p.36 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
I was undecided, but tending toward "no". I've decided that it's definitely "no". No real benefit for me, other than the better viewfinder, which is nice but I wouldn't upgrade just for that.
I'll play wait-n-see: either an A9R with at least 70-80 MP (although that will include a ton of stuff that I don't want, such as high speed and so forth), or a Fuji GFX when they come out with a 100 MP upgrade. The latter isn't ideal since I like sticking with one system, but I think it would be a good choice for dedicated landscape, with the present A7RII for everything else....Show more →
If I was not a Pro and my life was shooting landscape for me and some print sales. I would certainly be shooting Medium Format again. I do like the sizing and lenses though of the Hassy XLD and i could get along with there software.
I read what i just wrote and want to retire and do just that.
p.36 #2 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
Well Sony has a 50mpx CMOS already in Play for Medium format and I have not been paying attention but I think 100mpx as well. Now if you took the 100mpx and cut it to 24x35 not sure what that gives us but this is also different technology too so not sure they can take that and actually use it in 35mm. Problem or could be a problem is getting a 60mpx 35mm format with pixels wells that small. So maybe until that tech comes along we are in a holding pattern. But like to leave that really up to our engineers here to explain this far better than me. i know when to get off the bus and ask for directions. ...Show more →
If they can double/triple the A9 speed in combination of new pixels shift tricks then they can turn the A9 sensor into a resolution plus DR monster.
p.36 #3 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
If I was not a Pro and my life was shooting landscape for me and some print sales. I would certainly be shooting Medium Format again. I do like the sizing and lenses though of the Hassy XLD and i could get along with there software.
I read what i just wrote and want to retire and do just that.
I shot mainly 4x5 and 617 for many years (I switched to digital only in 2015), so these are all miniature cameras to me. Which is nice, after lugging all the big stuff around - I just want higher res than 42 MP for the stuff that I license for posters, murals, etc!
p.36 #4 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
I’m actually worried I won’t get mine from Amazon on day one even though I was on it at the bell to order. Watched it come up on their site.
p.36 #5 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I think for photographers who move AF point around a lot, the toggle is going to be a lot bigger deal than it appears. If you are shooting static objects, e.g., landscapes, stills, studio, the 3 isn't that big of a deal over the 2. But for movement, I know that AF toggle sold me on the Fuji XT2 - and in practical use, it's invaluable.
If I heard the Sony rep correctly in the release video, the AF sensitivity at the edges is also improved. Again, that's a big deal for moving subjects where a photographer shoots an off-center subject a lot.
Another thing that may not be a big deal for static shooters is the dual slots. Even my older Canon and Nikons had dual slots from years back. In the field of critical, no do-overs shooting, dual slots is a must-have feature.
And 10fps for moving subjects can make all the difference when you are shooting movement looking for unexpected moments. I don't need 20fps (might as well shoot video) but 10fps is a sweet spot. I found 5fps far too slow on the A7R2 - that's at least a decade old frame rate.
The short life battery of the A7R2 was something that could be dealt with by carrying twice as many batteries but, putting a 2X battery in the 3 was a relief - as well as - did I see this right? - a grip that gives the body three batteries instead of 2. The X-T2 does the three battery setup with its grip - and, again, in the field on a 6 or 8 hour job, you can just keep going instead of stressing about changing a battery. So, I was very pleased at these particular features.
p.36 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
As for making bodies with even more MP, there is going to be a huge file storage issue. There already is a huge file storage issue at 24MP and 36MP and 45MP. I already had to get an 8TB external storage drive and have mirrored RAID built into a 12-core new Mac. The expenses aren't just in the camera but also the extended equipment and software to handle the new experience. I'm having to go back to downsizing my images to prevent overloading image space on my website.
p.36 #7 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
pasblues wrote:
I think for photographers who move AF point around a lot, the toggle is going to be a lot bigger deal than it appears. If you are shooting static objects, e.g., landscapes, stills, studio, the 3 isn't that big of a deal over the 2. But for movement, I know that AF toggle sold me on the Fuji XT2 - and in practical use, it's invaluable.
If I heard the Sony rep correctly in the release video, the AF sensitivity at the edges is also improved. Again, that's a big deal for moving subjects where a photographer shoots an off-center subject a lot.
Another thing that may not be a big deal for static shooters is the dual slots. Even my older Canon and Nikons had dual slots from years back. In the field of critical, no do-overs shooting, dual slots is a must-have feature.
And 10fps for moving subjects can make all the difference when you are shooting movement looking for unexpected moments. I don't need 20fps (might as well shoot video) but 10fps is a sweet spot. I found 5fps far too slow on the A7R2 - that's at least a decade old frame rate.
The short life battery of the A7R2 was something that could be dealt with by carrying twice as many batteries but, putting a 2X battery in the 3 was a relief - as well as - did I see this right? - a grip that gives the body three batteries instead of 2. The X-T2 does the three battery setup with its grip - and, again, in the field on a 6 or 8 hour job, you can just keep going instead of stressing about changing a battery. So, I was very pleased at these particular features.
5fps was enough speed for me but the blackout between frames made it unusable. I hope they fixed that to at least equal a DSLR in the R3. I had 10fps in my older Canon 1D3 but it was overkill when I used it at that rate. Too many frames that were identical.
p.36 #8 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
pasblues wrote:
As for making bodies with even more MP, there is going to be a huge file storage issue. There already is a huge file storage issue at 24MP and 36MP and 45MP. I already had to get an 8TB external storage drive and have mirrored RAID built into a 12-core new Mac. The expenses aren't just in the camera but also the extended equipment and software to handle the new experience. I'm having to go back to downsizing my images to prevent overloading image space on my website.
File storage is something we all have to deal with in any event. Portable storage when I'm shooting on remote locations is a bigger hassle than at home. If the new R3 does prove good enough to replace my Canon 5D, then I'm going to be doubling or tripling my storage needs on my lifestyle shoots! However after delivery of the jobs I'm going to have to start culling rejects more aggressively before archiving. It's easy to just keep every frame but getting out of control now with every file 80 megabytes.
p.36 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
tn1krr wrote:
Going from 42 MP to 60 MP is much less increase than going from 24 to 42 given that the resolution is linear a quantity; you'd need about 75 MP to get similar a real/significant resolution increase like 24 => 42. Current cameras seem to be limited in terms of how much data they can move (sensor ==> buffer/SoC ==> card) so with a 60-70 MP camera you would lose FPS and maybe even AF update frequency from sensor. So such camera would only be a 5DS R competitor; and that marker is much smaller than the one occupied by D850, 5D Mk IV etc.
Sony could propably somewhat easily cut bigger pieces from the same wafer that the high end camera sensors are made of, to even go over 100 MP, but building a usable camera around such sensor is a different game. So they would propably end up with a camera that handles more like MF camera, but without any of the benefits that the MF sensor size brings. ...Show more →
I agree with the math. However, in practical terms the gain in resolution should be more noticeable going from 24MP to 42MP than 42MP to 75MP and the reason is because at these very high frequencies, our lenses will be the limiting factor.
p.36 #11 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
At 75MP full frame -- diffraction sets in around f/5.6 (on a well corrected lens).
I think one reason you don't see really high sharpness scores on DXO for the 5dsr is that diffraction is already a big issue at f/11 and smaller, which means less % of accutance at those apetures (as they call it). So that is taken into account in their weighting.
p.36 #12 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
elimoss wrote:
At 75MP full frame -- diffraction sets in around f/5.6 (on a well corrected lens).
I think one reason you don't see really high sharpness scores on DXO for the 5dsr is that diffraction is already a big issue at f/11 and smaller, which means less % of accutance at those apetures (as they call it). So that is taken into account in their weighting.
Diffraction would be exactly the same for a 24MP or 75MP sensor since it's dictated by the lens aperture. However, I agree that with more megapixels, it becomes more apparent at wider apertures. Same for all other aberrations since we are basically magnifying the flaws.
45-55MP seems to be the current sweet spot right now as far as sensor and lens technology.
p.36 #14 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Matt Grum wrote:
It's a great camera for anyone switching systems or upgrading from one of the older models. If you already own an A7RII then it's a smallish upgrade. I'm in the latter category, so what I'd be getting is essentially:
Dual card slots. Huge benefit for doing paid work.
Af joystick. Big improvement in usability for the way I work.
Bigger battery. Not personally that bothered (have a lot of FW50s already).
10 fps. Nice but I wouldn't use it much.
Improved AF - always nice to have.
Pixel shift. Nice but wouldn't use it much.
Video improvements. Don't use video very much but maybe that will change.
Some minor features/improvements (EVF, touchscreen, buffer, speed, electronic shutter in burst mode, anti-flicker).
So the big ones are dual card slots and AF. I said before the announcement I would upgrade for these alone, and I still will. But what I really wanted was:
60MP - that gives 24MP in crop mode and gives all the advantages of APS-C and FF in one body.
Faster electronic shutter - maybe not as fast as the A9, but an improvement over 1/13s.
ISO 50 / deeper well depth. Despite what Sony have said, it looks like DR will be pretty much the same as the mkII.
p.36 #15 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Fred, I agree that lens performance may just be the limiting option moving past 50mp. If that is the case, lots of Sony, Canon and Nikon fans are going to be disappointed. If it means an entire new generation of lenses again, the cost may be prohibitive and heading into medium format territory.
p.36 #16 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Gunzorro wrote:
I agree with your assessment, Fred. That 36MP Sony sensor was a seismic shift in imaging. And certainly the mirrorless revolution has benefited Sony's FF approach.
Still, I feel the Canon 5Ds's 51MP sensor gets short shrift on its resolution, mostly due to perceived shortcomings in its DR. It seems to me that now after the release of the D850 and a7R3, the ball is clearly in Canon's court to deliver a 60-70MP (or more) sensor with somewhat improved DR, continuing their dominance of high resolution and challenging "medium format" imaging.
Yes, the Canon 5DSR has more resolution but I was not referring to only that.
When the Nikon D800 and later Sony A7R were introduced, the major leap was in dynamic range (as well as resolution) and since then, improvements have been more gradual.
It was the main reason I switched to the Sony A7R and even today, the A7RII is my preferred camera system.
Remember this? https://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html
Another smaller jump was with Nikon's ISO 64 and I'm not sure why Sony didn't follow that bandwagon. One of the reasons could be because Sony didn't want to sacrifice DR at mid and high ISO sensitivity.
p.36 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Yes, my jump from the A7R to the A7RII was for many of the fixes and feature additions (like IBIS), definitely not for any IQ increase.
This is the same reason I'm jumping from the A7RII to the A7RIII.
We really need to identify these models as A7R, A7R2, A7R3 as that's easier to see in these posts (but I'm getting old . . .)
p.36 #18 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Fred Miranda wrote:
45-55MP seems to be the current sweet spot right now as far as sensor and lens technology..
I suspect that this is the main reason Sony hasn't pushed for a high MP sensor for this camera. There are some improvements that can be gained by moving to a higher MP sensor, but really, only at the center of the frame, and only at ideal apertures.
p.36 #19 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
stevesanacore wrote:
Fred, I agree that lens performance may just be the limiting option moving past 50mp. If that is the case, lots of Sony, Canon and Nikon fans are going to be disappointed. If it means an entire new generation of lenses again, the cost may be prohibitive and heading into medium format territory.
Yes, or pushing people to move up to one of the MF formats. Maybe Sony ought to start developing a system for that.
I think it's pretty clear that the manufacturing tolerances in 35mm optics are being tested with the current technology sensors, and I doubt there is much to be gained without considerable change in manufacturing, or a change in optical science (like image stabilization and DO optics have done in the past).
I'm a bit surprised Sony put OSS into the new 24-105 lens... The camera bodies now have IBIS, and while I'm sure it does improve IS to add OSS to the lens, it also complicates the optical path and probably has a negative impact on the upper performance thresholds that the lens could achieve if the additional elements weren't there to generate OSS. It also adds size and cost to the lens, so the decision to put it in is not taken lightly, I'm sure.
On balance, they surely believe that the gain from OSS is more than the loss of adding the elements to the lens, and they are probably right.
p.36 #20 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
mttran wrote:
Sony've already fixed it last firmware by reducing the stops down to correct the focus shifting & low light issues for some lenses. Also, A7Riii now can AF 1 stops better than A7Rii in low light.
I haven't seen much of an improvement since I picked up another a7r2 to play around with. Still lags far behind dslrs in a studio situation in terms of stopped down AF. Hopefully the A7r3 fixes it, because this camera has gotten my attention with dual card slots and a better buffer.
