Fotografpaul wrote:
So when I say my two cents I'm an elitist?
What's condescending and elitist? That I don't agree?
Like I said, it doesn't bother me, but it comes off like that. When you say "it's not even funny" how bad it's built, or call it "subquality" gear, it sounds elitist because it's simply an hyperbole and implies that other photographers are mediocre because they use subquality gear. I've used a lot of lighting systems and the Xplor 600 is built very similar to Elinchrom strobes which are in no way subquality, better in some ways and worse in others, but no drastic difference at all.
Like I said, it doesn't bother me, but it comes off like that. When you say "it's not even funny" how bad it's built, or call it "subquality" gear, it sounds elitist because it's simply an hyperbole and implies that other photographers are mediocre because they use subquality gear.
That is not my intention, just because I think a product lacks in quality does not mean I think the photographers using them lacks in quality i.e.
But they might, however, have different requirements than me when it comes to build, quality, consistency, and service.
hijazist wrote:
I've used a lot of lighting systems and the Xplor 600 is built very similar to Elinchrom strobes which are in no way subquality, better in some ways and worse in others, but no drastic difference at all.
Which units are you referring to ? Even the D-lites are built to better standards from my experience.
Considering distributor like Chetah stands had to QC all the lights before putting their sticker on them says something about the quality. It's not like Profoot or Elinchrom distributors unbox and have to test all units before standing behind them.
Now people in the US has Adorama which is a nice warranty, but in a lot of countries, there is no service to think of at all.
That is not my intention, just because I think a product lacks in quality does not mean I think the photographers using them lacks in quality i.e.
But they might, however, have different requirements than me when it comes to build, quality, consistency, and service.
Which units are you referring to ? Even the D-lites are built to better standards from my experience.
Considering distributor like Chetah stands had to QC all the lights before putting their sticker on them says something about the quality. It's not like Profoot or Elinchrom distributors unbox and have to test all units before standing behind them.
Now people in the US has Adorama which is a nice warranty, but in a lot of countries, there is no service to think of at all.
Yeah I mentioned the warranty issue earlier, and that's why I am recommending Flashpoint over Godox.
I've used the Style RX 600, D-Lites and BRX, the Xplor is sturdier than the D-Lite and on par with the others, if there's a difference, it's not drastic. I haven't had issues with any of them except the fact that the Xplor is more intuitive and has better features, menues and screen. That's not fair of course cause those were old Eli models and I haven't used anything from them recently. I liked the Eli mount better.
hijazist wrote:
That's not fair of course cause those were old Eli models and I haven't used anything from them recently. I liked the Eli mount better.
This - in any real world use of the light I've encountered - is simply not true. I just did a day of testing the Evolv against a speedlight, as well as the twin Evolv, and the Xplor… it's by no means a flawless product but hot spotting isn't an issue at all.
FWIW I shot 28mm FOV from about 15ft from a white wall, with the Evolv 10ft from an XRite. I also put it in a 6ft silver Photek style umbrella, with a sock - yeah, it's brightest at perhaps 70-80% of the center area of the umbrella, with a little fall off at the edges, but I'd hardly call that hotspotting.
Fotografpaul wrote:
The flashtube (bare bulb) still acts more like a speedlight (creating a hotspot) then a traditional horse shoe flash tube.
This is so drenched in condescension it'd be frustrating if it weren't so laughable - typical low quality internet trolling.
Point me to a manufacturer who's entire line has never needed QC or has a flawless product release history
Profoto - check the history of the B1, and now A1 - you'll find plenty of complaints. Elinchrom: flaking Octa interiors or the terrible handle people DIY drill and replace with an Avenger knuckle
C'mon man, you're not the only guy who has experience with gear.
Fotografpaul wrote:
Considering distributor like Chetah stands had to QC all the lights before putting their sticker on them says something about the quality. It's not like Profoot or Elinchrom distributors unbox and have to test all units before standing behind them.
You can call it whatever you want Jim, You clearly don't understand the difference between distributor having to QC the stock opposed to manufacturer actually fixing the QC issues before shipping it.
As for experience, I never said I was the only one. But Jim how many hours do you have with the Phottix ?
As for hot spot, it's visible alright, bare, in a octa or an umbrella.
Fotografpaul wrote:
Well if you want something in the formfactor of the AD200 you better get that, and live with it.
Personally i don't see the formfactor as a benefit, not sure how removing the swivel of a speed light would improve it.
Did you ever use an Armatar flash?
It's not the "removal of the swivel" that is the form issue. It is the ability to "readily & securely" attach / remove the reflector / modifiers / bare bulb as needed in a smaller form factor.
Speedlights have no ability for bare bulb. And when trying to use modifiers on a speedlight ... that's usually an exercise in gadgetry. AA battery (or wired battery pack) is additional issue to contend with.
Having a light that functions (i.e. modifiers) like studio lighting, in a self-contained power form factor, that will fit in a camera bag, with more power than a speedlight has an appeal.
When I grab my gear and "head out", I may not know where my travels may take me. Something in the realm of the AD200 seems to have the form factor versatility that offers greater opportunity than a speedlight (uggh @ AA), and yet smaller than packing carrying a traditional monolight & battery (DC or AC/inverter, i.e. VBM). It just seems that a pair of AD200's offer placement options far more versatile than a battery pack and wires.
That said ... the basis for the post was to inquire if there were any other options of similar "in between" lighting that bridged the capability of a speedlight size and a studio light power, like the Godox has approached. What this post is NOT, is a my brand is built better than yours, so yours sucks. Yes, I appreciate that build difference ... so, if there is a better build of the AD200 (or similar), then I am definitely interested to learn of it (i.e. post title Godox Alternatives).
At the moment, there seems to be no (similar) alternatives on the market to the AD200. I just thought I'd check in to see if anyone else knew of something I was overlooking.
My beloved Armatar (RIP) seems to be resurrected in the realm of Godox. I was just wondering if any other mfr had done so as well.
RustyBug wrote:
At the moment, there seems to be no (similar) alternatives on the market to the AD200. I just thought I'd check in to see if anyone else knew of something I was overlooking.
Perhaps the SMDV BRIHT could be seen as an alternative in your eyes. It's bigger than the AD200, but it remains lighter and more compact than other all in ones.
Many of the AD200's features are quite unique though.
Given your described workflow, which closely mirrors my approach, I highly recommend you start with a single Evolv200 and also invest in the twin head bracket and a single extra bare bulb. Start there. Then, if you find it's fantastic but also at times you want more punch, add another Evolv to either add a stop or halve recycling times.
I used to make a lot of use of the Streaklights, which have been fantastic, and assumed the Evolv would just be a *touch* too little light to be worth my time. Then I got them and started playing. The bottom line is they might be a half stop under the Streaklight (or a third?), but recycle faster. Setup time makes them really fun to work with. And if you have the twin adapter, you can run with a light that is *only a tenth stop* behind the Xplor600, recycles faster, and gives you the option to have a modular and two independently ratioed sources.
In my personal use shooting portraits, beauty and full length movement/fitness/dance, my lightweight kit would be:
2x Evolv
Twin bracket
1 small reflector for a clean hard source
1 6ft umbrella with diffusion for broad soft source or fill
2x kit stands
Depending on your needs maybe an Extra Small Chimera or similar for a soft small source.
The Evolvs, bracket and reflector fit in a shoulder bag. Get a stand bag for stands and umbrellas. It's a really lean go anywhere shoot anything kit!
RustyBug wrote:
Did you ever use an Armatar flash?
It's not the "removal of the swivel" that is the form issue. It is the ability to "readily & securely" attach / remove the reflector / modifiers / bare bulb as needed in a smaller form factor.
Speedlights have no ability for bare bulb. And when trying to use modifiers on a speedlight ... that's usually an exercise in gadgetry. AA battery (or wired battery pack) is additional issue to contend with.
Having a light that functions (i.e. modifiers) like studio lighting, in a self-contained power form factor, that will fit in a camera bag, with more power than a speedlight has an appeal.
When I grab my gear and "head out", I may not know where my travels may take me. Something in the realm of the AD200 seems to have the form factor versatility that offers greater opportunity than a speedlight (uggh @ AA), and yet smaller than packing carrying a traditional monolight & battery (DC or AC/inverter, i.e. VBM). It just seems that a pair of AD200's offer placement options far more versatile than a battery pack and wires.
That said ... the basis for the post was to inquire if there were any other options of similar "in between" lighting that bridged the capability of a speedlight size and a studio light power, like the Godox has approached. What this post is NOT, is a my brand is built better than yours, so yours sucks. Yes, I appreciate that build difference ... so, if there is a better build of the AD200 (or similar), then I am definitely interested to learn of it (i.e. post title Godox Alternatives).
At the moment, there seems to be no (similar) alternatives on the market to the AD200. I just thought I'd check in to see if anyone else knew of something I was overlooking.
My beloved Armatar (RIP) seems to be resurrected in the realm of Godox. I was just wondering if any other mfr had done so as well.
I had one of my two AD200 bodies stop recognizing the flash head after about a month. After doing some web searches I found out that I wasn't the only one. Thankfully the seller on amazon sent a replacement body, but it definitely wasn't confidence inspiring. That said, the AD200 is my most used Godox light when I'm not doing advertising work (I only use profoto now for the latter for various reasons). I also have an AD600 and AD360 but when I need more output than the AD200, I just a B1.
I don't think the AD200 will take abuse well longer term though after doing some dissection of the one that failed. The LCD screen is not recessed so it is easily scratched or cracked if you put it down on that end. After my issue with the flash head, I don't like to put it down flash head down. They're a great value and pack a huge amount of features, along with lots of power into a very small package.
As others have said the AD200 is somewhat unique in terms of a price, size, feature and power standpoint. Enough so that I'd argue that it's not a bad idea to pick one up as a cheap on location light.
Just curious: how do you travel with the 200? Head on or not?
sungphoto wrote:
I had one of my two AD200 bodies stop recognizing the flash head after about a month. After doing some web searches I found out that I wasn't the only one. Thankfully the seller on amazon sent a replacement body, but it definitely wasn't confidence inspiring. That said, the AD200 is my most used Godox light when I'm not doing advertising work (I only use profoto now for the latter for various reasons). I also have an AD600 and AD360 but when I need more output than the AD200, I just a B1.
I don't think the AD200 will take abuse well longer term though after doing some dissection of the one that failed. The LCD screen is not recessed so it is easily scratched or cracked if you put it down on that end. After my issue with the flash head, I don't like to put it down flash head down. They're a great value and pack a huge amount of features, along with lots of power into a very small package.
As others have said the AD200 is somewhat unique in terms of a price, size, feature and power standpoint. Enough so that I'd argue that it's not a bad idea to pick one up as a cheap on location light....Show more →
Depending on the bag I have it in, I’ll usually take the head off. The removable nature of the flash head though seems to me like a long term weak point though even though it makes it more versatile. When one of my heads stop being recognized, I could make it work if I slid the head halfway on and pressed down a little. Hard to say if it’s safer longer term to keep the head mounted though because the amazon seller and Godox didn’t tell me what specifically they think caused the malfunction. They didn’t ask for the malfunctioning ad200 to be sent back though, which made me wonder how widespread the issue is. Seemed like a waste to just throw the malfunctioning one in the trash.
I have since then dropped one of the Godox ad200s from a height of about five feet, bare bulb flash attached, and after replacing the bulb it continues to work fine so that may indicate the issue I had with the flash head not getting recognized anymore was a pure product defect and not from wear (though as a full time photographer I put a lot of usage on all my gear).
jlafferty wrote:
Just curious: how do you travel with the 200? Head on or not?
I presently use two Godox AD200s, though I've been using Profoto equipment since 2003. I love the Godox AD200 units. They are compact, good for many, many pulses, quite powerful, easy to use, and economical. TTL functionality works very well with my D850, but my Sony A9 occasionally has issues that I don't know how to resolve (I ended up switching to manual mode). Also, the mounting point on the AD200 isn't the best - when I screw it into the stand adapter, it may still rotates on its axis (albeit stiffly) even when you really tighten it down.
I also have a pair of Profoto B600s (and had a B1 that was destroyed in a shoot). After I lost the B1 (insured, but still...) I realized that I could not justify the cost of using and insuring the very expensive Profoto equipment, or explain to myself why it was that much better than the Godox equipment. It's just not - color consistency is a little bit better and so is the build, but when shooting on location under the conditions I often work in, I don't find any noticeable difference on either front - after all, neither system is waterproof.
I don't think Profoto really has anything quite like the AD200. If they did, it would probably cost $2000, instead of the $300 that each Godox unit costs. Look at their A1... $1000 for a speed light? Come on... Now the B600 and B1 are much more powerful, but as a result much heavier (and in the case of the B600, have the inconveniences of a pack-and-head solution). My understanding that the AD600 is comparable to the B1 in terms of power and weight, but again, sells at almost a third of the price.
Every expansion of the Profoto light setup requires major consideration or a rental, while an AD200 is just $300... if it falls in the ocean or gets damaged, I can easily carry one or two backups with me and carry on shooting, and replace the lost unit without shedding too many tears over it.
In other words, I highly recommend the Godox. They're not perfect but they are perfectly usable. I'm no longer so hung up on the higher build quality or alleged color consistency of much higher-end systems costing a lot more.
Based on your posts I never leave the pins exposed. Always travel with the fresnel attached and keep the light tightly bundled. Good luck in the future.
sungphoto wrote:
Depending on the bag I have it in, I’ll usually take the head off. The removable nature of the flash head though seems to me like a long term weak point though even though it makes it more versatile. When one of my heads stop being recognized, I could make it work if I slid the head halfway on and pressed down a little. Hard to say if it’s safer longer term to keep the head mounted though because the amazon seller and Godox didn’t tell me what specifically they think caused the malfunction. They didn’t ask for the malfunctioning ad200 to be sent back though, which made me wonder how widespread the issue is. Seemed like a waste to just throw the malfunctioning one in the trash.
I have since then dropped one of the Godox ad200s from a height of about five feet, bare bulb flash attached, and after replacing the bulb it continues to work fine so that may indicate the issue I had with the flash head not getting recognized anymore was a pure product defect and not from wear (though as a full time photographer I put a lot of usage on all my gear).
MayaTlab wrote:
Perhaps the SMDV BRIHT could be seen as an alternative in your eyes. It's bigger than the AD200, but it remains lighter and more compact than other all in ones.
Many of the AD200's features are quite unique though.
SMDV BRiHT ... had not heard of that before. I'd say that's in the alternative / similar criteria mode. Looks like the diff between the SMDV is that it is using standard mount, while the AD200 will be using the smaller dedicated mount.
Pro's each way.
Thanks for the guidance toward the "alternative".
Checked out some of LegioPhoto's vid's ... some interesting comps for perspective.
jlafferty wrote:
Given your described workflow, which closely mirrors my approach, I highly recommend you start with a single Evolv200 and also invest in the twin head bracket and a single extra bare bulb. Start there. Then, if you find it's fantastic but also at times you want more punch, add another Evolv to either add a stop or halve recycling times.
I used to make a lot of use of the Streaklights, which have been fantastic, and assumed the Evolv would just be a *touch* too little light to be worth my time. Then I got them and started playing. The bottom line is they might be a half stop under the Streaklight (or a third?), but recycle faster. Setup time makes them really fun to work with. And if you have the twin adapter, you can run with a light that is *only a tenth stop* behind the Xplor600, recycles faster, and gives you the option to have a modular and two independently ratioed sources.
In my personal use shooting portraits, beauty and full length movement/fitness/dance, my lightweight kit would be:
2x Evolv
Twin bracket
1 small reflector for a clean hard source
1 6ft umbrella with diffusion for broad soft source or fill
2x kit stands
Depending on your needs maybe an Extra Small Chimera or similar for a soft small source.
The Evolvs, bracket and reflector fit in a shoulder bag. Get a stand bag for stands and umbrellas. It's a really lean go anywhere shoot anything kit!
sungphoto wrote:
As others have said the AD200 is somewhat unique in terms of a price, size, feature and power standpoint. Enough so that I'd argue that it's not a bad idea to pick one up as a cheap on location light.
This is kinda where the appeal is.
The "cheap" part isn't the main driver here. It's the size / feature / power / (seemingly) versatility ... i.e. kind of a "Swiss Army Knife" that while it isn't the tool to fell redwoods, it sure is handy to keep around (personally, I wear a Leatherman ) for whatever might come your way.
