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Archive 2018 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?

  
 
nandadevieast
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p.1 #1 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Shouldn’t it be other way round? Cameras getting bigger rather than the lenses. I wonder who buys them ! I hate it.

FE is better than GM, Sony.



Sep 17, 2018 at 02:04 PM
rdeloe
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p.1 #2 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


This is certainly the burning question of the month...

We just had a long thread over here, with lots of different perspectives: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1561410/0



Sep 17, 2018 at 02:12 PM
chez
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p.1 #3 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Yes, no interest in GM bulk and weight. Give me Batis size lenses any day.


Sep 17, 2018 at 02:19 PM
kshimz
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p.1 #4 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


The high demand for faster glass, better optics, stabilization, faster and quieter AF motors, weather sealing, built with more durable materials, etc. All of which attribute to the bigger and heavier lenses. The community heavily criticizes manufacturers in these categories, so they try their best to give the best quality lenses, but make compromises based on their values to either reach a larger audience or increase their margins. My 2 cents


Sep 17, 2018 at 04:01 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #5 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I'd love to see the sales numbers for Fuji's f/2 series of lenses, relative to the 1.2/1.4 equivalents. The "fujicrons" are an interesting value proposition - smaller, slower, well built, weather sealed, high quality optically, priced above consumer grade glass but not too expensive.

The whole summarit / summicron / summilux model just makes sense to me as a consumer... a consistent set of tradeoffs across the whole lens lineup. But all great optically within their respective constraints.

I like the Sony lens lineup today but it is kind of a haphazard, motley array of gems. Zeiss makes sense to me with the Loxia and Batis lines.



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:20 PM
nampramos
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p.1 #6 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Isn't the average human getting bigger and heavier in most developed countries?

I'm (not) yet, so it pisses me off having to skip so many lenses and cameras because someone on the marketing meeting decided that bigger is better.



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:27 PM
JohnDizzo15
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p.1 #7 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I tend to agree with @ryuemura. In most cases, there is a very real reason for the size and it generally emanates from what the market it dictating.

Whenever a new lens comes out, we immediately grab onto them and take them out for testing/shooting. When flaws get revealed (whatever types they may be), we harp on them. What that gets us moving forward are products designed to address many of our gripes which ultimately leads us to larger and heavier.

This is precisely the reason I maintain multiple rigs and multiple options at various focal lengths. I firmly believing in the phrase "horses for courses" when applied to our field.

Like @darrellc states regarding the Fuji line, it is awesome to have a very logical set of options from each tier while maintaining a high quality level throughout. This is personally one of the main reasons I continue to maintain a full-fledged Fuji setup with the X-Pro2 even though I shoot with the A9/R3 also.

I have a decently wide array of the Fuji lenses from the faster primes to the slower but weather sealed primes along with some of the slower budget zooms. They all have their place and are consistently well-performing throughout.

I could only wish that the other major players in the industry would follow in this direction not only providing the multiple tiers, but consistent performance and quality throughout.



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:45 PM
webmstrk9
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p.1 #8 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


If you want small fast lenses, you'll pay a premium, if you want small fast autofocusing lenses, you'll pay with body organs. Examples of small fast lenses are Leica, if you haven't looked at the used prices for them, you'll get sticker shock. If you look at the new prices, you'd have a heart attack and ask, why are they so expensive.

When I refer to fast, I'm referring to 1.8 or faster.



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:51 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #9 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


(1) The need for internal focus designs with small elements that an AF motor can focus quickly. The size difference between MF and AF is much bigger these days, compared to when AF lenses sometimes just unit focussed, or did a simple rear group focus.

(2) The market is moving away from photographers who want to take quality photographs easily. Instead, as the market shrinks, a bigger proportion of people prepared to pay for expensive gear are pure performance nerds, whose anxieties are fed by increasing sensor resolution which allows them to see tiny unimportant flaws, the fixing of which requires larger lenses (I count myself sometimes guilty here)



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:53 PM
Chris_88
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p.1 #10 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


nandadevieast wrote:
Shouldn’t it be other way round? Cameras getting bigger rather than the lenses. I wonder who buys them ! I hate it.

FE is better than GM, Sony.


Well, plenty of people (yours truly not included) want/need f1.4 lenses. You might remember the reaction to Sony releasing smaller lenses such as the 55 1.8, 35 2.8, when the a7r and a7 were first launched in November 2013. There were plenty of people on the net who kept complaining about the lack of a trinity of f2.8 zoom lenses and faster (read: f1.4) primes. Those who did the complaining also included plenty of pros (let's not get into a definition war of what that entails here, please) who told Sony they had a need for speed.

Now, part of that may be marketing talk by Sony. However, if you look at the industry as a whole, this is the direction that we are headed in. Just look at Leica. The m-mount is generally considered the poster child for compact, high-performing lenses. However, once you add AF and other features, the size goes up quite a bit, as you can tell from looking at the SL mount version of popular m-mount lenses such as the Lux 50 APSH or the APO Cron 75, not to mention those big zooms.

What is more, people expect their fast glass to perform at very high level ideally right from f1.4 and preferably all the way into the corners. Pixel peeping doesn't help, especially given how demanding 40-50 MP sensors are. Given that 100MP will come to MF pretty soon and then trickle down to FF at some point in the future, this arms race and the resulting demands on lenses are only going to increase.



Sep 17, 2018 at 05:06 PM
Uncle Chip
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p.1 #11 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


The manufacturers are clearly aiming for the pro market with the 1.4 primes and 2.8 zooms,

For me thay are too big on the A7xxx bodies, I contemplated the 24-70 gm for a long time, but in my book it was a step backwards,
The batis lineup is a really good compromise, I have not tried the 135 but the others balance and compliment the 7xx bodies,

A series of pro 1.8 lenses would attract the pro shooters, they can be GM’s and can be 3/4 of the price of the GM’s but keep the IQ of the gm and keep the pro build just drop a 1/3 of the glass, saying that the batis lineup is very good,

The 100-400 is an exception as it is slower, so they have done it here,




Sep 17, 2018 at 05:14 PM
Surfnsun
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p.1 #12 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I blame “Micro Contrast”


Sep 17, 2018 at 05:19 PM
thrice
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p.1 #13 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


There are a few reasons, but they all revolve around speed and performance.

The lens needs to have a large front element and a highly corrected design in order to minimise optical vignette, corner smear and colour shift.

As mentioned above, in order to have fast AF there need to be small elements to be moved for focus, which means other elements have to grow to handle the load. The additional elements also mean bigger lenses.

AF in general makes lenses big.



Sep 17, 2018 at 05:37 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #14 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


'The high demand for faster glass, better optics, stabilization, faster and quieter AF motors, weather sealing, built with more durable materials, etc.'

Recent history (but still back past the working lives of many) show that many makers managed to produce fabulous optics satisfying all these lens technical specifications. So exactly who is demanding say f1.2/f1.4 lenses that all 'need' to be 1000-1300 grams in weight, far in excess heavier than the svelte CV 40/50 and shorter Loxia/all Batis releases?

I haven't read it, perhaps provide links please. Imagine the dealer feedback sessions: 'Boss, the buyers like the FE 85/1.8 but they have a problem. It's only 370 grams..they say they would buy them if you can make it 570 grams please.' Said no one, ever.

The 40/1.2 is all of 420 grams..has terrific IQ, ergo, build, needs neither stabilization nor AF. It could serve as a model lens in a world of sane producers. Batis 135mm, great AF, complex, most definitely a new age lens, is all of 614 grams. Zeiss are even backsliding in our ranges, the leaden Loxia 85/2.4 is only a few matchsticks lighter than the Batis 135/2.8 at 594g.

Nampramos, the hot markets are East Asia, places not known for large handed human beings. What about doing something to encourage women? They (and we) need light/small/excellent in lenses of all speeds.



Sep 17, 2018 at 05:43 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #15 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


The Fuji 50/2 lens is great with fast AF and 200g... how much bigger/heavier would that need to be to scale up to FF from APS-C?

GFX 63/2.8 is 405g... how much smaller/lighter would that be scaled down to FF?... GFX 45/2.8 is 490g...

I’m no optics engineer, but seems like these data points suggest excellent AF lenses could be built with slower apertures.



Sep 17, 2018 at 05:53 PM
mogul
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p.1 #16 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Bring back screw drive lenses and these new lenses will look like they have been on a weight watchers program.


Sep 17, 2018 at 06:10 PM
stevesanacore
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p.1 #17 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I'm looking forward to the expected Sony 135 1.8. I hope it's more the size of the Canon L than the huge Sigma. But it seems that hoping for small high quality AF lenses is fruitless these days.


Sep 17, 2018 at 06:17 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #18 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


I'm just one small data point, but in my Fuji kit, I replaced my 23/1.4 and 35/1.4 for the f/2 versions. Love them. Still kept the 56/1.2 because it's really not too big and is just such a great lens.

darrellc wrote:
I'd love to see the sales numbers for Fuji's f/2 series of lenses, relative to the 1.2/1.4 equivalents. The "fujicrons" are an interesting value proposition - smaller, slower, well built, weather sealed, high quality optically, priced above consumer grade glass but not too expensive.

The whole summarit / summicron / summilux model just makes sense to me as a consumer... a consistent set of tradeoffs across the whole lens lineup. But all great optically within their respective constraints.

I like the Sony lens lineup today but it is kind of a haphazard, motley array of gems. Zeiss makes sense to me with
...Show more



Sep 17, 2018 at 06:21 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #19 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Chris_88 wrote:
Well, plenty of people (yours truly not included) want/need f1.4 lenses. You might remember the reaction to Sony releasing smaller lenses such as the 55 1.8, 35 2.8, when the a7r and a7 were first launched in November 2013. There were plenty of people on the net who kept complaining about the lack of a trinity of f2.8 zoom lenses and faster (read: f1.4) primes. Those who did the complaining also included plenty of pros (let's not get into a definition war of what that entails here, please) who told Sony they had a need for speed.

Now, part of
...Show more

Great summary, Chris.

Just a reminder to folks -- 35mm cameras originally were cute little rangefinder models with pop-out lens that could fit in a pocket. From a simple desire to utilize movie film, these machines grew into the behemoths of the professional DSLR. I understand why they grew, and all the precision and features they offered. No complaints here!

I feel it is only a matter of time before mirrorless bodies increase in size and weight. We already see the high quality lenses increasing in size, such as the Sony 50/1.4 (a very highly regarded image maker). With these new Canon mirrorless (and don't forget the outstanding Sigma 24-35/2 Art), and the introduction of a range of long lenses, Sony and others will continue to beef up the size and weight for top models.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony enlarge and beef-up their lens mount in five more years as part of the super-sizing and future-proofing efforts. In my opinion, Sony has the weakest mount and overall construction compared to CaNikon -- those new mirrorless mounts, on top of new lenses, are going to be causing a lot of ripples and sparking imaginations.

To be sure, there will always be high quality smaller cameras in the FF format (as were APS-C to DSLRs), but they might eventually be considered more enthusiast, than advanced amateur/professional quality.

A few things I think we can be sure will happen:

Resolution will continue to increase

Highest quality glass will be desired to get the most out of that resolution

Bodies will grow to support such lenses and furnish more sq/in for controls, viewing, and gripping surfaces.

***************************

My prediction is that this wave will start to peak in around five years, following improvements in computing power for both PP image processing, and also increasingly sophisticated computers in camera bodies.



Sep 17, 2018 at 06:26 PM
artsf
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p.1 #20 · Why are all new lenses getting bigger and heavier?


Smaller lenses on FF mirrorless make more sense, IMO. Like rf 35mm f1.8. Similarly, Canon could have opted to release 50mm f1.4 instead of f1.2. I went to a Canon event to try out the EOS R with the new lenses. rf 50mm f1.2 and the f2 zoom are absolutely absurd. I am even questioning if they can pass TSA, you litetally can kill somebody with those. rf 35 and rf24-105 handle nicely. With modern high ISO capabilities do we even need f1.2 instead of much cheaper and smaller f1.4? dof control is negligible and not noticeable to most people.


Sep 17, 2018 at 06:38 PM
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