therealthings wrote:
So i asked, will they, after replacing the sensor, do the same tests as i did to make sure i won't be sending it in again, he replied; "No, they will just replace the sensor and ship it, no tests done". I find that way of working very strange. If i deliver a product to one of my clients, and he returns it because of a defect
That is strange...my biggest beef with people that repair things even IT people...test it before it leaves so you know that it is correct and another service call is not required. Would they be happy if they took their car in and it had the motor replaced but someone didn't take it for a test drive afterwards? Really poor.....even if they hook it to a tester which will only tell them that they got the wires hooked back up correctly and that it is "alive". UGH!
OK guys I'm trying to grasp the issue. All I have to work with is a 5DsR with about 16000 actuations, I clean with Butterfly only and only when I see dust appear, which is once every 3-4 months. When shoot a white subject at ISO100 and f/32 and I apply the Dehaze trick I get this: http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171008-SensorIssue/5DsR-Normal-1-Mark.jpg
Therefore the issue is not visible in 99.9% of my images.
I wonder: can I leave this as is or do I need to have it cleaned for the spots not to burn into the sensor? What do you think this is anyway, just dust or something sticky?
Just for the record this is after doing my very best with the Arctic Butterfly 3 rounds. Some spots seem to have moved around between attempts, most spots stay just where they are.
And to get back on topic: Is the issue with the 1Dx and 1Dx2 (regarding dust, not scratches) significantly worse than this?
I only go after the sensor when I can see something in the photos, otherwise I follow the motto, if it’s not broken don’t fix it. There are some that regularly clean their sensor, so you have different camps. What is the right answer? Your guess is as good as anyone else’s.
rabbitmountain wrote:
Therefore the issue is not visible in 99.9% of my images.
I wonder: can I leave this as is or do I need to have it cleaned for the spots not to burn into the sensor? What do you think this is anyway, just dust or something sticky?
Just for the record this is after doing my very best with the Arctic Butterfly 3 rounds. Some spots seem to have moved around between attempts, most spots stay just where they are.
And to get back on topic: Is the issue with the 1Dx and 1Dx2 (regarding dust, not scratches) significantly worse than this?
Thanks,
Ralph
Thanks for posting this photo and your findings. It is good to see that other cameras accumulate this much dust as well, not only 1DXs
In my opinion this is just dust. As I've heard, but never saw it myself, Arctic Butterfly would leave smears if it got on an oil spot. Also, Arctic Butterfly is known to spread/move the dust around which I think can be seen on your photo, especially if you used it 3 times before taking this shot. Any chance that you have a test shot before cleaning the sensor? I wonder if the dust was mostly accumulated in the corners before cleaning it with an Arctic Butterfly.
I found the Gel Stick: http://amzn.to/2y82559 to be most efficient, from all the solutions on the market, for dry cleaning dust that accumulated on a sensor. It is super easy to use and picks up 95% percent of dust on a very first pass without spreading the dust around
Hey Greg, yes the arctic butterfly really does seem to move the dust around doesnt it? Funny you should mention the dust being accumulated in the corners before the first try. In fact you are quite right. I could post a pre-cleaning shot if you like. And you're bang on on what you said about the AB smearing an oil spot. This happened after the first go.
Anyway none of the spots you see in my samples I notice in my usual photography. I shoot portraits from f/2.8 ~ f/8, sports up to f/2.8, events up to f/5.6 and only on the occasional landscape shot with lots of sky in them will I be confronted with dust spots.
The main reason for showing my sensor images is that it looks frightful while it's not the least problematic. And that I was wondering how the other sensors in this topic look like without applying the dehaze trick.
rabbitmountain wrote:
Hey Greg, yes the arctic butterfly really does seem to move the dust around doesnt it? Funny you should mention the dust being accumulated in the corners before the first try. In fact you are quite right. I could post a pre-cleaning shot if you like. And you're bang on on what you said about the AB smearing an oil spot. This happened after the first go.
Anyway none of the spots you see in my samples I notice in my usual photography. I shoot portraits from f/2.8 ~ f/8, sports up to f/2.8, events up to f/5.6 and only on the occasional landscape shot with lots of sky in them will I be confronted with dust spots.
The main reason for showing my sensor images is that it looks frightful while it's not the least problematic. And that I was wondering how the other sensors in this topic look like without applying the dehaze trick....Show more →
Your post somehow proofs that this "excessive" dust isn't just a 1DX/1DXII's issue and for most users it isn't a problem at all. Myself, I often shoot below f/8 and I barely see dust spots in my images. I see how shooting over f/16 and "excessively" processing images can be an issue though. The more often you mount/dismount your lenses, the more dust you will have. Also, the bigger the sensor, the more chances of collecting the dust...
As for the lines on the sensor mentioned by others, it would be great if we could get a sample from other cameras as well. Maybe it isn't just the 1DXII's problem? Who knows, maybe other manufacturers have similar issues? The best would be to ask the owners/employees of gear rental companies (LensRentals, BorrowLenses etc.) if they encountered similar issues with their cameras. People that clean sensors for them would have a better take on it, I would think.
As for the photo before the initial cleaning, I'm just wondering if the most amount of dust was in the upper left corner of the image?
kosin wrote:
Your post somehow proofs that this "excessive" dust isn't just a 1DX/1DXII's issue and for most users it isn't a problem at all. Myself, I often shoot below f/8 and I barely see dust spots in my images. I see how shooting over f/16 and "excessively" processing images can be an issue though. The more often you mount/dismount your lenses, the more dust you will have. Also, the bigger the sensor, the more chances of collecting the dust...
As for the lines on the sensor mentioned by others, it would be great if we could get a sample from other cameras as well. Maybe it isn't just the 1DXII's problem? Who knows, maybe other manufacturers have similar issues? The best would be to ask the owners/employees of gear rental companies (LensRentals, BorrowLenses etc.) if they encountered similar issues with their cameras. People that clean sensors for them would have a better take on it, I would think.
As for the photo before the initial cleaning, I'm just wondering if the most amount of dust was in the upper left corner of the image?...Show more →
I'm sorry, but this doesn't prove anything.
I shot thousands of frames on my 5DsR this summer in Switzerland, the UK, Germany, and Italy and I had four sensor spots by the end of it. I've since had the sensor cleaned by Canon Canada, and shot several hundred frames last week in Banff National Park here in Canada and have one dust spot as a result.
I have a 5D3 and I've never cleaned the sensor on it. Not once. I bought it in 2013 brand new. It has a total of eight spots that start showing at f/8.
The above example, in my opinion, is not a good illustration of what people can or should expect with a 5DsR sensor. In fact, I would argue that's exceptionally bad for a 5D sensor. Most people I've spoken with, both in person and on forums, don't have dust or oil problems on their 5D, 6D, or 7D cameras. If 1D owners are pressed, and you can get them to actually check their sensors, it's amazing at how bad many of these sensors look from dust and oil spots.
Furthermore, changing lenses has zero to do with the problem 1D users are experiencing with dust/oil/spots. You could leave a single lens on it for a shoot and have hundreds of spots by the end. It's the camera and something with its design that's the problem, not users changing their lenses in dusty environments.
The cameras are simply flawed. Some people can work around it and/or don't care; others, like myself, have noticed this problem and are annoyed by it. I've owned enough Canon models now to know that the 1D cameras are simply worse...far worse...than other Canon cameras.
rabbitmountain wrote:
OK guys I'm trying to grasp the issue. All I have to work with is a 5DsR with about 16000 actuations, I clean with Butterfly only and only when I see dust appear, which is once every 3-4 months. When shoot a white subject at ISO100 and f/32 and I apply the Dehaze trick I get this: http://www.yulaniss.nl/FM/171008-SensorIssue/5DsR-Normal-1-Mark.jpg
Therefore the issue is not visible in 99.9% of my images.
I wonder: can I leave this as is or do I need to have it cleaned for the spots not to burn into the sensor? What do you think this is anyway, just dust or something sticky?
Just for the record this is after doing my very best with the Arctic Butterfly 3 rounds. Some spots seem to have moved around between attempts, most spots stay just where they are.
And to get back on topic: Is the issue with the 1Dx and 1Dx2 (regarding dust, not scratches) significantly worse than this?
As I said in my other posting, I would argue that this looks exceptionally bad for a 5D series camera. I've had a 5D3 for years now that I've never bothered to clean the sensor on, and I've got a 5DsR that had four sensor spots showing after an entire summer's worth of work traveling around Europe. I had Canon Canada clean my 5DsR sensor because I noticed the spots showing at f/5.6, especially with a bit of Dehaze added to the sky portion of my shots. The 5D3 the spots begin to appear faintly at f/8.
I'll post a shot the 1DX (first gen) camera for comparison sake when I get home to show you the difference.
Chimping wrote:
I'm sorry, but this doesn't prove anything.
I shot thousands of frames on my 5DsR this summer in Switzerland, the UK, Germany, and Italy and I had four sensor spots by the end of it. I've since had the sensor cleaned by Canon Canada, and shot several hundred frames last week in Banff National Park here in Canada and have one dust spot as a result.
I have a 5D3 and I've never cleaned the sensor on it. Not once. I bought it in 2013 brand new. It has a total of eight spots that start showing at f/8.
The above example, in my opinion, is not a good illustration of what people can or should expect with a 5DsR sensor. In fact, I would argue that's exceptionally bad for a 5D sensor. Most people I've spoken with, both in person and on forums, don't have dust or oil problems on their 5D, 6D, or 7D cameras. If 1D owners are pressed, and you can get them to actually check their sensors, it's amazing at how bad many of these sensors look from dust and oil spots.
Furthermore, changing lenses has zero to do with the problem 1D users are experiencing with dust/oil/spots. You could leave a single lens on it for a shoot and have hundreds of spots by the end. It's the camera and something with its design that's the problem, not users changing their lenses in dusty environments.
The cameras are simply flawed. Some people can work around it and/or don't care; others, like myself, have noticed this problem and are annoyed by it. I've owned enough Canon models now to know that the 1D cameras are simply worse...far worse...than other Canon cameras. ...Show more →
Unfortunately, I'm a bad example for this test as my current setup requires me to dismount lens/camera every time I want to shoot (1DXII + 600mm + extenders). Believe me, I've seen filthy sensors on other Canon cameras before, not only on 1DX/1DXII.
I wonder if a person that never/barely changes the lenses on 1DXII and shoots one frame at a time (not multiple frames per second) also finds it sensor dirty?
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but I would love to see more examples before calling it a problem...
How do you distinguish oil spots from dust spots by looking at the photo?
Herb wrote:
I only go after the sensor when I can see something in the photos, otherwise I follow the motto, if it’s not broken don’t fix it. There are some that regularly clean their sensor, so you have different camps. What is the right answer? Your guess is as good as anyone else’s.
There's something to be said for this philosophy, for sure. If it's a few spots at smallish apertures, I agree...it's not worth the hassle or risk. If it's a lot of spots showing at commonly used apertures -- say f/5.6-f/10 -- then it's another story completely, in my opinion.
1D cameras are an anomaly, however. The sheer amount of debris that gets onto the sensor can become overwhelming in a short period of time. I do object to that.
kosin wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm a bad example for this test as my current setup requires me to dismount lens/camera every time I want to shoot (1DXII + 600mm + extenders). Believe me, I've seen filthy sensors on other Canon cameras before, not only on 1DX/1DXII.
I wonder if a person that never/barely changes the lenses on 1DXII and shoots one frame at a time (not multiple frames per second) also finds it sensor dirty?
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but I would love to see more examples before calling it a problem...
How do you distinguish oil spots from dust spots by looking at the photo?...Show more →
I too would love to see more people posting what their sensors look like on their 1DX2s.
I typically won't change lenses in the field and have at least two cameras with me. I still notice spots more readily on the 1Ds. That's just my experience, however.
Typically oil spots are not completely dark or well defined like a piece of dust would be on the sensor. You can also distinguish oil from dust because the oil spots will have a halo effect going on.
kosin wrote:
Thanks for posting this photo and your findings. It is good to see that other cameras accumulate this much dust as well, not only 1DXs
In my opinion this is just dust. As I've heard, but never saw it myself, Arctic Butterfly would leave smears if it got on an oil spot. Also, Arctic Butterfly is known to spread/move the dust around which I think can be seen on your photo, especially if you used it 3 times before taking this shot. Any chance that you have a test shot before cleaning the sensor? I wonder if the dust was mostly accumulated in the corners before cleaning it with an Arctic Butterfly.
I found the Gel Stick: http://amzn.to/2y82559 to be most efficient, from all the solutions on the market, for dry cleaning dust that accumulated on a sensor. It is super easy to use and picks up 95% percent of dust on a very first pass without spreading the dust around ...Show more →
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rabbitmountain wrote:
Hey Greg, yes the arctic butterfly really does seem to move the dust around doesnt it? Funny you should mention the dust being accumulated in the corners before the first try. In fact you are quite right. I could post a pre-cleaning shot if you like. And you're bang on on what you said about the AB smearing an oil spot. This happened after the first go.
Anyway none of the spots you see in my samples I notice in my usual photography. I shoot portraits from f/2.8 ~ f/8, sports up to f/2.8, events up to f/5.6 and only on the occasional landscape shot with lots of sky in them will I be confronted with dust spots.
The main reason for showing my sensor images is that it looks frightful while it's not the least problematic. And that I was wondering how the other sensors in this topic look like without applying the dehaze trick....Show more →
Just yesterday I decided to clean my 1DX sensor. Arctic Butterfly basically just made things worse and some of the stuff was oil because it streaked it. I went to a Visible Dust Swab with V-Dust Plus and that got everything looking really good but the upper left corner still had a splatter of tiny spots...must have not got the swab into that corner. Tried to get that corner clean and just by removing the lens and taking shots the middle of the sensor started getting dirty again. Tried one of my other VD solutions and it streaked like crazy....too much fluid. Finally I did another V-dust solution and managed to get the sensor looking decent (but not perfect)....gave up after that as it was much improved and I didn't want to use any more swabs.
arbitrage wrote:
Finally I did another V-dust solution and managed to get the sensor looking decent (but not perfect)....gave up after that as it was much improved and I didn't want to use any more swabs.
I use the Visible Dust kit as well and thats pretty much my experience. It gets almost all the crap but it's not perfect. I used to use eclipse and pecpads for my earlier 1D bodies. I still don't see a large difference in 1D bodies for collecting dust/debris. All of them get dirty pretty quickly. Granted I'm relatively careless with them and sometimes swap lenses in the field while forgetting to shut the camera off.
WarrenL wrote:
I have a severe oil issue on one of my 1dx2 bodies. This is shot at F11. I was unable to use most of the images as the top left corner is so bad... I am uploading an image that is of no use to me, as it was the first in a series of an aircraft fly by.
Ok so, while my sensor is being replaced by canon, i received a brand new loaner from CPS. Did a test run with it. And i have to say, it scares me how the sensor fills up with debris and strange things that happen with it.
First, development of a strange white dot. Starts of as a dust spot, then becomes white (like if it kills the pixels on that spot). Check this animation:
Then the dust. The first image was close to spotless. And after a burst of 50 images it already filled up with dust particles. Keep in mind that this is a brand new unit, only put the lens on (body upside down in a dust free environment):
Again, all test shots are done @F32 which reveals every little thing and i know it is way beyond the diffraction limit and does not represent a normal shooting situation. It is only performed to show what using this camera does with your sensor and reveal the glue that is used in the sensor stack as others have stated. If you know where to look in the heavily processed images, you will see those streaks in mildly edited images as well stopped down @F16. I find that unacceptable for such a camera. Sent these images to my CPS rep. As well.
Gust wrote:
it's seems a really ridiculous story.
or they cleaned it before sending it to you, or the sensor is shit.
Hi Guus, when inspecting the outside i can't spot any scratches, no dust or debris on the outside. That makes me think this is actually an unused and new body. The first image i took with it @F22 did show a few tiny dust spots looking very clean. But after a burst the spots came more and more with every frame. Some look solid black and some have a black halo around them looking like some kind of liquid. The debris definitely has to come from the inside of the body and not from the outside like some say. More and more i'm starting to believe there is a serious flaw in this camera.
