Lisa_Holloway
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friscoron wrote:
This whole thing is one of the many reasons why I'm no longer engaged in FM. This is no different than your "helpful critique" with Kristin Small, with the lovely shots of her daughters that won Featured Thread of the Week. The girls had, as I think Kristin put it, loving, warm smiles. But that wasn't good enough for you. They had to show teeth, or they're wrong. Even after Kristin told you how happy she was with them the way they were, and that it would have felt wrong to show teeth, you persisted. And in the end you basically said to her, "listen to me and learn... or not." Oh my god. Are you really the only person who knows right from wrong in photography? Is there only one way to do things, and that's your way?
As for Lisa not "handling" critique from you, do you think it's possible it's because she's actually happy with the image as it is, and your feedback would actually take away from an incredible image? I don't know if you're aware of how many people are impressed with her work? A lot. She has like 126k followers on IG. I'd compare that to yours but I don't think you even have an IG page. Wait a minute. I decided to check, and you do. You have 12 followers, which puts you about 125,988 followers behind Lisa, give or take or a few hundred.
On your IG profile, it provides a link to your website. Out of curiosity, I went there. You have family pictures, too, which is Lisa's specialty. Despite your location being Hawaii and Lisa being in Kingman, AZ -- which trust me, is the middle of nowhere -- it's amazing how her settings look so much more, well, amazing, than yours. One would expect more when Hawaii is in your backyard. So I'm saying that not just to be a d**k, but rather because in looking at your images on your website, I can see how someone of Lisa's caliber would be less inclined to take feedback from you.
People travel from all over the country to come to Lisa for pictures. They hire her and pay her to travel to them. Her fees from a single session are impressively high. She makes more sometimes from one session than I do in an entire month, and I'm really not doing all that bad. There's a reason she's done so well, and that's because she's damned good.
She has 65 Featured Threads of the Week wins. That puts her about 65 ahead of you. Telling Lisa to be humble so she can take c&c from you is honestly laughable. Reverse this a bit and make yourself the humble one, and think about how you would make your comments to Kristin and Lisa, and the many others before them.
The idea that you know better than Kristin how to photograph her own daughters' smiles better than her absolutely floors me.
The idea that you can improve one of Lisa's images also floors me. There are a lot of photographers at all levels who have paid for Lisa's tutorials. I don't really see anyone lining up outside your door, although you do like to tell us that people come to you for mentoring. Do you also notice that Lisa doesn't even bother mentioning how many people have paid her for those services?
When's the last time an MLB perennial All-Star (MVP of his league) paid you to travel to their house for family pictures?
So you getting all blown out of shape over her not taking your critique like a grownup is really something else. It's provided some laughter behind the scenes, to be honest. Lisa has been extremely cordial in responding to you all this time.
And for the record, Lisa has taken a lot of good meaningful, helpful critiques and applied them over the years. She does it when people actually make the effort to critique the images with Lisa's style in mind, not their own.
One last thing about the kiss between those kids. I totally get it that there are going to be some people who just think that the kids are going to be scarred for life because they innocently kissed in these pictures. It's probably a good thing that LIsa didn't go with a "doctor and nurse" concept or something like that, because you know how kids are. The horror of what may have happened with that concept! (As it's never happened before with children playing by themselves far outside the safe reach of a photoshoot with their parents standing right there watching.)
The kids are going to be okay. They may even kiss again next year. Or not.
So there you go, Greg. You can have the last word now, as you tend to be pretty good with that. You don't have to worry about us using the "Hide Me" feature, as your responses tend to be amusing for us. And oh my gosh, does that mean your respect for me has also vanished? I'm actually trying to help you, trying to help you be more self-aware, trying to help you understand that you don't know the only right way to do things, especially when a mother is taking pictures of her kids, let it be Kristin or Lisa or anyone else. There are other right ways of doing things, many of them. Some we haven't even thought of yet. Some that almost everyone will hate but a few people will cherish. But all that doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter that you've been on FM for 15 years so that must mean you know more than anyone else.
All that matters is that the person who took the picture and edited it, is completely satisfied with the result. And then if the client likes it, that's an added bonus.
What the rest of us think doesn't really matter all that much.
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Thank you SO much, Ron. I saw the comments on Kristin's post and was cringing as well. THANK YOU for saying this. All of it. So appreciated.
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