p.13 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
chez wrote:
I wonder why they are removing the apps from the latest generation of cameras? Is it because the A9 and A7R3 are viewed a "professional" cameras and having apps makes them appear geared towards the iphone crowd? Is there a limitation in the new cameras of some sort? Did Sony have a lot of complaints about these apps requiring a lot of extra customer support?
Wish they would come out and let us know what made them decide to remove the apps from the latest camera releases.
They should have improved on the apps functionality and concept, and not take the opposite direction and remove them completely!
Some of these apps are not gimmicks and imo Sony failed to see this. An alternative would be to include the functionality of some of the apps into the camera menu system. (Smooth Reflections and Time Lapse for example). I don't see that happening...
p.13 #2 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I'm a bit surprised there's no refresh to the other A7 series models. The A7ii is nearly three years old now, and arguably needs the most attention, but perhaps it still sells well at its price point.
The A7ii is still a pretty capable camera, but its low light focusing lags severely behind the others.
Auto ISO could use some attention, and I'm sure they could apply some other updates via firmware to help keep this camera relevant. Will they though?
p.13 #3 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
taemo wrote:
not disagreeing with you on that, and definitely if there's some technical limitations with the current cameras that have been resolved with the new one for you.then it is worth it.
just that a majority of enthusiasts just buys the latest and greatest out there expecting that their photos will turn out award winning images.
technically they might but artistically it still depends on the photographer
p.13 #5 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Also surprised the A7riii was released before the A7iii but I assume Sony feels they can sell more cameras by doing so in this order. Or at least more of the more expensive R camera by releasing them in this order.
I suspect a A7iii will follow.
p.13 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
It's not my business, but still feels worth commenting that this site and the people who use it are different than most of the others. Apologies are rare on the internet. Bravo to those involved for civility.
drewmey wrote:
Sorry, never said and certainly never intended to imply that you couldn't take sharp photos. I am sorry if it came across that way. I was never talking about sharp images. I was always talking about maximizing the resolving power of high MP sensors at shutter speeds that aren't super fast. Personally, I can't even do it with my measly 24MP sensor. The tripod photo almost always has slightly more resolution. I never put down Sony. I never put down IBIS. I never claimed anyone's images weren't sharp. Obviously the intent of my comments has not come across clearly.
p.13 #8 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I agree ... and I am surprised they did this. I love Smooth Reflection.
Fred Miranda wrote:
They should have improved on the apps functionality and concept, and not take the opposite direction and remove them completely!
Some of these apps are not gimmicks and imo Sony failed to see this. An alternative would be to include the functionality of some of the apps into the camera menu system. (Smooth Reflections and Time Lapse for example). I don't see that happening...
p.13 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
A7R3 seems like a nice upgrade, but nothing earth-shattering. It is obvious that Sony continue to following their differentiated product strategy. I wish they would put all the goodies in one camera.
While there is lots to love, including the lower price, I'm keeping my A9 for now, at least until the AF system on this machine has been thoroughly vetted.
p.13 #10 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
This pixel shift is actually quite simple, but really ends up being pretty complex once you get it all running in a manner to implement on the scale of a camera like this!
Each shot is multiplied by four, but what it allows is the R,G, and B values at each pixel location (in the image, not on the sensor) can be generated from actual direct R, G, and B filtered photo sites on the sensor, because it is being shifted over by one pixel for each shot.
Let's take a sensor that has 16 pixels (4x4):
Assuming the sensor is Bayer filtered, this is what the 4x4 sensor arrangement might look like:
1 2 3 4
a B G B G
b G R G R
c B G B G
d G R G R
Location #1a is a native B location and to get G and R values it needs to interpolate or copy nearby values. Similarly for all the rest of the locations on the sensor. So, location #1a in the RAW file is viably a native value and doesn't need interpolation.
To get a native G value for location #1a, you have to shift the sensor to the left one pixel and make a capture. The "0" column represents the column in the image file that is now "off" the image to the left. Notice that the "4" column is not getting any information from the sensor as well when shifted in this position.
0 1 2 3 4
a B G B G
b G R G R
c B G B G
d G R G R
But what you can see is that location #1a has a G filtered photosite, so you get that data directly now.
Do this again, but shift the sensor up, and you will get an R filtered photosite in the location #1a spot. Do this one more time, but shift to the right, and you will get a second G filtered photosite in location #1a.
At that point, all you have to do is extract the B, G, and R values from each file for the original Location #1a position. No interpolation is required. Similarly, all the other locations have been covered during this recording process, so you can construct a full 14-bit RGB image file from the data and not have any interpolation happening at each pixel location.
The fourth image capture in the sequence is interesting... It is unnecessary to produce an uninterpolated TIFF or PS file. You only need three image captures to do this. This fourth capture essentially allows the software to add a layer of oversampling (noise reduction) to the image channels, but only to one channel per final image pixel on it's own.
I suspect that the sensor is too noisy use the photosites from the sensor directly without any interpolation so I'll bet they are also combining averaged values for each pixel location (in the same way that normal Bayer filtration works) to add noise reduction to the image. This could be tested by someone who has the gumption to do it by writing a program to do the extraction and compilation of the data from a quad of these pixel shifted RAW files using absolutely no interpolation to see what the image looks like.
p.13 #12 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
mreynolds767 wrote:
Also surprised the A7riii was released before the A7iii but I assume Sony feels they can sell more cameras by doing so in this order. Or at least more of the more expensive R camera by releasing them in this order.
I suspect a A7iii will follow.
Having watched the Sony Press Release Video and the panel they assembled I'd say Sony is billing this is the new jack of all trades camera.
2 years ago the R line was a high megapixel, quite capable camera, but always better suited to slower moving photography. Sony said so themselves (during the presser) that two years is an eternity in camera tech. Now they pump up the speed and handling essentially give us the camera we all wanted 2 years ago.
So that leaves us with the a73 being the budget FF (with features removed).
And I argue it leaves room above the a7R3 for the resolution boost most people expected from the a7R series.
This to me is the ultimate (and crass) play for our dollars. To get people to buy multiple bodies, in a sense chasing after features as they trickle out. I know there were many people who purchased the a9 because it offered the speed and handling and QoL features that the a7r2 lacked, but these folks would have preferred the resolution to be at least the same or equal. Did they get a lot for their money in the a9? Sure they did, it's a beast in terms of speed, but maybe they woudl have traded some of that speed more more resolution. In waltzes the a7R3. And the a9 people buy a a7r3.
Now, depending on how fast the a7r3 really is (af, drive, slient, no-blackout and all the combinations thereof), Sony may have put enough into this camera to keep people from needing more resolution. But for fine art work, and landscapers who chase resolution and definition the a7r3 doesn't offer as much. So it's not hard to imagine an a9r release in 9 months that does. Forcing, once again sony users to trade up with a load of cash for another camera.
TLDR: Sony keeps giving us just enough to chase and purchase and use, but maybe never quite enough to make our wildest dreams come true so we buy more cameras than we would if they gave us big updates say every 4 or 5 years. There will be people who buy 4 cameras in 4 years if a hypothetical a9 appears. a7r2 -> a9 -> a7r3 -> a9r. That's a lot of scratch.
p.13 #13 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I think the primary reason for the removal of the apps from recent cameras is the fact that hackers were able to manipulate the camera software via the app installation and Sony figured the best way to fix it to remove it completely.
Fred Miranda wrote:
They should have improved on the apps functionality and concept, and not take the opposite direction and remove them completely!
Some of these apps are not gimmicks and imo Sony failed to see this. An alternative would be to include the functionality of some of the apps into the camera menu system. (Smooth Reflections and Time Lapse for example). I don't see that happening...
p.13 #15 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
mreynolds767 wrote:
Also surprised the A7riii was released before the A7iii but I assume Sony feels they can sell more cameras by doing so in this order. Or at least more of the more expensive R camera by releasing them in this order.
I suspect a A7iii will follow.
I see this happening a lot in the microchip industry. They usually release the top of the line product first (ie intel i7 or Nvidia 1080) then follow up with mid-tier and then consumer-tier options. It makes sense to get people excited about their expensive premium products and then introduce an affordable option with some of the features of the premium at a more attractive price. People may be less likely to buy the top of the line expensive product if they already have a lower end that costs a fraction of it.
p.13 #16 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Justin Stone wrote:
TLDR: Sony keeps giving us just enough to chase and purchase and use, but maybe never quite enough to make our wildest dreams come true so we buy more cameras than we would if they gave us big updates say every 4 or 5 years.
Having a choice is always good IMO, so people can just skip a “generation” to get a bigger update. I much prefer the Sony way than Canon coming out with a new constrained upgrade every 4 years.
p.13 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I'd argue this is more sophisticated than just top-tier to mid to low.
This is like a lattice, moving up and down, with the top out of reach, unless you buy multiple bodies.
Duckysaysquack wrote:
I see this happening a lot in the microchip industry. They usually release the top of the line product (ie intel i7 or Nvidia 1080) then follow up with mid-tier and then consumer-tier options. It makes sense to get people excited about their expensive premium products and then introduce an affordable option with some of the features of the premium at a more attractive price.
p.13 #18 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
mreynolds767 wrote:
Also surprised the A7riii was released before the A7iii but I assume Sony feels they can sell more cameras by doing so in this order. Or at least more of the more expensive R camera by releasing them in this order.
I suspect a A7iii will follow.
Maybe the 850 had some influence on the release timing of the A7R3.
p.13 #19 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Stoffer wrote:
Having a choice is always good IMO, so people can just skip a “generation” to get a bigger update. I much prefer the Sony way than Canon coming out with a new constrained upgrade every 4 years.
Canon's upgrades are way more incremental and you still have to wait 4 years... lol
