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Archive 2017 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

GMPhotography
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

genji wrote:
+1

I won’t be buying any more Fotodipox products at all.

As photographers that want protection of our images getting ripped off and it happens everyday especially US citizens that have very powerful copyright laws, we simply should not condon this.

Now I know full well especially in China our copyrights are worthless. Not sure around the globe but this should just not be a country issue but a global one. This is not just about photography but many things like software and anything created.

I’m not here to tell you folks what to do but working Pros are very sensitive to this.

Reasons why I rarely post client images , flicker and all that . Is I have no control of what gets stolen.

Just be careful out there and you know those contests you entry. Read the fine print they own the copyright when you submit it. That means a world class image you shot is no longer yours to sell to anyone. It’s a big problem overall

Oct 07, 2017 at 11:30 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

genji wrote:
+1

I won’t be buying any more Fotodipox products at all.

They should pull out this product and issue an apology to Fotodiox customers.

Oct 07, 2017 at 11:43 AM

MikeEvangelist
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

This doesn't surprise me a bit. As long as there are no significant consequences for these companies who rip-off/clone/copy other people's ideas/implementations, there's no reason for them to stop. It's very lucrative and much easier than actually inventing/designing something yourself.

In my previous life I ran a California technology design/manufacturing company, and I can tell you it's the freakin' wild west over there. The notion of ideas being exclusive or protected is pretty much unknown (although it's given lip service at high levels, the reality is that the push for economic growth trumps all those nice words.)

Amazon is virtually flooded with crappy knockoffs of nearly any tech gadget you can imagine. Sometimes Amazon can't even sort out which ones are real and which are fakes. We have to stop buying this stuff, or it will never end. But some people can't resist the lure of a knock-off (i.e. a fake Really Right Stuff ballhead for $120, when the real ones are $350.)

Oct 07, 2017 at 11:59 AM

rji2goleez
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

I agree with all that's been said . . . it certainly doesn't look good. And at the same time, I'd like to first hear from Fotodiox people and hear what they have to say. Innocent till proven (admitted) guilty. It doesn't look good but I'll make my judgement based on what I hear (or don't hear).

Oct 07, 2017 at 03:03 PM

sychan
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

rji2goleez wrote:
I'd like to first hear from Fotodiox people and hear what they have to say. Innocent till proven (admitted) guilty.

So, basically they are innocent unless they confess? Despite all the evidence? That isn't actually what "proof" means, is it?

Oct 07, 2017 at 04:17 PM

rji2goleez
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

sychan wrote:
So, basically they are innocent unless they confess? Despite all the evidence? That isn't actually what "proof" means, is it?

No, not at all . . . I would just like to hear what they have to say. Even then, this does not look good. I've already thrown myself into the 'Support Techart' group. The evidence looks more than bad . . .

Oct 07, 2017 at 04:47 PM

genji
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

rji2goleez wrote:
No, not at all . . . I would just like to hear what they have to say. Even then, this does not look good. I've already thrown myself into the 'Support Techart' group. The evidence looks more than bad . . .

I'd argue that the video Fred linked to, showing that the Pronto firmware can be updated with Techart's app, provides irrefutable proof that the Pronto is an unlicensed copy of the Techart PRO. The screen capture below, taken from the Amazon.com product page for the Pronto, clearly shows what Fotodiox have to say. Notice that they:

* acknowledge that there are "some questions out there concerning a similar product offered by Techart";
* admit "there is no significant operational difference between the two adapters in real-world tests";
* studiously avoid answering the straightforward question ("Is this a rebranded Techart adapter?"); and
* shamelessly tout the "advantages" of the Pronto over the Techart PRO.

Oct 08, 2017 at 12:02 AM

Faraday
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

It says something that at least TAP's on this forum and Fotodiox is absent. I suppose it's just half decent marketing vs totally absent marketing, but if this were my product (the Pronto) I would be all over the forums creating SOME level of transparency, not on Amazon basically saying the products are identical.

I shoot mainly native but was thinking of picking up one of these (husband shoots Leica)....now it will be the TAP.

Oct 08, 2017 at 11:01 PM

Arka
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

rji2goleez wrote:
No, not at all . . . I would just like to hear what they have to say. Even then, this does not look good. I've already thrown myself into the 'Support Techart' group. The evidence looks more than bad . . .

It's not really a question of "guilt," more of "infringement liability." Not being intimately familiar with Chinese IP laws (but using U.S. laws as a rough analog, and over-simplifying things tremendously):
(1) Copyright is implicated if the TechArt firmware was copied. It's an easy thing to test, and it looks like it was here.
(2) It's actually not unlawful for Fotodiox to copy the design of the adapter unless (a) the technical particulars were trade secrets that Fotodiox unlawfully obtained, or (b) TechArt has a valid, enforceable patent in the jurisdiction(s) where Fotofiox is making, selling, using, or importing/exporting the Pronto, and they can prove that the patent (not the TechArt Pro design) covers the Pronto. TechArt says it has patents, so at least (b) is likely to be a cause of action, depending on the quality and priority date of the patents, and where they were obtained. I didn't see any U.S. Patents in a quick search, but I probably don't know the name of the actual corporate entity to which such patents might be assigned. As for enforcement of patents in China, I know that's a very difficult and unpredictable business for non-Chinese litigants, but might be more efficient for disputes between China-based companies.

From first blush, it does seem pretty clear that the Pronto is a TechArt clone, so I do hope that TechArt can take some recourse to stop it. I certainly won't be buying one. I'm very happy with the TechArt Pro adapter I have, and TechArt if you're reading this, I would be happy to (i) buy the next iteration of the product as you improve it, and (ii) try and assist you with IP concerns you might have in the United States.

Oct 09, 2017 at 02:41 AM

Maknof
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

In chinese jungle is hard to tell if fotodiox is a copy bought from a 3rd party company , or directly from the company that create the adapter.
Fotodiox is a company that ordered a product ,and merchandise it around the world, like the commlite brothers.
We don't know if there's a copyright issue now, could be simply the company wont tell us :
"This product is developed totally in PRC,it's the same of others, we only made our logo and we don't bought the app or firmware updates.

Oct 09, 2017 at 04:02 AM

genji
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

Maknof wrote:
In chinese jungle is hard to tell if fotodiox is a copy bought from a 3rd party company , or directly from the company that create the adapter.
Fotodiox is a company that ordered a product ,and merchandise it around the world, like the commlite brothers.
We don't know if there's a copyright issue now, could be simply the company wont tell us :
"This product is developed totally in PRC,it's the same of others, we only made our logo and we don't bought the app or firmware updates.

To the contrary, it’s inconceivable that Fotodiox, a company which must have had an enormous amount of experience in dealing with Chinese companies, didn’t know exactly what they were buying.

Oct 09, 2017 at 04:13 AM

azenis
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

I think it has more to do with the moral rather than legal.

Even if Techart doesn't come out to pursue legal actions, as a consumer who values innovation and original thinking, there are too many evidence suggesting this is in fact an un-authorized clone.

Until it has been clear of infringement, I can't, in a good conscious, support Fotodiox's products.

It's like a restaurant "suspected" of having health issues. It's under investigation although many many people (evidence) have felt sick after eating at the premise. Sure it hasn't been "proven"... but you can bet that I won't be near that restaurant until things have cleared up.

Oct 09, 2017 at 03:24 PM

sirimiri
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

Are all the facts known such that the prevailing conclusions drawn in this forum cannot be challenged?

Oct 09, 2017 at 09:36 PM

moffatross
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · FotodioX PRONTO: Leica M-Mount to Sony E-Mount with AF!

azenis wrote:
I think it has more to do with the moral rather than legal.
The gadgetry we use exists in a relatively niche marketplace and I can't help thinking Fotodiox have shot themselves in the foot (I won't be buying any other adapter from the company). I closed my Amazon account about 7 years back because they stank then and their scent hasn't improved, and I don't and won't use Uber because they stink too. Aside from litigation, consumer conscience affecting market share is about the only thing business is concerned about.

Oct 12, 2017 at 03:33 PM

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