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Archive 2018 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion

  
 
cvrle59
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p.30 #1 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


RobCD wrote:
I don't view it as who's right or wrong because I do think the Nikon Z mount will offer some benefits to Nikon. What I don't think anyone truly knows is how tangible or significant those benefits will be to the users. If Sony has better design engineers or more efficient equipment or some other advantage in the process of making lenses then it may be that they can deliver lenses that are as good as Nikon Z despite the smaller mount. We may find that only the extreme lenses really maximize the Nikon mount and that isn't something that
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I've got no problem to agree with you on this. I won't be a consumer for those expensive lenses either, F1.8 primes are great compromise to me, by the size, IQ and price.




Nov 14, 2018 at 12:54 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #2 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


cvrle59 wrote:
A7RIII is too expensive


Not trying to stir the pot, but so people can judge for themselves as you say. Available new from authorized dealers US models for $2,350 including shipping and tax. I think that is a competitive value.




Nov 14, 2018 at 12:56 PM
RobCD
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p.30 #3 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Sagar wrote:
There is fundamental difference between Sony vs Nikon which most of online discussion end up missing.

Unlike Sony, Nikon has HUGE DLSR customer base and DSLRs though shrinking is still a significant % of overall sales volume and $$. So unlike Sony Nikon is not and can not hurriedly move to new mount ignoring their old mount (similar to MS backward compatibility for Windows). From business and their customer base prospective they have and seem to be planning a smooth migration from DSLR to Mirrorless



It probably depends on what you consider hurriedly. I believe it will happen much more quickly than most DSLR users believe. As the new cameras and lenses come out many more DSLR users will make the transition. My guess is that in two to three years there will be more Nikon mirrorless cameras being sold than Nikon DSLRs. Lenses may take a bit longer because even though Nikon will be selling a bunch of Z mount lenses they will also be able to continue selling F mount lenses to bridge the gaps. In general though I believe it will happen very quickly. I've seen predictions of 10 years and I think that is way off base.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:00 PM
cvrle59
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p.30 #4 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Not trying to stir the pot, but so people can judge for themselves as you say. Available new from authorized dealers US models for $2,350 including shipping and tax. I think that is a competitive value.



That is a significant drop, wow!
BH photo still has $3198 price tag beside it.



Edited on Nov 14, 2018 at 01:06 PM · View previous versions



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:01 PM
sungphoto
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p.30 #5 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


cvrle59 wrote:
Better for you, isn't better for me...AF isn't the only important thing on a camera or system.
For example, low resolution 3" inch back screen, which blocks the view to polarized glasses in horizontal position, is not an option for me, no matter how good AF is (A7III)...how stupid that is.
You may learn in near future what the difference between Sony mount and Nikon mount is.
I played last night for an hour with Z7 and 24-70mm F4 S. That lens is bargain for whatever I'm quoted on, and I think, it's got a lot to do with that new mount.
I
...Show more

Regarding the 24-70 f4 S, I actually didn't even unpack it from the kit for the first two weeks I had it because I assumed I'd just sell it on and just use my 24-70 f2.8G.

I was curious though so have started to compare it to my other Nikon lenses, and I've been really really impressed with it. I don't think the reviews capture how well designed the thing is. It's super compact for a full frame 24-70, exceptionally sharp and well corrected (handles backlit situations quite well), and the autofocus motor is so quiet that I can't even tell that it's working (I actually always wonder if I accidentally switched to manual focus when I have it mounted). It also works really well in video continuous tracking - with none of that jerkiness that you find with Sony video AF. It destroys the sony zeiss 24-70 f4 FE lens in pretty much every way if one wants to compare brands



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:01 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #6 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


RobCD wrote:
It probably depends on what you consider hurriedly. I believe it will happen much more quickly than most DSLR users believe. As the new cameras and lenses come out many more DSLR users will make the transition. My guess is that in two to three years there will be more Nikon mirrorless cameras being sold than Nikon DSLRs. Lenses may take a bit longer because even though Nikon will be selling a bunch of Z mount lenses they will also be able to continue selling F mount lenses to bridge the gaps. In general though I believe it will happen
...Show more


Nikon has already said that mirrorless has slowed sales of it's traditional DSLR cameras significantly. They also project that they will be selling more mirrorless than DSLR by 2020. That is a fast shift in my opinion. Mirrorless is an existential challenge for Nikon (and all ICL companies) which is why I believe that they will solve the issues in the Z7/Z6 come out with a class leading mirrorless camera.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:06 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #7 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


cvrle59 wrote:
That is a significant drop, wow!
BH photo still has $3198 price tag beside it.



Yep, but the way to get that price is shown in the sony forums here on FM. I also could not believe it but I got one for that price. Lenses too. Because of the large amount of used lenses on the market I am able to get an all native mount Zeiss kit at an average cost of about $450 per lens. Won't be many native used S lenses for years I think. I don't think I can lose enough for regrets.




Nov 14, 2018 at 01:11 PM
cvrle59
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p.30 #8 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


I've been following a few threads, because I'm interested in getting into this new system.
Generally, there is no one reason to try to convince each other what camera or system is better.
We like different things, and we dislike different things, so we would pick different cameras and systems.
There are so many excellent choices out there.
We don't buy the same shoes, we don't by the same cars, houses, or whatever else!



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:13 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #9 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


sungphoto wrote:
Regarding the 24-70 f4 S, I actually didn't even unpack it from the kit for the first two weeks I had it because I assumed I'd just sell it on and just use my 24-70 f2.8G.

I was curious though so have started to compare it to my other Nikon lenses, and I've been really really impressed with it. I don't think the reviews capture how well designed the thing is. It's super compact for a full frame 24-70, exceptionally sharp and well corrected (handles backlit situations quite well), and the autofocus motor is so quiet that I can't even tell
...Show more

All of that must be true. The images I have seen from the Z7 with that lense are absolutely brilliant.




Nov 14, 2018 at 01:13 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #10 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


cvrle59 wrote:
I've been following a few threads, because I'm interested in getting into this new system.
Generally, there is no one reason to try to convince each other what camera or system is better.
We like different things, and we dislike different things, so we would pick different cameras and systems.
There are so many excellent choices out there.
We don't buy the same shoes, we don't by the same cars, houses, or whatever else!




Agreed, we are so lucky to have so many good choices. Rich mans problems.

No one buys the same shoes as me. I have size 15 feet. Very limited choices.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:16 PM
cvrle59
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p.30 #11 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Agreed, we are so lucky to have so many good choices. Rich mans problems.

No one buys the same shoes as me. I have size 15 feet. Very limited choices.


15, are you a basketball player....!
I always thought my 12 shoes are too big, when I see my friends.




Nov 14, 2018 at 01:18 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.30 #12 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Because of the large amount of used lenses on the market I am able to get an all native mount Zeiss kit at an average cost of about $450 per lens. Won't be many native used S lenses for years I think. I don't think I can lose enough for regrets.



What kind of service do you get with Sony if you are not the original purchaser? I heard of an experience where the company responsible for Sony service would not accept the lens in without original purchase receipt, even if the customer is willing to pay. I think that borders on the illegal in terms of poor customer service (if not techically illegal it is nonethess not something that would inspire my confidence to buy their product).

However, service and its quality and attitudes vary from region to region and shop to shop. I've had nothing but good expeiences with Nikon service. I know people have had bad luck e.g. with the D600 problem in the past, but I haven't run into such problems with my service needs. Quite often Nikon have covered the cost even when the fault was my fault and/or the product is out of warranty.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:25 PM
Sagar
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p.30 #13 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Migrating 100 year old mount in 2-3 years I believe is fast enough but not overnight like stopping DSLRs development and just going mirrorless (like Sony did with A mount which was right for them because of negligible user base. I had A68 and few primes so I know )

To Sony's credit they seem to knew this day will come and so they just throttled full speed iterating much faster than normal camera refresh cycles to capture as much market possible as they can and probably partially forced CaNikon to enter little earlier than Duopoly alone would have done it.

If I have to guess in 2-3 years period Canikon will retain their existing market shares migrating in mirrorless world, difference will will be with addition of Sony, trio will capture 70-80% remaining left over for all other players.

1bwana1 wrote:
Nikon has already said that mirrorless has slowed sales of it's traditional DSLR cameras significantly. They also project that they will be selling more mirrorless than DSLR by 2020. That is a fast shift in my opinion. Mirrorless is an existential challenge for Nikon (and all ICL companies) which is why I believe that they will solve the issues in the Z7/Z6 come out with a class leading mirrorless camera.




Nov 14, 2018 at 01:30 PM
sungphoto
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p.30 #14 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


ilkka_nissila wrote:
What kind of service do you get with Sony if you are not the original purchaser? I heard of an experience where the company responsible for Sony service would not accept the lens in without original purchase receipt, even if the customer is willing to pay. I think that borders on the illegal in terms of poor customer service (if not techically illegal it is nonethess not something that would inspire my confidence to buy their product).

However, service and its quality and attitudes vary from region to region and shop to shop. I've had nothing but good expeiences with Nikon
...Show more

I've had a shutter assembly replaced on an A72 replaced that I purchased used. I didn't have the receipt, and they actually fixed it as a manufacturer defect, because the shutter assembly failed at just 10k actuations if I recall correctly (basically the shutter wasn't closing completely, leading to a light leak/overexposed portion at the bottom of the frame). To be honest, this early shutter failure was part of what started to spoil my feelings for the brand. This was at photo tech repair in midtown manhattan, which I only went to for Sony service as it was the only place that was certified in town. Guessing there were other circumstances that lead that person's camera to be rejected like water damage or something else that would make the camera a total loss.

Have had generally great experiences with NPS and CPS for repair and service/cleaning. They haven't required a receipt to service.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:36 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.30 #15 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Nikon has already said that mirrorless has slowed sales of it's traditional DSLR cameras significantly. They also project that they will be selling more mirrorless than DSLR by 2020. That is a fast shift in my opinion. Mirrorless is an existential challenge for Nikon (and all ICL companies) which is why I believe that they will solve the issues in the Z7/Z6 come out with a class leading mirrorless camera.


If you're referring to the dpreview interview, they said "Right now, mirrorless market share is around 40% but by 2020 and afterwards we expect that mirrorless will surpass DSLR." but this is referring to the overall mirrorless and DSLR markets and not Nikon's share of them. I don't think they have any realistic chance of matching their DSLR market share in mirrorless by 2020. Native lens line has a lot to do with market share and also certain brands are more popular than others (e.g. Canon). I am sure Nikon will in the long run be able to compete in and take a good market share in mirrorless (5+ years) but for now it seems like there is a long road towards it.

I actually think Nikon's entry in the full frame mirrorless is pretty impressive, the handling, operation and my first experiences with its performance are better than I would have expected. However, I don't have the intention of purchasing anything until at least certain key lenses are available, this includes native telephoto lenses such as the 85/1.8. It could take a few years before it becomes viable to me. 35/1.8+50/1.2+ 85/1.8 would be an interesting kit to me, augmented with FTZ adapted F mount lenses. However, it's not clear yet whether I will get a mirrorless camera. The Z6 is the first one which I might seriously consider, but more likely I will wait for the next generation. The Z7 seems overkill in terms of file size for my purposes, and is priced unnecessarily high.

I don't consider the automatic subject tracking a priority for me, I'm mostly a single point / small group of points (either group-area or 9/25 point dynamic area in DSLRs) autofocus user, preferring manual control over camera making major decisions about where to focus on. When I played around with the Z7, I didn't find any difficulty in controlling the autofocus the way I normally shoot. What was new is that the focusing was almost completely silent (35/1.8 S), I loved that aspect of it.

With regards to "No question it can be shot around with some effort most of the time. But why do that when the industry has better solutions?", as noted by others, there are many factors that influence camera choice. I have to feel I would enjoy using the camera. I want the camera to have controls which I feel at home with, and grip and positioning of buttons such that would make it easy to use it in cold weather with gloves on. I won't buy a camera which makes me feel nauseated when viewing through the EVF. Manual focus is important but not via zoomed viewfinder image, as I need to be able to see the overall composition while focusing, thus the resolution of the live view image in the EVF is important, as it lack of flickering, flashing, accentuated lines etc. artifacts. I have periodically investigated the viewing experience of EVFs over the past few years and the Z7 was the first EVF where I did not feel appalled. I don't know if I will eventually buy a Z series camera, but it didn't feel as bad as other electronic viewfinders that I've tried. The general feeling and user experience (from a Nikon shooter's perspective) was very pleasing, and this is a good start in my book. The zoomed-in EVF experience was awful but I wouldn't be using that anyway (the firmware update is said to reduce the lag there). For zoomed-in viewing for manual focusing, I would use a tripod instead, and the back LCD.

I recognize that Sony are ahead in autofocus, especially with their A9; hopefully in the next few years Nikon catches up in this respect. But in the meanwhile I have no issue using DSLRs for action, and in fact generally prefer them, the only major drawbacks are lack of usable video AF (in Nikon DSLRs), and the sound noise that comes from the DSLR cameras. With the Z7 I felt the sound was soft and pleasing. Later on perhaps Nikon can also provide an A9-like experience with fast electronic shutter.



Nov 14, 2018 at 01:59 PM
1bwana1
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p.30 #16 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Not quoting DPReview. Go read and listen to last weeks quarterly financials.


Nov 14, 2018 at 02:04 PM
sungphoto
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p.30 #17 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


ilkka_nissila wrote:
If you're referring to the dpreview interview, they said "Right now, mirrorless market share is around 40% but by 2020 and afterwards we expect that mirrorless will surpass DSLR." but this is referring to the overall mirrorless and DSLR markets and not Nikon's share of them. I don't think they have any realistic chance of matching their DSLR market share in mirrorless by 2020. Native lens line has a lot to do with market share and also certain brands are more popular than others (e.g. Canon). I am sure Nikon will in the long run be able to compete in
...Show more

So far the Z7's EVF is the only one that comes close to the obscenely good one in the Leica Q. It makes me want to pick up some M-mount glass simply because of how crisp it is for manual focusing



Nov 14, 2018 at 02:36 PM
ilkka_nissila
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p.30 #18 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


I have not found anything about market share in 2020 in Nikon's financial statements. Could you give a citation. Thanks


Nov 14, 2018 at 02:43 PM
charles.K
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p.30 #19 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


sungphoto wrote:
I've had a shutter assembly replaced on an A72 replaced that I purchased used. I didn't have the receipt, and they actually fixed it as a manufacturer defect, because the shutter assembly failed at just 10k actuations if I recall correctly (basically the shutter wasn't closing completely, leading to a light leak/overexposed portion at the bottom of the frame). To be honest, this early shutter failure was part of what started to spoil my feelings for the brand. This was at photo tech repair in midtown manhattan, which I only went to for Sony service as it was the only
...Show more

I have no issues when bodies and/or lenses have problems, whether within warranty or outside. But the ability to service quickly, access to multiple repair centres and available spare parts is very important. In Australia unlike the US, Sony service is still minimal at best. I have mentioned this before and this was huge frustration as there is still only one repair centre in South Australia. Many of my friends have had warranty issues with Sony laptops,TV's, cameras as the process is still very frustrating to the point where they err to other brands. It seems it is regional to Australia and it is a shame as this has deterred some photographers including myself. Both Canon and Nikon have many mature certified repair centres and more so with Canon which you would expect.

To date I have repaired my used D750 and D810 a number of times and most still under warranty while I waited in Brisbane which is a short drive away.

The point of the discussion our decision whether we align with different systems also depends on our regions and a lot more complex than some internet reviews and of those who do no have the gear being discussed.

This thread is a Nikon Z7 resource thread and should be there to facilitate assistance and help and not get into brand discussions stirring the pot




Nov 14, 2018 at 05:22 PM
sungphoto
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p.30 #20 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


charles.K wrote:
I have no issues when bodies and/or lenses have problems, whether within warranty or outside. But the ability to service quickly, access to multiple repair centres and available spare parts is very important. In Australia unlike the US, Sony service is still minimal at best. I have mentioned this before and this was huge frustration as there is still only one repair centre in South Australia. Many of my friends have had warranty issues with Sony laptops,TV's, cameras as the process is still very frustrating to the point where they err to other brands. It seems it is regional to
...Show more

I've been impressed with NPS compared to CPS service wise. I wonder if it's because it's because it's a little harder to get NPS status as you have to prove you're a "professional" whereas CPS is point-based. Had an issue with a D750 body and APS resolved it free of charge because they'd apparently botched the shutter service it'd originally been in for.

One nitpick I have with the Z7 so far build quality wise is that there is a little bubble on the outer area of the EVF. It's not in the actual viewable area of the EVF, but the border around it. Both of my Z7 bodies have this bubble (I returned the one with the larger bubble). It is not at all visible with the camera on, but for a $3300 camera, I'm a little disappointed.

I'm also not in love with the stock eyecup, but I didn't like the stock eyecup on my D850s either (replaced both with DK19s). In really bright conditions, some light leaks around the edges of the eyecup on the Z7. Hopefully Nikon or a third party comes out with a larger eyecup. And one last nit I'd pick is startup time is slower than my D850, but still acceptable.

Aside from that still quite happy. I am about to update the firmware to 1.01 (and my D850s to 1.03). Will be interesting to see what it affects (that's not on the official bug list).



Nov 14, 2018 at 05:32 PM
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