p.1 #1 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
I waited waited waited.... but no thread about this significant introduction in alt forum.
Please no troll, no bashing, no fanbish comment but honest experience and opinions. Sharing your thought, make it beneficial for everyone: what/why you like/don’t like the system?
I plan to have this thread start as discuss thread before the camera reach member’s hand and later on Iet us make it a both image and discuss thread that owner can share honest view about it includ good or bad experience as well as images took with it with either OEM or alt lens. Let us see how far we can go here.
I think it will be interesting. Nikon forum member may not care how Leica M, Loxia or ZF perform on the platform but most members here might love to know. Let’s see.
Aug 26, 2018 at 03:11 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
I waited waited waited.... but no thread about this significant introduction in alt forum.
Please no troll, no bashing, no fanbish comment but honest experience and opinions. Sharing your thought, make it beneficial for everyone: what/why you like/don’t like the system?
I plan to have this thread start as discuss thread before the camera reach member’s hand and later on Iet us make it a both image and discuss thread that owner can share honest view about it includ good or bad experience as well as images took with it with either OEM or alt lens. Let us see how far we can go here.
I think it will be interesting. Nikon forum member may not care how Leica M, Loxia or ZF perform on the platform but most members here might love to know. Let’s see. ...Show more →
Thanks for starting this thread. My take is that the biggest complaint (and I think it is legitimate for many shooters) that the AF is not up to the performance of the third generation Sony cameras is not relevant to Alt shooters (at least Alt shooter who use manual focus lenses). What is relevant to alt shooters is that the camera should be able to use any lens with manual focus and manual aperture control including Zeiss Loxia and Voigtlander lenses for the Sony E mount. Although in general the capabilities of this camera seem to me to be quite similar to the Sony A7r II that I currently use, it has several notable upgrades over that camera. It seems to have a better EVF, a much better LCD, and a joystick controller all of which may add to the manual focus experience over my current Sony A7r II. Right now, however, the approximately $1,800 price difference between the cameras seems way too much, but over time I expect that difference to get a lot smaller and this might well be a very interesting camera for alt shooters.
p.1 #3 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
I agree with all you said. I will see how it goes here. The way it get handled either in Nikon or Sony forum is not the one I am interested. Too many voice at all level of request and background mixed with troll.
p.1 #4 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
I am sure that we will see soon cheaper Chinese-branded metal based MF adapters for the Z-mount. I am personally not interested in more expensive Voigtlander or Hawk adapters for example - I always did well with cheap adapters for my M-mount lenses. For the purpose of seeing first reviews in the future how rangefinder lenses perform on the Z6/Z7 series, it doesn't matter which kind of adapter is used. I am more concerned about issues with the sensor cover glass thickness since I expect Nikon also optimized it for DSLR-type lens constructions.
p.1 #8 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
mcbroomf wrote:
As a resource it's probably good to have this doc available, even though it's obviously marketing. Some good info on the design features though;
Since I started the thread, at least I’d like contribute some of my thought.
1. Price: I think Z7 is overpriced about $200~$400 and Z6 is underpriced about that amount. This may have something to do with latest A7III introduction. Nikon cut here and paste there. I predict Z7 price will go down at Christmas already.
2. About Z6: For most people, Z6 seems a very solid offer at good price. It offer best class viewing experience on both EVF and LCD, best class video performance (only fall short to some m4/3 offer) with the same top class build as Z7. Read the fine spec, I noticed it miss 5X4 crop mode but do have 1X1 and DX format. I don’t know if it is a typo or Nikon purposely crimp it. It is unfortunate a format I used often. For video, many people might prefer oversampled full frame 4K than Z7’s super 35 format.
3. Compare Z7 to Z6, Z6 is good enough for me for most things I plan use. If they are offered at the same time, I might have ordered Z6. The obvious reason to choose Z7 over Z6 would be resolution and resolution only. This again makes Z6 an awesome value. For myself, I use prime most of time, (so crop is a way to get reach for composition purpose) and I use 4X5, 1X1 mode all the time. In additional Z7 offered Mraw and Sraw at higher res. That means I can have the choice to scale down if I want but not other way around. I use that also for my family images, I don’t need 45M to document life. In recent Iceland trip, I use D850 DX mode for puffin shooting with landscape lens 70-200f4, get many perfectly BIF images. As a nonbird shooter, having this once a while option seems worth the premium for me.
4. About preorder. In digital age, I feel preorder actually a way to save money if you are not plan to buy used or older generation camera. For example, I pre-ordered D850 and get it in hand within a month. I can sell it at profit if it doesn’t fit me . (I would never do that in here FM though) Now 2nd price already went down about 300~500 if you buy new now. Don’t forget you have used it for about 1 year, which is long for digital age. Leica M is notoriously hard to get at introduction. For a camera life span about 3~4 years, one year is quarter of its value to me. For certain camera and lensed such as Leica S, I am willing to wait to get old generation stuff because they are out of my price range.
5. About this intro. I give Nikon 80 out 100 point for the product, and 50 out 100 for the marketing. I predict it will be a fairly successful introduction. Many like me have good faith about Nikon based on past experience. They know how to make a good camera and they share some of my philosophy about image taking device. Many photographers don’t post or make noise about deficient spec but know what they want.
Maybe in next post, I will share my personal view about Z7, its merits and flaws by go over the spec sheet and based on initial DP review article alone with my personal experience from their DSLR. (DPREVIEW preview is the only one I feel it is trustable so far) I may well found some of them are fetal once the camera in hand. If it is bad enough, I would not keep it. There is only one way to find out if it suit you.
p.1 #9 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Personally one of the good things about this system for me is timing. With Canon rumoured to announce a FF mirrorless soon, and perhaps Sony ready to rev the A7S and A9, or release an A9R some time early next year I don't have to make up my mind any time soon (I've only had my A7R3's for 6 months and I'm not feeling there's too much lacking for me). I'd really like to see what Sony plan for their next gen sensor before making any new purchase.
I think these Nikon models may live or die by the ability of Nikon to bring the AF up to snuff with firmware before or very soon after production versions are out in the wild. I can see single card being forgiven, but not poor AF, aside from the few of us who are MF diehards. If Sony/Canon don't bring a compelling new offering to the table I could see me sampling the Z7 if the image quality if up there (and I assume it would be very similar to the 850), but for Alt use I'd have to be able to use Canon lenses, especially 17/24mm TSE lenses with a smart adapter, and Sony E with dumb adapters, Loxia and VC, perhaps Leica as well for a few VC-M lenses I own.
p.1 #10 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
zhangyue wrote:
The obvious reason to choose Z7 over Z6 would be resolution and resolution only.
Yes, for me the reason to only consider the Z7. Not going back to 24 MP which my 5D MkII already had in 2009. But I understand that needs are different - smart idea from Nikon to release both Z6 and Z7. I agree also with your assumption that the Z7 is overpriced (only competitors here are other high res FF cameras, and demand is expected to be high for the Z7) and the Z6 likely cheaper due to the A7 III direct competition with this sensor type. Already we see the first sign of breaking up the FF MLC monopoly price game - it keeps prices in check with competition.
p.1 #12 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
retrofocus wrote:
Canon's sleep seems a strong and long lasting one since a number of years.....
Yes, and Canon Rumours/Watch can't seem to make up their mind if there will even be a new camera(s) announced early Sept. Recent post is for a single body, FF and 28MP, but they don't have good sources.
p.1 #14 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
This weekend I sent a question to Fotodiox and Novoflex what their plans were for adapters for Nikon Z. Fotodiox replied yesterday with a more general answer that their R&D department is working on it and today Novoflex replied that "they will bring out a range of adapters" in October/November.
p.1 #15 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
A Chinese editor/blogger (A sony user) who handled the camera in last few days published a short article(500 words) about using Z7.
1. There is no electronic contacts underneath the body or inside battery case. So not sure how the grip will looks like, most likely it will be just a battery extension.
2. Battery: after 20 mins 4K, 960 still images. Z7 used only about 56% battery. The whole section involve EVF+mechanical shutter, LCD+mechanical shutter, Electronic shutter, Continues release, long exposure with NR etc....Under the same condition, A7RII's battery is long gone. Conclusion: Z7 has about the same capability as A7III and A7RIII. CIPA results either screwed or it is from early sample machine. This match DPREVIEW's finding.
3. 24-70 f4 has good tracking ability (I assume it is under good light), 35mm f1.8 tracking is not good. (not mention the condition other than WO) 70-200E can track target walk toward you. (Expected, from DPR, Running toward shooter seems having SO SO results.) Note: this is highly subjective depend on target distance and how fast they move. So please don't be so excited from "OTHER CAMP" () or so frustrated from potential buyers .
4. You can charge the battery through USB but slow 135 min only charge about 36%, expected charging time will be 6 hours. USB-C speed is about usb2.0 spec, suggest buy a XQD reader.
FYI only, I have no comments.
BTW retail in Chinese market: D850:18999 A7RIII 17599 Z7 about 24000. They always sell new stuff this way and price will go down with time and demand.
Aug 28, 2018 at 12:05 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
One additional factor to consider is that the the Z cameras are likely to be able to use the Nikon PF 300 f/4 and PF 500 f/4 lenses very well. These much smaller long tele lenses in my view are good companions for mirrorless cameras. For tracking AF it seems the Z6 and Z7 will still be less than optimal, but in time I expect the AF to improve in future generations of the cameras.
p.1 #17 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread
Steve Spencer wrote:
One additional factor to consider is that the the Z cameras are likely to be able to use the Nikon PF 300 f/4 and PF 500 f/4 lenses very well. These much smaller long tele lenses in my view are good companions for mirrorless cameras. For tracking AF it seems the Z6 and Z7 will still be less than optimal, but in time I expect the AF to improve in future generations of the cameras.
PF500 is a f5.6 lens But at about $3500, it is still a game changer for bird shooter, you should take a look of that MTF, crazy good. I have long planed to get 300PF for my D850. It is still in my schedule.
Another info I got from initial test is DR at 1/60s and 30s.
D850: 14.65 and 14.37. Z7: 14.57 and 13.86. A7RIII 14.48 and 13.85. This is not normalized result. Consider Nikon is at 45M vs Sony 42M. Z7 is slightly ahead of sony but worse than D850 mainly due to smaller size and in body VR I guess.
24-70 is made in Thailand. 35 is most likely made in China. Body and adapter are made in Japan.
For Z7, If you shoot 12 bit mode no matter compressed or not, the camera can continue shoot real time with slower FPS after initial 5.5fps, BUT NO DELAY. They get about 103 frame with 30s shooting. If you shoot 14 bit no matter compressed or not, once buffer filled, it will be 2frame/s plus little delay between. Don;t know about JPEG though.
PS:I hope people can find some of these info useful. I stopped posting in Sony and Nikon forum about Z. I think 'those battle field' are really boring and take away all the joy for this wonderful hobby..
So far, my personal opinion is Nikon didn't under deliver this product. It is a very impressive engineering work with lots of thought going into. Its real value will surface in long term (within next half year) after all those rave and trash talk settle down. This Z is only spec-ed a little below D850 in sports section mainly AFC and FPS (given all the trade off they are facing such as sensor read out speed) but beat D850 in many other area like AF coverage, video, size, EVF based shooting, lens performance etc...
I have no plan get any lens initially. But performance from 35mm and 50mm seems crazy good at f1.8. Rendering and focus transition are nice too. Especially for that 50mm. I may change my plan depend on how my 50mm Leica perform on this platform.
DPreview also have many samples. Unfortunately, Many of them are either high ISO or shots with hint of hand vibration. I have a theory that IBIS camera all have similar issue on this VR thing. I turn it off on my A7RII whenever possible. It has way more usage for video than still but definitely not recommended for sharp 45M file. If you want ultimate sharpness, turn it off, just crank up shutter speed if you don't have multiple chance.
My handhold result at high shutter (even 1/focal) speed is pretty reliable with A7RII but I can get miserable results by turn on IS, sharp but not enough for me at 100% view.
Z7's sensor will be locked on plate if you turn IS off or when you turn off the unit. I don't know how others implement this, but seems reviewers mentioned this is neat feature others lack.
. (I would never do that in here FM though) Now 2nd price already went down about 300~500 if you buy new now. Don’t forget you have used it for about 1 year, which is long for digital age. Leica M is notoriously hard to get at introduction. For a camera life span about 3~4 years, one year is quarter of its value to me. For certain camera and lensed such as Leica S, I am willing to wait to get old generation stuff because they are out of my price range.