ggreene wrote:
My experience says otherwise. If you want to say it's anecdotal fine. I'm not Lensrental so I can't make broad comparisons but I've had two 1D2's, two 1D4's, a 1DX, a 7D2, and a 1DX2 now. All of them have had sensors that accumulated dirt/debris/oil/etc. The 1DX2 does not look out of the norm to me then any of the others.
Like i said, there was a camera i checked that seemed fine (yes also at F32 and dehaze). Nothing special, but my body, and that of some others are really bad. So your camera may be just fine as well. Add to that that my CPS rep acknowledged the issue and is currently gathering images from everyone that claims to have an issue to send it to canon UK. My story is also backed by Arthur Morris and several other photographers.
But i'm going to let it rest here as it seems that a few get annoyed. I'll leave it to you guys.
dehowie, could you please upload an image from your 1DX II taken at f22 or smaller? you can crank up the dehaze/contrast, but you don't have to if you feel it's extreme. The point is to see if you have oil on your sensor, or just dust. I don't think anyone who has contributed to this forum expects their camera to remain dust free - far from it. But lubricant depositing on the sensor isn't to be expected. Maybe a couple of drops between cleanings, fine. But what some folks have shown on this thread is extreme. If you post a picture that shows your camera doesn't exhibit this problem, I think we would all be very interested.
dehowie wrote:
I cant think of a single digital camera that has ever hit the market that at F32, +100
Iike dehaze etc on settings wouldnt show spots.
Its becoming tiresome and simply ridiculous we have people in the photography community who are more intent on editing files to criteria that nobody would ever use in one thousand lifetimes then complain.
Nobody else may say it but i will happily call them out.
I have shot with the 1DxMk2 from -40 to +35 some 200,000 images and never seen an issue with two apparantly earthquake affected first off the line bodies delivering images covered with lines and spots.
Dehaze +100, clarity +100 equalized dehazed spots...wow great conclusion now tell me something we all didnt know 15 years ago
I can put up one hundred plus great images to every one if your over exposed, over equalized, over clarity functioned, dehazed over contrasted photos of grey skies.
Its getting boring guys...
You want a dust free camera try the Nikon F5 or F100.
Even better go clean your sensor in an operating theatre with a white robe and mask on then try capturing great images of flouro tubes on the ceiling at F32.
You can then spend hours bleating on an whining about how operating theatres are truly unclean environments and how operations are unsafe because no matter how hard you try dust is every where.
But let me guess 200,000 Mk2 images several speads and covers means i probably have no input either because i want images to look real not contorted bizarre creations.
Unbelievable.
If you're happy paying thousands for a camera that has a defect in the sensor stack and has an issue with dust and oil, then fine...good for you. The reason why people are using Dehaze at 100% is to emphasize the problem to people like YOU who refuse to acknowledge that some 1DX Mark II owners may be having an issue. These issues persist without Dehaze, including the sensor lines. They will still appear faintly on a blue or grey sky. This should not happen, ever.
All I can say to people like you who come and bash people with legitimate issues is that I hope you experience something like this at some point too. It's pretty hilarious that instead of offering anything useful or constructive, such as just saying "Mine doesn't have these issues, and here's a picture to prove it" you go on the full attack. Pathetic.
ggreene wrote:
My experience says otherwise. If you want to say it's anecdotal fine. I'm not Lensrental so I can't make broad comparisons but I've had two 1D2's, two 1D4's, a 1DX, a 7D2, and a 1DX2 now. All of them have had sensors that accumulated dirt/debris/oil/etc. The 1DX2 does not look out of the norm to me then any of the others.
I don't know about 1D models other than the 1DX and 1DX Mark II, but I've not seen an issue like this on any other model.
Again, the sensor can be cleaned on these cameras and in a period of a few minutes of burst shooting look like it's been sand blasted with dust or oil all over again, especially in the top left-hand corner. You bring up your experience with cameras over 14 years, so I can bring up mine -- never have I seen or owned camera models where this sheer amount of debris gets thrown on the sensors so quickly and so readily. I've shot with my own personal 5D3, 5DsR, as well as a loaned 7D2, and while they all got some dust, they've paled in comparison to what the 1DXs (both Mark I and II) get on their sensors. My old 5D2 and 7D Mark I also never had an issue anything like this.
This comes back around to the point I made earlier: a lot of people with these cameras probably don't ever narrow their apertures, preferring to shoot wide open for sports or other actions-type photography. However, if you shoot landscapes, air shows, or group shoots which require narrow apertures, this is a legitimate problem. Furthermore, the sensor lines just shouldn't happen, period. It doesn't matter what kind of shooting you do, or whether it takes editing to make them show up; it's a defect and it shouldn't be there. People should not make excuses for this, especially on a flagship model.
If people don't have oil or dust spots, and the sensor line issue, I am genuinely happy for you. If you want to help or contribute please post a photo showing or proving the issue doesn't exist for you! It helps the people who are affected narrow down the issues that way, and it shows Canon hasn't indeed made a lemon.
My personal reason for asking folks for sample photos and testimonials is to try and figure out if this problem was limited to an early run of cameras, or if it has at least been addressed in current production runs. If Canon had issued a service advisory, this would be a non-issue; one could simply track down their serial number to see if it was in the affected production cycle. Canon's silence and denial of the issue altogether makes buying this camera feel like Russian roulette, and makes asking other users for their experience necessary given the high price tag of this model.
ivanku wrote:
My personal reason for asking folks for sample photos and testimonials is to try and figure out if this problem was limited to an early run of cameras, or if it has at least been addressed in current production runs. If Canon had issued a service advisory, this would be a non-issue; one could simply track down their serial number to see if it was in the affected production cycle. Canon's silence and denial of the issue altogether makes buying this camera feel like Russian roulette, and makes asking other users for their experience necessary given the high price tag of this model....Show more →
Yet another reason why it would be nice if more 1DX Mark II users could help out. It doesn’t matter if you agree or don’t agree that there’s an issue. A simple photo will speak for itself.
"If people don't have oil or dust spots, and the sensor line issue, I am genuinely happy for you. If you want to help or contribute please post a photo showing or proving the issue doesn't exist for you! It helps the people who are affected narrow down the issues that way, and it shows Canon hasn't indeed made a lemon."
"Yet another reason why it would be nice if more 1DX Mark II users could help out. It doesn’t matter if you agree or don’t agree that there’s an issue. A simple photo will speak for itself. "
I see. So saying we've examined our camera and see no issue isn't good enough. We must now "prove" what we say is true?
You're not on trial, you don't need to prove anything. Would it be helpful to a lot of us if you posted a couple of pictures? Yes, it definitely would. So it's just a matter of whether or not you feel like helping us out.
Mickey wrote:
"If people don't have oil or dust spots, and the sensor line issue, I am genuinely happy for you. If you want to help or contribute please post a photo showing or proving the issue doesn't exist for you! It helps the people who are affected narrow down the issues that way, and it shows Canon hasn't indeed made a lemon."
"Yet another reason why it would be nice if more 1DX Mark II users could help out. It doesn’t matter if you agree or don’t agree that there’s an issue. A simple photo will speak for itself. "
I see. So saying we've examined our camera and see no issue isn't good enough. We must now "prove" what we say is true?...Show more →
Why not help and show us? Someone in this thread already stated they didn’t have the problem, went back and actually looked, and found their sensor was filthy.
I’m asking people to actually check, not just go off the fact they haven’t noticed any issues with their particular shooting style and commonly used settings. Narrow your apertures and take a pic of a blue or grey sky. It’s not that hard.
Why not help us out?
Usually when people make claims about something it takes proof to back it up. I’m saying there’s a problem here most people aren’t acknowledging, and I’m trying to prove it. I have shared many photos from different cameras here. If you legitimately don’t have a problem, help us! I have been sending photos to Canon, and if you don’t have a problem then I can send it to Canon and say “Hey, here’s one without the issue!”. This helps us users narrow things down, and if there’s a particular bad patch of cameras it brings it to light for both us affected and potentially Canon who might eventually do something. Wouldn’t that be in everyone’s best interests?
I received my official Gel Stick today and went after my 1DxII sensor with it. There is a very marked improvement. Just a couple of observations...
1. If there is debris along the edge the gel stick which has rounded edges doesnt necessarily pick that up. You have to really go after it to get at it.
2. Because I cant see things up close with my glasses on, I take them off, but then I still cant really see where I am getting after it.
3. I tend to bump the edge of the gel stick into the edge of the area surrounding the sensor and believe that I put new debris on it.
4. After I got the stuff around the edge where it was virtually gone, I found that somehow a new piece got in the middle.
5. Got the middle piece out but found some new debris along the edge, very few but all the same its there.
My conclusion, you cant get 100% of it as it is like the "whack a mole" game, knock one off, another crops up. But you can get it good enough that I dont have any problem with what might be there as it is generally tight along the edge....easily cropped out, fixed or the background eliminates it as it isnt the sky. I am happy with what I see and will check from time to time,and when I am going to shoot the Cleveland Air Show again, I will get anal with it so that it is nearly perfect!
I should add that at f16 to f22 is where I could really see it. If I let the aperture drop to say f8 there was less likelihood that I would ever see it.
Herb wrote:
I received my official Gel Stick today and went after my 1DxII sensor with it. There is a very marked improvement. Just a couple of observations...
1. If there is debris along the edge the gel stick which has rounded edges doesnt necessarily pick that up. You have to really go after it to get at it.
2. Because I cant see things up close with my glasses on, I take them off, but then I still cant really see where I am getting after it.
3. I tend to bump the edge of the gel stick into the edge of the area surrounding the sensor and believe that I put new debris on it.
4. After I got the stuff around the edge where it was virtually gone, I found that somehow a new piece got in the middle.
5. Got the middle piece out but found some new debris along the edge, very few but all the same its there.
My conclusion, you cant get 100% of it as it is like the "whack a mole" game, knock one off, another crops up. But you can get it good enough that I dont have any problem with what might be there as it is generally tight along the edge....easily cropped out, fixed or the background eliminates it as it isnt the sky. I am happy with what I see and will check from time to time,and when I am going to shoot the Cleveland Air Show again, I will get anal with it so that it is nearly perfect!
I should add that at f16 to f22 is where I could really see it. If I let the aperture drop to say f8 there was less likelihood that I would ever see it....Show more →
I hear 'ya Herb....sensor cleaning is frustrating....I've never tried the gel stick but using wet clean swabs last week on my 1DX was going from almost perfect to a bunch more stuff in the middle and on and on....finally you just have to accept something close to good. I'm usually close to wide open all the time so it doesn't bother my shooting but I worry about letting the sensor get too dirty and then having a hard time cleaning it when I want to sell the camera.
Herb wrote:
I received my official Gel Stick today and went after my 1DxII sensor with it. There is a very marked improvement. Just a couple of observations...
1. If there is debris along the edge the gel stick which has rounded edges doesnt necessarily pick that up. You have to really go after it to get at it.
2. Because I cant see things up close with my glasses on, I take them off, but then I still cant really see where I am getting after it.
3. I tend to bump the edge of the gel stick into the edge of the area surrounding the sensor and believe that I put new debris on it.
4. After I got the stuff around the edge where it was virtually gone, I found that somehow a new piece got in the middle.
5. Got the middle piece out but found some new debris along the edge, very few but all the same its there.
My conclusion, you cant get 100% of it as it is like the "whack a mole" game, knock one off, another crops up. But you can get it good enough that I dont have any problem with what might be there as it is generally tight along the edge....easily cropped out, fixed or the background eliminates it as it isnt the sky. I am happy with what I see and will check from time to time,and when I am going to shoot the Cleveland Air Show again, I will get anal with it so that it is nearly perfect!
I should add that at f16 to f22 is where I could really see it. If I let the aperture drop to say f8 there was less likelihood that I would ever see it....Show more →
Good to read that the gel stick is a good solution for you Herb. I too would be more comfortable with gently pressing a gel stick onto the sensor than using a swiping motion with either a brush or wet swab. I'm meeting with another 1DxII owner soon that is confident with wet cleaning his sensor. (And he is able to remove almost every spot on his sensor). Going to pay some good attention there.
therealthings wrote:
I'm just baffled that no one has anything to say about the gif i shared today.
Just as I said — it doesn’t take much to make the sensor filthy. A few hundred shots and that’s the result. Yikes. Can’t believe people claim there isn’t a problem.
Chimping wrote:
Just as I said — it doesn’t take much to make the sensor filthy. A few hundred shots and that’s the result. Yikes. Can’t believe people claim there isn’t a problem.
What surprised me with this sensor is the white dots that developed. Not sure if they are clusters of dead pixels or something else. I notified CPS so that they don't send it out to another that needs a loaner. Today i am receiving another loaner. Will perform the same test on it.
So next loaner on the testbench. Just one strange white dot on this one and still a nasty development of dust/debris/oil. (Not as bad as the previous loaner, but still) See the animated gif again after the first shot and after 3600 shutter actuations:
Animated gif before and after 3600 shutter actuations
FYI: No lenses changed. Just one lens (70-200 F4) and did not zoom in or out to let air move. Camera was on a tripod and did not move, so dirt coming from outside is ruled out.
And here is a screenshot for those that keep saying they don't see anything with normal shooting conditions. A shot taken @ f8, unedited. Now tell me that you don't see anything that would bother you:
I also did this test with my 5D Mark IV that does 7fps, and did not see any development of debris on the sensor after a few hundred actuations in Hi speed mode.
So it all comes down to this. When i have a 1Dx mark II and want to be satisfied with it i have to either:
- Only shoot @ F4
- Clean my sensor every 1000 shutter actuations (and do it carefully, because otherwise i am looking at a €1850 replacement sensor)
- Don't bother with those dust dots because my €6400 body is getting the job done
- Sell it, buy a 5D mark IV and be done with it
Do you really think taking a loaner 1DXII and holding the shutter button till the battery runs out is “normal shooting conditions”?
Then why did you not rack up 3600 actuations on your 5DIV instead of a few hundred for comparison?
horobosu wrote:
Do you really think taking a loaner 1DXII and holding the shutter button till the battery runs out is “normal shooting conditions”?
Then why did you not rack up 3600 actuations on your 5DIV instead of a few hundred for comparison?
Did you think i fired them away in 1 go? And yes, 3600 shots is nothing special. Go a weekend to a race track, airshow, football match, you name it. By the way, i could show you frame 1200 with enough dust buildup already. So please fanboy please contribute to the thread or go play somewhere else.
therealthings wrote:
So next loaner on the testbench. Just one strange white dot on this one and still a nasty development of dust/debris/oil. (Not as bad as the previous loaner, but still) See the animated gif again after the first shot and after 3600 shutter actuations:
Animated gif before and after 3600 shutter actuations
FYI: No lenses changed. Just one lens (70-200 F4) and did not zoom in or out to let air move. Camera was on a tripod and did not move, so dirt coming from outside is ruled out.
And here is a screenshot for those that keep saying they don't see anything with normal shooting conditions. A shot taken @ f8, unedited. Now tell me that you don't see anything that would bother you:
I also did this test with my 5D Mark IV that does 9fps, and did not see any development of debris on the sensor after a few hundred actuations in Hi speed mode.
So it all comes down to this. When i have a 1Dx mark II and want to be satisfied with it i have to either:
- Only shoot @ F4
- Clean my sensor every 1000 shutter actuations (and do it carefully, because otherwise i am looking at a €1850 replacement sensor)
- Don't bother with those dust dots because my €6400 body is getting the job done
- Sell it, buy a 5D mark IV and be done with it
