Okay, one last comment since you brought it up. I've not been active on FM since before I "called you out" and asked you to post images. You did have some nice images on there, but my lack of commenting has to do with my choice not really to be engaged in FM anymore. I did post one last thread, as a few people do like to see my Nutcracker images so I put those up one last time.
As for your thread, with your best images over 15 years, got you some nice comments and even a third place mention in the Featured Thread of the Week. I noticed one of Lisa's usual sessions easily beat you out on Featured Thread.
gheller wrote:
I noticed that you posted (in all CAPS) that you don't want C&C on your images (which is totally fine). But did you know that it stands for "Comments and Critiques"?
CC historical refers to "constructive criticism". Just clarifying.
Goodness gracious. You all evidently need to clutch your pearls and sniff some smelling salts. So much digital ink dedicated to ad hominem rubbish.
That said, these are really cool pictures. The photography and visualization are really nicely done. The window silhouettes and window-lit shots are just exceptional - almost haunting.
I just want to say that I don't mind constructive criticism or comments -- as long as I'm not hassled for not taking it. Lisa's work is 2nd to none (this set included,) and it means a lot for a photographer to be satisfied with their product. In that case, what good does it do to give an unwanted opinion? I, personally, am OK with my girls not smiling with their teeth. To get them to do otherwise is like PULLING teeth sometimes, but I do understand why those shots are also valuable. My girls are a bit ridiculous about what I post of them, so any toothy grin will likely get the veto. For standard portraits, I am much more apt to see them in all my subjects.
Honestly, I'm haven't been very active here, either, and hesitate to give CC unless it's requested. Isn't that the standard practice? Anyway, here is an appropriate toothy grin of my aforementioned resister (in a totally appropriate pose):
KristinSmall wrote:
... it means a lot for a photographer to be satisfied with their product.
I have had the privilege to work with and be mentored by some excellent people photographers, including Jim McCrary and Norman Seef. One characteristic I noticed, which they share with other well known photographers, is they were never satisfied with their work.
KristinSmall wrote:
In that case, what good does it do to give an unwanted opinion?
This is the internet. Whatever you do, you will get unsolicited opinions. The trick is to pay attention to those opinions, weighing them against your goals. Sometimes helpful opinions come from unexpected places. The other trick is to accept opinions gracefully, even if you don't agree with them. This is something you do. See below:
KristinSmall wrote:
I, personally, am OK with my girls not smiling with their teeth. To get them to do otherwise is like PULLING teeth sometimes, but I do understand why those shots are also valuable. My girls are a bit ridiculous about what I post of them, so any toothy grin will likely get the veto. For standard portraits, I am much more apt to see them in all my subjects.
BTW, Greg was his usual tactful and polite self when he originally requested toothy grins. The lovely portrait you posted proves he was onto something! ;-)
Bonus: Jim McCrary was an excellent photographer and a generous man. I was privileged to know him. Here's some of his famous album covers.
Wow, that's sad IMO. I am never completely satisfied with my overall work in the sense that I am always working to improve and I think that is true of Lisa and pretty much everyone who takes the art seriously. I was referring to being satisfied and happy with pieces of work we produce. That is just a reward for our efforts and I hope it happens for everyone at times.
This is the internet. Whatever you do, you will get unsolicited opinions. The trick is to pay attention to those opinions, weighing them against your goals. Sometimes helpful opinions come from unexpected places. The other trick is to accept opinions gracefully, even if you don't agree with them. This is something you do. See below:
BTW, Greg was his usual tactful and polite self when he originally requested toothy grins. The lovely portrait you posted proves he was onto something! ;-)
Bonus: Jim McCrary was an excellent photographer and a generous man. I was privileged to know him. Here's some of his famous album covers....Show more →
Honestly, he is not on to anything. My point is that sometimes a toothy smile works or is necessary and other times not. It's not a particular goal for me, though I understand that it is for him and that's fine. (If interested, you can see a lot more teeth on my blog.)
As for CC, I give it and receive it. I won't if someone specifically does not want it or if I am not sure it's desired. Thanks for the comments.
dmacmillan wrote:
One characteristic I noticed, which they share with other well known photographers, is they were never satisfied with their work.
I hope that's misunderstood to mean that they are never satisfied with with their current skill levels and that they are always striving to get better.
If a photographer is never satisfied with their work, holy cow, that must be a miserable person. To put in all the work that we do, to learn as much as we do, to take all those pictures and carefully spend the time editing them, and then no to be satisfied with the result? I wouldn't want to live with that person.
KristinSmall wrote:
Honestly, he is not on to anything.
That comment was meant as a compliment to your daughter and should be taken as that. Greg is "on to something" to realize that your daughters more than likely have lovely smiles.
Thanks again for your support in this great community
I'll say it again, I do have respect for Lisa and Kristin's work, but no matter how seasoned we are, we can all benefit from input from other people's viewpoint
I think it's important that we have playful banter, keeps all of us grounded, but when profanity is involved, that's when we cross the line
gheller wrote:
Thanks again for your support in this great community
Great community? This community is dead compared to what it was 5 or 6 years ago. And I attribute that to the contentious critiques coming from the likes of you. You have to be right, people have to learn from your viewpoint. It does not seem possible that your critiques can ever be wrong. "Listen to me and learn... or not" as you put it.
You call me Lisa's fanboy simply because I don't agree with you. Think of that? You insult me just because I'm trying to help you learn something? I'd really hope you can learn to be more self-aware of how your critiques -- and your pompous attitude -- can be received, esp when people aren't open to your critiques.
You've continued to try to make your point that Kristin's girls have better smiles when the teeth are showing, even after she has repeatedly said she's really happy with them the way they were, and that open-mouthed smiles would seem weird in the context of that shoot. Which I agree with her. That's not relevant, however, as it was her shoot, and she gets to decide how it goes. Especially when she's photographing her daughters.
You even make a point of saying that you appreciate all the support you're getting in this discussion. Frankly, I'm not really seeing much. Not that I care, because it doesn't make you right or wrong. It just means some people agree with your opinion. And your opinion doesn't really matter when the photographer is already satisfied with the shot and so are her clients.
And as for Lisa, seriously. It's too bad we couldn't have a shootout so you could prove how much better of a photographer you are than her. Personally, I'd find the idea laughable, but whatever. Just grow up and leave her alone. You say you're so busy, why are you wasting so much time and energy just trying to get on her nerves? What do you get out of it? (Don't answer, it's rhetoric.)
friscoron wrote:
Great community? This community is dead compared to what it was 5 or 6 years ago. And I attribute that to the contentious critiques coming from the likes of you. You have to be right, people have to learn from your viewpoint. It does not seem possible that your critiques can ever be wrong. "Listen to me and learn... or not" as you put it.
You call me Lisa's fanboy simply because I don't agree with you. Think of that? You insult me just because I'm trying to help you learn something? I'd really hope you can learn to be more self-aware of how your critiques -- and your pompous attitude -- can be received, esp when people aren't open to your critiques.
You've continued to try to make your point that Kristin's girls have better smiles when the teeth are showing, even after she has repeatedly said she's really happy with them the way they were, and that open-mouthed smiles would seem weird in the context of that shoot. Which I agree with her. That's not relevant, however, as it was her shoot, and she gets to decide how it goes. Especially when she's photographing her daughters.
You even make a point of saying that you appreciate all the support you're getting in this discussion. Frankly, I'm not really seeing much. Not that I care, because it doesn't make you right or wrong. It just means some people agree with your opinion. And your opinion doesn't really matter when the photographer is already satisfied with the shot and so are her clients.
And as for Lisa, seriously. It's too bad we couldn't have a shootout so you could prove how much better of a photographer you are than her. Personally, I'd find the idea laughable, but whatever. Just grow up and leave her alone. You say you're so busy, why are you wasting so much time and energy just trying to get on her nerves? What do you get out of it? (Don't answer, it's rhetoric.) ...Show more →
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Well said sir.
There are a few others on this forum that should take your advice as well.
friscoron wrote:
Great community? This community is dead compared to what it was 5 or 6 years ago. et on her nerves? What do you get out of it? (Don't answer, it's rhetoric.)
Matt Anderson wrote:
Wonderful series Lisa!
Where is this church ? I must visit this year...
Matt! It's in Eastern Montana. Kremlin. VERY hard to find, need GPS coordinates. You will drive down countless miles of unmarked farm roads that look exactly the same as the last and the next...
I'm surprised our sorry asses found it...honestly. lol
