day of the week.



Sep 18, 2018 at 08:07 AM
Todd
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p.2 #11 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Good point, no I haven’t actually thought about the travel aspect because I don’t really get the travel hardly ever. So I guess having smaller lighter lenses is good and doesn’t attract attention I guess for would be thieves etc.

stevesanacore wrote:
I don't mind big heavy lenses on my day jobs when I need 1.2 or 1.4 for effect, but for travel, small lenses are much more practical. With small lenses like Loxia, the Sony is real an alternative to M4/3 camera systems without giving up the high quality of full frame. That is very important to many users as travel photography is very popular on these forums. Maybe there will be a 135 and or 180 Loxia in the future




Sep 18, 2018 at 08:18 AM
IronFilm
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p.2 #12 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


nandadevieast wrote:
Shouldn’t it be other way round? Cameras getting bigger rather than the lenses. I wonder who buys them ! I hate it.

FE is better than GM, Sony.


Unfortunately camera size is creeping up too! Look at say the size of the Panasonic G1 vs G9!






Sep 19, 2018 at 04:25 AM
cputeq
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p.2 #13 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Blame the 100% zoom option in Lightroom.


Sep 19, 2018 at 06:05 AM
trstahly
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p.2 #14 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


cputeq wrote:
Blame the 100% zoom option in Lightroom.


100% is not zoom it is actual size? Where do people come off saying actual size is zoomed or pixel peeping?

I always veiw my pics at 100% why on earth would you want to look at an image that is reduced in size?

I save my files at 4,000 pixels which easily fits on my 27" imac which has a resolution of 5120 x 2880 which occasionally I will save them at 5120 also.




Sep 19, 2018 at 06:21 AM
chez
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p.2 #15 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


trstahly wrote:
100% is not zoom it is actual size? Where do people come off saying actual size is zoomed or pixel peeping?

I always veiw my pics at 100% why on earth would you want to look at an image that is reduced in size?

I save my files at 4,000 pixels which easily fits on my 27" imac which has a resolution of 5120 x 2880 which occasionally I will save them at 5120 also.



Well reducing your images to be viewed on your monitor is not 100% pixel level.



Sep 19, 2018 at 08:09 AM
trstahly
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p.2 #16 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


chez wrote:
Well reducing your images to be viewed on your monitor is not 100% pixel level.


Chez I downsample my 7900 pixel images to 4,000 pixels then view them at 100% call it what you want.

Why is it that you have to be so disagreeable on these forums?



Sep 19, 2018 at 08:11 AM
runamuck
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p.2 #17 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Bigger Glass = bigger lens = bigger bucks. I rest my case.


Sep 19, 2018 at 08:37 AM
chez
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p.2 #18 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


trstahly wrote:
Chez I downsample my 7900 pixel images to 4,000 pixels then view them at 100% call it what you want.

Why is it that you have to be so disagreeable on these forums?


Just needed to correct your viewpoint here. 100% pixel level implies full resolution out of the sensor, not something reduced for viewing. That's like saying I view images here on FM at 100% pixel level as they have been reduced to 1200 pixels for viewing.

I'm not arguing with you. Just correcting your statement that you always view your images at 100% pixel level.



Sep 19, 2018 at 08:49 AM
trstahly
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p.2 #19 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


chez wrote:
Just needed to correct your viewpoint here. 100% pixel level implies full resolution out of the sensor, not something reduced for viewing. That's like saying I view images here on FM at 100% pixel level as they have been reduced to 1200 pixels for viewing.

I'm not arguing with you. Just correcting your statement that you always view your images at 100% pixel level.





Sep 19, 2018 at 08:54 AM
trstahly
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p.2 #20 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I don't mean to come off as beign snarky but it seems like you have a propensity for doing that quite often.

How many of your 15,777 posts are correcting people were you a hall monitor in grade school?

Do me a favor and refrain from correcting my comments it the future?



Sep 19, 2018 at 08:57 AM
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