I wonder, are people still waiting for the 500pf ? I bought one on 24 november 2018, i was one of the very first. i used it for a year and then i went to a sony A7R4 and 200-600, i just f*#ki%g hated everything about that sony (with the long lens) so now i switched back to a d500 and 500pf.
To my suprise the lens is still widely available here (the netherlands). Altho the lens is very very expensive here at €3999 which is $4436.
I am surprised that you didn't like the Sony, as many people suggest that the 200-600 is a great lens when paired with the right body... though, I think the A7R4 may not be the "right" body. I have heard that the 200-600 is plays well with the A9 cameras.
Like you, I have had my 500PF since its introduction (shipped by NPS around September 2018). It seems that the production has finally caught up with the demand in the US. This may be the "Covid Effect," as many have lost their disposable income (or any income), and a $3600 lens could be deemed a frivolous expenditure in this moment. As such, there are 500PF lenses that can be purchased off the shelf in some local shops.
jellem wrote:
I wonder, are people still waiting for the 500pf ? I bought one on 24 november 2018, i was one of the very first. i used it for a year and then i went to a sony A7R4 and 200-600, i just f*#ki%g hated everything about that sony (with the long lens) so now i switched back to a d500 and 500pf.
To my suprise the lens is still widely available here (the netherlands). Altho the lens is very very expensive here at €3999 which is $4436.
This weekend, it's suddenly become available in the UK and there is a sale on at £200 below list at various dealers, which is close to € price. The D500 and 500mm PF are two of the very best purchases I have made! Interestingly, used D500s were plentiful 3 or 4 months ago and none are on sale by the regular UK dealers.
The more I use the 500pf, the more relunctant I am to sell it and use the big guns. (though, the pf has limits under certain situations where I would still pick the f/4s or f/2.8s instead)
Fantastic series of great gray owls.
I have photographed this species in the winter, but have never had a green season opportunity. It looks as if you made the most of your shoot!... I simply love the eye contact!
I am curious about how 500PF users are using VR on the lens.
Unlike my 200-400 which stays attached to a tripod, I use the 500PF without a tripod about 90% of the time. I pair the lens with the D500, with hopes of using it with a D5 (or pro-Z) in the future. I use VR Sport for all moving subjects, and generally leave VR on. However, I am now questioning this decision. I am starting to find that 50% of my images are tack sharp, 20% are acceptable, and 30% are out of focus/mis-focused.
I tend to shoot with the D25 AF patch. I also shoot a lot of aquatic mammals and birds, so maybe my AF woes are due to the D25 mode grabbing the water.
At what shutter speed does VR do more harm than good?
kurisuhoyin wrote:
The more I use the 500pf, the more relunctant I want to use the big guns. (though, the pf has limits under certain situations where I would pick the f/4s or f/2.8s instead)
I've had VR on constantly and for years. It is never shut off and with the 500 PF it stays in Sports Mode. For me, there is absolutely no loss of resolution or sharpness with VR on at any shutter speed, up to the highest (1/2500 to 1/4000).
I should add that over 90% of my shooting is handheld.
I like this lens for its agility. sharpness and speed.
OwlsEyes wrote:
I am curious about how 500PF users are using VR on the lens.
Unlike my 200-400 which stays attached to a tripod, I use the 500PF without a tripod about 90% of the time. I pair the lens with the D500, with hopes of using it with a D5 (or pro-Z) in the future. I use VR Sport for all moving subjects, and generally leave VR on. However, I am now questioning this decision. I am starting to find that 50% of my images are tack sharp, 20% are acceptable, and 30% are out of focus/mis-focused.
I tend to shoot with the D25 AF patch. I also shoot a lot of aquatic mammals and birds, so maybe my AF woes are due to the D25 mode grabbing the water.
At what shutter speed does VR do more harm than good?
My 0.02c is it's the surrounding water, but check the shutter speed range. My wild guess it's and if I get such background/foreground interference, I stick to Single-Point or a9 (unsure if D500 has a9 ?). I did not get this with my 500 PF on D850 although sometimes with the Z7, but this is more to do with the Z AF algorithm(s) in the different modes. As with 300 PF, I also keep the 500 PF permanently in VR-Sport mode.
There's are a few long threads on forums about conflict with VR on the 300 PF. This seems to be especially in earlier releases - pre # 205101 . A few years back, a poster reported mega frustration with Nikon Europe over his 300 PF (in a thread on NikonGear).
Anyway, perhaps optimizing the VR in these hyper light telephotos threw up arcane challenges for Nikon, but fortunately the 500 PF has escaped these. I logged this link in my database wrto comments on this by Brad Hill http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog_2015_all.html
16 April 2015: Update on the VR Issue on the Nikkor 300mm f/4E PF ED VR
25-point dynamic may be too large a part of the frame if there are other image elements in that area. I only use it for really fast action situations. 9-point dynamic is my most commonly used mode for people and animals, and single point I use if 9-point is too large. By increasing the number of points in dynamic area AF, some precision can be lost as the camera has so many options of potential detail to focus on.
I use VR SPORT when using the 500 PF hand-held and VR OFF when shooting from a tripod. I haven't noticed any problems at specific shutter speeds with the 500 PF but I don't hand-hold it intentionally at slower speeds than 1/200 s. My typical shutter speed range is 1/200 s to 1/2000 s with this lens.
One of the advantages of the D850 is the ability to use the viewfinder and EFCS together. This only works in Q and Qc modes. If you want the best hand-held sharpness, this is the ticket. It removes most shutter vibration from affecting the outcome and thus the problem of shutter vibration causing interference with VR is avoided. This also solves the 300 PF's problem. EFCS can be used with viewfinder in the D850, D780 and D6 in Q/Qc modes, and more generally with the Z50, Z6 and Z7.
I find (and reading between the lines, I think Arbitrage also does) that in Normal mode the focal point erratically jumps around the target area during a burst, both on the D500 and D850, and so moves on and off a small bird to surrounding objects. In Sport mode, it remains firmly stuck on target but the quality of VR drops below 1/1000s. Accordingly, at lower shutter speeds, I use Normal mode and put up with the drift off and on target and use smaller bursts. At higher shutter speeds, I use Sport mode. In theory, 1/1000s shouldn't need VR for a 500mm lens. But, it does for me.
My 0.02c is it's the surrounding water, but check the shutter speed range. My wild guess it's and if I get such background/foreground interference, I stick to Single-Point or a9 (unsure if D500 has a9 ?). I did not get this with my 500 PF on D850 although sometimes with the Z7, but this is more to do with the Z AF algorithm(s) in the different modes. As with 300 PF, I also keep the 500 PF permanently in VR-Sport mode.
There's are a few long threads on forums about conflict with VR on the 300 PF. This seems to be especially in earlier releases - pre # 205101 . A few years back, a poster reported mega frustration with Nikon Europe over his 300 PF (in a thread on NikonGear).
Anyway, perhaps optimizing the VR in these hyper light telephotos threw up arcane challenges for Nikon, but fortunately the 500 PF has escaped these. I logged this link in my database wrto comments on this by Brad Hill http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog_2015_all.html
16 April 2015: Update on the VR Issue on the Nikkor 300mm f/4E PF ED VR
sorry I cannot be more specific nor enlightening
best
Woody
...Show more →
Thanks for adding your thoughts Woody. I am beginning to think that it is my reliance on D25 mode. This is a really useful way of maintaining focus on flying birds, especially those that are flying towards you. After shooting with the D500 for many years, I am finding places where D25 is failing me... animals (beavers, otters, seals) in the water, mammals and birds with long beaks/noses facing me, and birds with large wingspans flying across my path. In addition, the reduced depth of field that accompanies a 500mm focal length has caused me to get many well focused nose with out of focus eyes.
Finally, because the VR element moves, I find that the AF grabs the nearest bit of contrast during a burst. As the VR element moves the target my desired focus point (say the eye)... boom, great focus. On the other hand, it the VR element moves the central focus point over the nose or water, that is where sharpness is maximized.
bs kite wrote:
I've had VR on constantly and for years. It is never shut off and with the 500 PF it stays in Sports Mode. For me, there is absolutely no loss of resolution or sharpness with VR on at any shutter speed, up to the highest (1/2500 to 1/4000).
I should add that over 90% of my shooting is handheld.
I like this lens for its agility. sharpness and speed.
So are you saying that the moving VR element does not cause the AF point to grab something other than what you intended? When using the D25 (I don't have D9) AF patch (especially) on aquatic subjects near the water, I think the AF point moves due to the VR. This causes 3/10 images to be out of critical focus, as the water is grabbed by the AF system. This also happens when photographing large birds flying across my path. Here wings are grabbed by the helper AF points instead of the eye.
To be clear, I see the central AF point is on the eye, but during a burst of images, I can see how VR is shifting that central point.
As such, I am wondering if I would increase my keeper rate if I were to disengage VR at 1/1000 second or so.
OwlsEyes wrote:
Thanks for adding your thoughts Woody. I am beginning to think that it is my reliance on D25 mode. This is a really useful way of maintaining focus on flying birds, especially those that are flying towards you. After shooting with the D500 for many years, I am finding places where D25 is failing me... animals (beavers, otters, seals) in the water, mammals and birds with long beaks/noses facing me, and birds with large wingspans flying across my path. In addition, the reduced depth of field that accompanies a 500mm focal length has caused me to get many well focused nose with out of focus eyes.
Finally, because the VR element moves, I find that the AF grabs the nearest bit of contrast during a burst. As the VR element moves the target my desired focus point (say the eye)... boom, great focus. On the other hand, it the VR element moves the central focus point over the nose or water, that is where sharpness is maximized.
Yes, Bruce. It indeed sounds like it's the d25 missing the eye(s), and/or VR pulling the focus off subject. My strategy is use Single-Point unless it's too tricky to grab the subject's eye. So D850 custom settings have d9 (usually) on BBAF; AF-On+Single-Point to Pv, and AF-On+Auto to Fn1
Yet another infuriating messup of Nikon's to not upgrade the D500 is use d9. And IMHO, the single-point mode in AFC could also be shrunk OR better add the extra Pin-point. This is even if both these fine-grained modes both restricted to the same cluster of light sensors in the AF "engine".
ilkka_nissila wrote:
25-point dynamic may be too large a part of the frame if there are other image elements in that area. I only use it for really fast action situations. 9-point dynamic is my most commonly used mode for people and animals, and single point I use if 9-point is too large. By increasing the number of points in dynamic area AF, some precision can be lost as the camera has so many options of potential detail to focus on.
I use VR SPORT when using the 500 PF hand-held and VR OFF when shooting from a tripod. I haven't noticed any problems at specific shutter speeds with the 500 PF but I don't hand-hold it intentionally at slower speeds than 1/200 s. My typical shutter speed range is 1/200 s to 1/2000 s with this lens.
One of the advantages of the D850 is the ability to use the viewfinder and EFCS together. This only works in Q and Qc modes. If you want the best hand-held sharpness, this is the ticket. It removes most shutter vibration from affecting the outcome and thus the problem of shutter vibration causing interference with VR is avoided. This also solves the 300 PF's problem. EFCS can be used with viewfinder in the D850, D780 and D6 in Q/Qc modes, and more generally with the Z50, Z6 and Z7....Show more →
Thanks Ikka,
I think that you are right. I fear that the D25 patch is too large for my face forward subjects. D25 is brilliant for birds that fly towards me, but less accurate for mammals with large noses. While the D850 is a brilliant camera, it is not what i want in a wildlife body. With the benefit of many pixels comes issues related with storage and processing speed. Because many of my photographic subjects are close due to their size and my use of a hide, I think I am a good candidate for a D5. Were it not for the huge body, I'd have one by now.
If you're using VR sport and hand-holding the lens then I don't see how turning VR OFF would help maintain the correct AF point on the subject; on the contrary, I find VR sport to help greatly with maintaining focus on hand-held shots. I would have huge problems hand-holding a 500mm focal length lens without VR.
I think the best way to improve the focus keeper rate in your case would be to use single point for static and slowly moving subjects near water and keep VR in sport mode. Make sure you are using one of the cross-type points for greater reliability. If you are anticipating a bird in-flight shot, then go to 25-point mode. I know flipping between modes is annoying.. You could assign 25-point dynamic area (+ AF-ON) to the lens button, or one of the user-customizable buttons on the camera.
I use a tripod and fluid head for shots of animals on the water. This is more stable than hand-holding with VR. The main reasons I use a tripod for this is that I experience a greater consistency of focus using this approach, and I don't have to hold the lens steady for a long period of time while waiting for something interesting to happen. use the Gitzo GHF2W head with the 500 PF.
OwlsEyes wrote:
So are you saying that the moving VR element does not cause the AF point to grab something other than what you intended? When using the D25 (I don't have D9) AF patch (especially) on aquatic subjects near the water, I think the AF point moves due to the VR. This causes 3/10 images to be out of critical focus, as the water is grabbed by the AF system. This also happens when photographing large birds flying across my path. Here wings are grabbed by the helper AF points instead of the eye.
To be clear, I see the central AF point is on the eye, but during a burst of images, I can see how VR is shifting that central point.
As such, I am wondering if I would increase my keeper rate if I were to disengage VR at 1/1000 second or so.
I don’t know if the moving VR element affects the system’s choice of AF point. Have not considered it. But I will now.
For BIF, I use Auto AF almost exclusively. This based on Geoff’s suggestion several years ago; i.e. how well it worked for him. I tried it and was so impressed that I never looked back.
Prior to Auto AF I had been going between d9 and d25. As I recall now, d9 was just too difficult to keep on the bird. So, (again, as I recall) I think I settled on d25, before he suggested Auto AF.
I do find that the point that Auto AF chooses to focus on *does* vary. Sometimes it hits the eye on the button and many times it is some other part of the bird. I hope that DOF is deep enough to assure the eye is in focus, but not always.
I always work toward the lowest perspective I can achieve on the water. So, maybe you are right. Maybe it is “grabbing” the water as you say. But it also can occur to me, on a passing bird, as you also mentioned it can occur to you on a passing bird.
I just figure there is nothing in any Nikon AF system I have used thus far, that will assure the AF point lies on the eye. Isn’t that changing now in Nikon's research labs? I think so.
I love VR’s ability to stabilize the image I see in the viewfinder. It had not occurred to me that the moving of the VR element might cause any problem with AF. But I can see how that may be the case. I just do not have enough knowledge of this to know.
After your suggestion, I am going to remember to experiment with turning off VR at high shutter speeds. But honestly, at this point, I think that the Nikon AF system simply chooses a final focus point randomly, and hopefully (for us shooting BIF) that point assures that the eye falls within DOF.
