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Archive 2018Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
p.1 #1Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Well I did run out and test these two lenses this morning and I will post the test. But have grandkids for a couple days so that will take some time to get done. But thought I would give my quick impressions. Before I do that though I was trying to avoid buying 2 expensive 25mm lenses which is about 2500 but seems i keep gravitating to duplicate MF lens in AF lenses. Like 85mm I have the Sony 85 and the Loxia 85, here the Loxia 25 and Now Batis 25. Im betting donuts Im grabbing the Basis 40 and I have the CV 40. I know this is crazy but it is what it is and i like separate kits
Okay first impressions
In the corners they are pretty equal . The Batis looks to be a 23mm lens which is nice. Big thing is CA. Loxia has none . Batis looks like till F3.2 I see CA. On center I give the edge to the Loxia. But man these are close on corners. Funny thing is Batis at 2.5 is better in corner than a wide open Loxia 25 but at 2.8 they are equal as they are both now stopped down a touch. Which we always know a 1/3rd of a stop down is better anyway on any lens. I think the Loxia has a touch more micro contrast as well. I could see it in focus peaking. Also Im seeing a little more nicer bokeh blur in the Loxia and also rounder bokeh balls but if you did not compare them head to head it be a tough call. They are both very good and looks like i also have a killer copy of the Basis 25 as i do the Loxia 25. Obvious size and weight differences going both ways and i actually did not mind the fly by wire so bad.
The really big difference is focal length and its not by exactly a small number the Batis is wide. So this could come into play for some folks. If you have a 15 than its a nice advantage as you fill that gap better but if you have a 50 than maybe the Loxia fills that gap better.
Okay Ill get to all this but very very close test. I still need to look at all parts to this. the edge is the Loxia but not by any truck load at all.
Okay first impressions
In the corners they are pretty equal . The Batis looks to be a 23mm lens which is nice. Big thing is CA. Loxia has none . Batis looks like till F3.2 I see CA. On center I give the edge to the Loxia. But man these are close on corners. Funny thing is Batis at 2.5 is better in corner than a wide open Loxia 25 but at 2.8 they are equal as they are both now stopped down a touch. Which we always know a 1/3rd of a stop down is better anyway on any lens. I think the Loxia has a touch more micro contrast as well. I could see it in focus peaking. Also Im seeing a little more nicer bokeh blur in the Loxia and also rounder bokeh balls but if you did not compare them head to head it be a tough call. They are both very good and looks like i also have a killer copy of the Basis 25 as i do the Loxia 25. Obvious size and weight differences going both ways and i actually did not mind the fly by wire so bad.
The really big difference is focal length and its not by exactly a small number the Batis is wide. So this could come into play for some folks. If you have a 15 than its a nice advantage as you fill that gap better but if you have a 50 than maybe the Loxia fills that gap better.
Okay Ill get to all this but very very close test. I still need to look at all parts to this. the edge is the Loxia but not by any truck load at all.
Aug 04, 2018 at 11:21 AM
p.1 #2Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
I should add if you need a 25 in one lens that has both AF/MF than the Batis is the obvious choice. Really not making any mistake either way. I lean more to the Loxia and overall maybe the best 25 around but this Batis is right in its tails. Most folks would not notice any difference. This is pixel peaking torture test
Aug 04, 2018 at 11:40 AM
p.1 #3Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Very interesting results Guy. I didn't not see that in a test I compared both lenses a couple months ago: (Best of 3 for each result)
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1545626/1#14477355
If you check above, the Loxia performed noticeably better towards the corners at most wider apertures (resolution and contrast).
I wonder why you are getting different results and perhaps the culprit is field curvature. If you focus the Loxia 25 in the center of the field at f/2.4, the corners won't look optimal. Field curvature is pretty much irrelevant for the Batis 25 which is pretty much flat at infinity.
There is always the possibility the Batis 25 copy I tested was not optimal even though it was well-centered. However, I've tried different Batis 25 copies and they seem to perform similarly. Here is another Batis 25 copy (my own) tested against the 12-24@24mm: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1523443
These corner results do not look similar to what I get from the Loxia 25.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1545626/1#14477355
If you check above, the Loxia performed noticeably better towards the corners at most wider apertures (resolution and contrast).
I wonder why you are getting different results and perhaps the culprit is field curvature. If you focus the Loxia 25 in the center of the field at f/2.4, the corners won't look optimal. Field curvature is pretty much irrelevant for the Batis 25 which is pretty much flat at infinity.
There is always the possibility the Batis 25 copy I tested was not optimal even though it was well-centered. However, I've tried different Batis 25 copies and they seem to perform similarly. Here is another Batis 25 copy (my own) tested against the 12-24@24mm: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1523443
These corner results do not look similar to what I get from the Loxia 25.
Aug 04, 2018 at 12:19 PM
p.1 #4Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
I focused above dead center. Let me get the Raws up at least now. I’m a little surprised but I did not move either so your seeing it a little wider. I thought with profile added it come in some. Not the case. I’m wondering if I should do it again at equal focal and move in a touch. But this very very close. On center though Loxia is better
Aug 04, 2018 at 12:46 PM
p.1 #5Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Check this out this is the framing. Coming from the Loxia which goes to exactly the edge shown than the Basis is obviously wider. But both images cover the same area at 100 percent so look where the overlap is and they look great. Im focused above dead center at the beam going across.
Loxia first in all posted
Loxia first in all posted
Aug 04, 2018 at 12:57 PM
p.1 #6Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Here is center. Loxia first. These are both at 2.4/2.5
Aug 04, 2018 at 12:59 PM
p.1 #7Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Notice no CA in the Loxia on the aluminum strips. Batis that goes away around F3.2. I did a separate test on this
Aug 04, 2018 at 01:01 PM
p.1 #8Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
On center here and in the separate small wall test. Im seeing the Loxia has a slight edge. Which I was expecting, what I did not expect given Freds test and others where the Basis corners looking really good this wide open. Even at F2 it looks good. Possible i have the best Batis 25 on the planet
?? 
Looks very nice
?? Looks very nice
Aug 04, 2018 at 01:03 PM
p.1 #9Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Batis looks to have a bit more barrel distortion as well.
Im loading the Raws from the Big wall and the raws from the on center small wall test. Give you folks a chance to play with them before I can get to this. Grandkids are calling here.
Folks please play around and post your thoughts
Im loading the Raws from the Big wall and the raws from the on center small wall test. Give you folks a chance to play with them before I can get to this. Grandkids are calling here.
Folks please play around and post your thoughts
Aug 04, 2018 at 01:05 PM
p.1 #11Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Im jumping ahead but here is where I see the Loxia has nicer bokeh and more 3d separation look
Aug 04, 2018 at 01:14 PM
p.1 #13Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
GMPhotography wrote:
Possible i have the best Batis 25 on the planet??
That goes without saying!
Back to the test... since you focused both lenses at 'dead center' and your subject is flat, the results make sense since the Loxia has moderate field curvature and the Batis is pretty much flat field. If you would focus the Loxia towards the corners, it should do noticeably better there. (In detriment of center IQ)
I always found the Batis 25 to be excellent across the frame and being flat-field is a great plus. IMO, longitudinal CA correction is its only weakness. (there is some onion ring too)
Also for some shooters, 23mm is an advantage but for many others another weakness. It really depends on which lenses you have and the application they are used for.
Possible i have the best Batis 25 on the planet
?? That goes without saying!
Back to the test... since you focused both lenses at 'dead center' and your subject is flat, the results make sense since the Loxia has moderate field curvature and the Batis is pretty much flat field. If you would focus the Loxia towards the corners, it should do noticeably better there. (In detriment of center IQ)
I always found the Batis 25 to be excellent across the frame and being flat-field is a great plus. IMO, longitudinal CA correction is its only weakness. (there is some onion ring too)
Also for some shooters, 23mm is an advantage but for many others another weakness. It really depends on which lenses you have and the application they are used for.
Aug 04, 2018 at 01:38 PM
p.1 #14Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Guy and Fred:
Have either of you noticed any softness issues with the Batis when shooting wide open at mid-distance, say between 4 and 8 ft? I received my Batis yesterday and after a quick 10 minute test I noticed that at close and far distances sharpness was very acceptable wide open. However, between 4 and 8ft there was a significant drop in resolution. Almost looked out of focus. Didn't have much time so will test further to determine if it's an AF or optical issue.
Mark
Have either of you noticed any softness issues with the Batis when shooting wide open at mid-distance, say between 4 and 8 ft? I received my Batis yesterday and after a quick 10 minute test I noticed that at close and far distances sharpness was very acceptable wide open. However, between 4 and 8ft there was a significant drop in resolution. Almost looked out of focus. Didn't have much time so will test further to determine if it's an AF or optical issue.
Mark
Aug 04, 2018 at 02:13 PM
p.1 #15Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
How are they for flare into the sun? I don't like the Loxia vignetting at f/2.4, but it does look to be a little sharper in the corners and with less aberrations.
Aug 04, 2018 at 04:19 PM
p.1 #16Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Flare on the Loxia is good. Batis I’m not sure myself. Gotta try it
I have the Loxia hood on . Right now I have one filter ring on the Batis. Ordered two new ones. Hate there hood. I won’t use it
I have the Loxia hood on . Right now I have one filter ring on the Batis. Ordered two new ones. Hate there hood. I won’t use it
Aug 04, 2018 at 04:29 PM
p.1 #17Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
markyboy wrote:
Guy and Fred:
Have either of you noticed any softness issues with the Batis when shooting wide open at mid-distance, say between 4 and 8 ft? I received my Batis yesterday and after a quick 10 minute test I noticed that at close and far distances sharpness was very acceptable wide open. However, between 4 and 8ft there was a significant drop in resolution. Almost looked out of focus. Didn't have much time so will test further to determine if it's an AF or optical issue.
Mark
Not yet but I’ll try some shots with it. I’m shocked at the Batis. My last one I don’t remember this good. Check the center test. Loxia does have the edge.
Guy and Fred:
Have either of you noticed any softness issues with the Batis when shooting wide open at mid-distance, say between 4 and 8 ft? I received my Batis yesterday and after a quick 10 minute test I noticed that at close and far distances sharpness was very acceptable wide open. However, between 4 and 8ft there was a significant drop in resolution. Almost looked out of focus. Didn't have much time so will test further to determine if it's an AF or optical issue.
Mark
Not yet but I’ll try some shots with it. I’m shocked at the Batis. My last one I don’t remember this good. Check the center test. Loxia does have the edge.
Aug 04, 2018 at 04:32 PM
p.1 #18Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
I'm also impressed with the Batis result you are getting. I've been considering getting the Batis 25 to replace my Loxia 21. Only because of its ~24mm focal length and 67mm filter thread. I'm still not convinced I want to give up manual focus, since I use it for landscape. There's also the issue of LoCA, which can look pretty bad as shown on Phillips site. It's evident even at f/4 there:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-zeiss-batis-distagon-t-25mm-f2/
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-zeiss-batis-distagon-t-25mm-f2/
Aug 04, 2018 at 05:11 PM
p.1 #19Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
Fred Miranda wrote:
Very interesting results Guy. I didn't not see that in a test I compared both lenses a couple months ago: (Best of 3 for each result)
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1545626/1#14477355
If you check above, the Loxia performed noticeably better towards the corners at most wider apertures (resolution and contrast).
I wonder why you are getting different results and perhaps the culprit is field curvature. If you focus the Loxia 25 in the center of the field at f/2.4, the corners won't look optimal. Field curvature is pretty much irrelevant for the Batis 25 which is pretty much flat at infinity.
There is always the possibility...Show more →
My results were like Fred's: noticeably better corners on the Loxia at infinity. Of course Bronco is not infinity: but maybe it's far enough away to not be different? I guess its possible that the FC on Loxia is stronger a bit closer than infinity?
Very interesting results Guy. I didn't not see that in a test I compared both lenses a couple months ago: (Best of 3 for each result)
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1545626/1#14477355
If you check above, the Loxia performed noticeably better towards the corners at most wider apertures (resolution and contrast).
I wonder why you are getting different results and perhaps the culprit is field curvature. If you focus the Loxia 25 in the center of the field at f/2.4, the corners won't look optimal. Field curvature is pretty much irrelevant for the Batis 25 which is pretty much flat at infinity.
There is always the possibility...Show more →
My results were like Fred's: noticeably better corners on the Loxia at infinity. Of course Bronco is not infinity: but maybe it's far enough away to not be different? I guess its possible that the FC on Loxia is stronger a bit closer than infinity?
Aug 04, 2018 at 05:41 PM
p.1 #20Loxia 25 VS Batis 25mm Big Bronco
GMPhotography wrote:
Big thing is CA. Loxia has none .
.
It's clearly better than the Batis in that regard, but the Loxia 25 still has a fair bit of LoCA. It doesn't show up much in your test here, but has been well documented in our previous discussions (and elsewhere). The 25 is not as good as the 21 in that regard. In my own real world shooting with the L25 it does get in the way sometimes, particularly if I have tree branches against a bright (but not necessarily overexposed) sky.
GMPhotography wrote:
The really big difference is focal length and its not by exactly a small number the Batis is wide.
.
I actually wish the L25 was more like the Batis in this respect because I prefer that slightly wider AOV, However, it obviously makes sense to have the narrower AOV for the Loxia, otherwise it would be too close to the L21.
Big thing is CA. Loxia has none .
.
It's clearly better than the Batis in that regard, but the Loxia 25 still has a fair bit of LoCA. It doesn't show up much in your test here, but has been well documented in our previous discussions (and elsewhere). The 25 is not as good as the 21 in that regard. In my own real world shooting with the L25 it does get in the way sometimes, particularly if I have tree branches against a bright (but not necessarily overexposed) sky.
GMPhotography wrote:
The really big difference is focal length and its not by exactly a small number the Batis is wide.
.
I actually wish the L25 was more like the Batis in this respect because I prefer that slightly wider AOV, However, it obviously makes sense to have the narrower AOV for the Loxia, otherwise it would be too close to the L21.
Aug 04, 2018 at 05:42 PM