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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

  
 
RogerZoul
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p.9 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Full Spec Sheet ... might be a couple pleasant surprises (# of assignable buttons, spot meter area @ 3.2%, EC range, etc.) and a few other notes (i.e. 6.5 fps with IS turned off on 100-400 II) of interest for a gander.

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/6d-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-specifications-chart.pdf?cm_mmc=nw-_-eos-6d-mark-ii-_-specifications-_-download


Just in case someone wants a working link to this:

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/6d-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-specifications-chart.pdf?

This chart has important specs on the 6D2 that many will want to know about.

Edited on Jun 30, 2017 at 04:45 AM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:34 AM
MayaTlab
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p.9 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


PetKal wrote:
I am with Rusty in regard to the method of AF point selection/movement: the Canon camera joysticks I've found awkward and annoying, particularly if the AF points are not red-lit. Therefore, I've been using the old two rotary dial method to move the AF point around. It's faster and less erratic. However, there is no free lunch there either. Since I shoot mostly in M exposure mode, sometimes I inadvertently change exposure when trying to move the AF point fast and shoot fast. I do not have a good countermeasure for that problem, although having well lit AF points would
...Show more

Using the wheels can be a decent alternative in slower situations indeed. But when you want to change the AF point in the middle of tracking a subject, it's inadequate. As perfectible as they may be Canon's joysticks are better in that regard. But I agree that Canon should strive to improve their haptic feedback and operational qualities.
And when you spend the money to put in a 45 points AF system and 6,5 fps, it's just stupid to not give a camera a coherent control scheme to manage that.



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:39 AM
bushwacker
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p.9 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Canon's 6d2 sample images

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6dmk2/



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:43 AM
RogerZoul
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p.9 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


MayaTlab wrote:
Using the wheels can be a decent alternative in slower situations indeed. But when you want to change the AF point in the middle of tracking a subject, it's inadequate. As perfectible as they may be Canon's joysticks are better in that regard. But I agree that Canon should strive to improve their haptic feedback and operational qualities.
And when you spend the money to put in a 45 points AF system and 6,5 fps, it's just stupid to not give a camera a coherent control scheme to manage that.


While I agree with you in principle, I must say that if my objective was to get a buyer to pay more for better features, assuming I have a line of similar products to sell to a range of buyers based on price, then it makes perfect sense to charge more for better control schemes and to charge less for not-so-good control schemes. This is the world we live in. If you put the good stuff in the lower-level models, then you have no justification to charge more for the high-level models. Not everyone is willing and/or able to afford the top-end models.



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:52 AM
RogerZoul
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p.9 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


They put single-point spot AF in the 6D2! While there are no expansion modes, this is something you don't get on something like an 80D.

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/6d-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-specifications-chart.pdf?



Jun 30, 2017 at 04:55 AM
MayaTlab
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p.9 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RogerZoul wrote:
While I agree with you in principle, I must say that if my objective was to get a buyer to pay more for better features, assuming I have a line of similar products to sell to a range of buyers based on price, then it makes perfect sense to charge more for better control schemes and to charge less for not-so-good control schemes. This is the world we live in. If you put the good stuff in the lower-level models, then you have no justification to charge more for the high-level models. Not everyone is willing and/or able to afford
...Show more

I disagree because it makes a product's design internally incoherent to the point of not knowing what it's meant to be for. What does the 6DII stands for ? And no, "entry-level FF", or "amateur FF" isn't a proper answer to that question, because it isn't centred on the end goal and the user perspective.

For every single application I can think of, this camera has a more or less significant caveat that diminishes its potential, and very often that caveat doesn't come from real, tangible differences, but from pure arbitrary decisions. Let's take video for example. All right, it hasn't got 4K. Let's pass on it. Personally I'm a little tired of the people moaning about 4K and never asking for better DR, codecs, workflow, tools, etc., but never mind. Well, it's got DPAF, so it might be a good one man operation video camera ? Well, if that's the case, then why hasn't it got exposure aids ? That's design incoherence at its best. You're spending money to build into your shiny new camera DPAF, but then you seriously reduce its value to the end user by limiting its application potential ? That's just stupid. Another example : the 6DII has got a worse 1080p codec than the original 6D. That's not a question of reducing costs. It's just about arbitrary selection of features, even if in the end it means that the 6DII is a poor video camera, full stop.

This camera was designed by a committee looking at excel spreadsheets, powerpoint slides and a specification list, trying to see what they could squeeze in relative to the D750 and 5DIV, instead of by a competent design team asking themselves "let's make a great camera for x application" and going full beans to design a coherent camera to meet that application.

So, again, I ask the question : what does the 6DII stands for, as a product ? I've seen a few of the videos online, including some interviews of Canon employees trying to explain who this camera is for. None of them gave a similar answer, which is quite clearly a demonstration that they're struggling to know what it's meant for.

Thankfully for Canon all camera manufacturers are incompetent at designing cameras, with a few exceptions in niche markets, so relatively speaking the 6DII remains a pretty well designed camera.

An example, just for fun's sake, of sheer incompetence at work : on the D7500, Nikon simply forgot to put in DOF preview with the OVF. Yep, you read it right : you can't have DOF preview with the OVF, full stop. For... reasons ?

Edited on Jun 30, 2017 at 05:57 AM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2017 at 05:49 AM
MayaTlab
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p.9 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RogerZoul wrote:
They put single-point spot AF in the 6D2! While there are no expansion modes, this is something you don't get on something like an 80D.

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/6d-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-specifications-chart.pdf?


There are other somewhat positive changes as well. For example, even though button customisation isn't yet known, we know that you can assign exposure compensation in shutter+aperture priority mode to the AF-on and * buttons, in addition to the SET button :

?t=49s



Jun 30, 2017 at 05:55 AM
melcat
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p.9 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


It may be the "lightest ever full frame 35mm digital SLR", as the promotionak video claims, but back in the film days no-one would have considered 765g light.

They might be able to get the weight down more again by removing video and live view, if it allows them to remove a heat sink. But the kind of landscape photographer shown in the video has been convinced they need live view, so we'll never see it.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:02 AM
PetKal
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p.9 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RogerZoul wrote:
They put single-point spot AF in the 6D2! While there are no expansion modes, this is something you don't get on something like an 80D.

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/6d-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-specifications-chart.pdf?


That in itself is an odd feature choice: I am assuming that, generally speaking, select AF point expansion is a more useful feature, although higher precision AF is sometimes helpful too.

For those photographers who do AF tracking of fast moving subjects, my experience suggests that cameras with no select AF point expansion do not track well. That in itself makes 6DII less than relevant for me.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:10 AM
Liquidstone
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p.9 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


PetKal wrote:
For those photographers who do AF tracking of fast moving subjects, my experience suggests that cameras with no select AF point expansion do not track well. That in itself makes 6DII less than relevant for me.


Pare, all you need is a T6 to get super shots... a 6DII will be an overkill.




Jun 30, 2017 at 06:29 AM
RogerZoul
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p.9 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


PetKal wrote:
That in itself is an odd feature choice: I am assuming that, generally speaking, select AF point expansion is a more useful feature, although higher precision AF is sometimes helpful too.

For those photographers who do AF tracking of fast moving subjects, my experience suggests that cameras with no select AF point expansion do not track well. That in itself makes 6DII less than relevant for me.


When you are selling a range of products, not every product is going to be right for every user. That is the reason for having a range of models at different price points. It is the buyer's business to pick the product that best suits her/her needs, as I'm sure you have done.

As for the choice of what to put in the 6d2, I think it tells us what the committee was thinking when they picked this over expansion modes. The 6D was really not for tracking fast-moving subjects, and while the 6D2 is faster and more able, it is still not aimed at those interested in tracking fast-moving objects. I find spot most useful when I'm trying to get perched birds that are hiding in or moving about in the thicks. And this is also when I would want more low-light ability too. So, there is a sort of logic here. I still may not pick the 6d2 for my FF needs, though, because I do want those expansion modes. But I need to know precisely what's in the 6D2 so I can make the right choice.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:32 AM
RogerZoul
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p.9 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


MayaTlab wrote:
There are other somewhat positive changes as well. For example, even though button customisation isn't yet known, we know that you can assign exposure compensation in shutter+aperture priority mode to the AF-on and * buttons, in addition to the SET button :

?t=49s


That is a useful feature. Does the 7D2 or the 5D4 have this custom option? I don't like using the wheel to adjust EC because my wheel jumps on my 7D2, and hence I can't trust it for precise control of EC.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:35 AM
PetKal
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p.9 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Liquidstone wrote:
Pare, all you need is a T6 to get super shots... a 6DII will be an overkill.



He he, Pare, I guess it would be.
However, one way to look at all this is through the camera COST EFFECTIVENESS.
I have found dRebel to work very well for the money. Granted, having to shoot BIF with it is a low yield affair, however, I can accept that deficiency because I paid relatively little for the camera. As long as I get what I paid for, I should be accepting of such camera.

Now, when it comes to a $2,000 camera, my expectations on its performance are commensurate to the price, i.e., much higher.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:40 AM
RogerZoul
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p.9 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



MayaTlab wrote:
I disagree because it makes a product's design internally incoherent to the point of not knowing what it's meant to be for. What does the 6DII stands for ? And no, "entry-level FF", or "amateur FF" isn't a proper answer to that question, because it isn't centred on the end goal and the user perspective.


If you ask me, based on what I know of the 6D line, it is a camera for the more causal user who isn't in the field every day doing hard core photography, of any type. As such, the buyer isn't willing to pay top dollar. Thus, while the ability is there to allow adjustments to be made, they aren't setup in a way that works optimally because doing so forces costly bits and pieces to be added in for which the buyer doesn't want to pay. Less causal and more "professional" type users demand these features because they spend so much more time in the field. These folks require the best that can be had and are willing to pay for it. That's user perspective and of course the end goal is to do photography. You may wish to ignore this because you seem to think that perfection at any and every level should be the goal, but you are not on the committee responsible for making product differentiation to optimize (i.e., maximize) sales of said products.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:51 AM
Liquidstone
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p.9 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


PetKal wrote:
He he, Pare, I guess it would be.
However, one way to look at all this is through the camera COST EFFECTIVENESS.
I have found dRebel to work very well for the money. Granted, having to shoot BIF with it is a low yield affair, however, I can accept that deficiency because I paid relatively little for the camera. As long as I get what I paid for, I should be accepting of such camera.

Now, when it comes to a $2,000 camera, my expectations on its performance are commensurate to the price, i.e., much higher.


I hear you, pare. I see that the 6D II is an underwhelming upgrade to some, but a good enough step forward to others.

For me, I'm happily shooting along with a 7DII, and occasionally a 5DIII if I need something wider. My GAS for camera bodies took a long vacation a couple of years back.... my current bodies are more than good enough for what I shoot.

About the only new gear now that might separate me from my hard-earned pesos is a new big white DO.



Jun 30, 2017 at 06:56 AM
MayaTlab
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p.9 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RogerZoul wrote:
Thus, while the ability is there to allow adjustments to be made, they aren't setup in a way that works optimally because doing so forces costly bits and pieces to be added in for which the buyer doesn't want to pay.


That argument doesn't hold when, for example, you consider the 80D or 6D/6DII's front function button placement : it's poorly placed for various reasons (chief one of which is that you can't operate it with your right hand, and that entails a lot of problems), Canon completely knows this (otherwise they wouldn't have fixed it on the 5DIII/5DIV), and Canon gains zero cent by poorly locating it (it still requires a flex and the same overall mechanism).

The only reason it's there isn't manufacturing costs, it's artificial product segmentation.

In fact very often it isn't just about product segmentation, but sheer idiocy. The Canon M5, the so-called "expert" mirrorless camera from Canon, has a rubbish auto ISO implementation, in fact even worse than on some Powershots, and there is strictly nothing higher up to protect. There is zero rational behind this. The committee here didn't do this to increase sales. They just had way too many mushrooms.

Edited on Jun 30, 2017 at 07:06 AM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2017 at 07:02 AM
MayaTlab
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p.9 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RogerZoul wrote:
That is a useful feature. Does the 7D2 or the 5D4 have this custom option? I don't like using the wheel to adjust EC because my wheel jumps on my 7D2, and hence I can't trust it for precise control of EC.


I'm not sure but I believe that it's only for shutter+aperture priority mode, which is my terminology for the often ill-termed "manual mode with auto ISO". The 7DII's lever and 5DIV's button near the joystick can be assigned to that function, but not the AF-on or * buttons - that's new on the 6DII.

There are other interesting new features, such as (finally !) the apparition of aspect ratio lines in the OVF. This was a logical step to take when transmissive LCDs appeared in cameras but apparently it took camera manufacturers more than a decade to do it. Better late than never.



Jun 30, 2017 at 07:05 AM
scrappydog
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p.9 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


15Bit wrote:
With respect to 4K, who here actually shoots, processes and exports 4K video from a DSLR?


Videographers. Still shooters who also shoot video. Wedding photographers. Frankly, a lot of people.

If you don't think 4K is important, will you before 5 years from now? That's when the next 6D body will be coming out. My recent trip to a large consumer electronics store (Best Buy) suggests to me that 4K is the standard now.



Jun 30, 2017 at 07:15 AM
RustyBug
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p.9 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


PetKal wrote:
Therefore, I've been using the old two rotary dial method to move the AF point around. It's faster and less erratic.


Yup, that's the one.

To be fair, I'm sure that those who have been using the joystick for years will find it to be fast enough, and accurate enough. Likely just a learning curve issue in each direction. but I do find the wheel approach to be very "deliberate" and accurate (per click of the wheel) compared to the joystick (more free-form) ... where I seem to either over/under shoot the mark I was trying to hit.



Jun 30, 2017 at 07:26 AM
lighthound
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p.9 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


bushwacker wrote:
Canon's 6d2 sample images

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6dmk2/


I'm liking what I'm seeing in some of those images.
Anyone know if there are any RAW file samples out there yet? I've been looking but haven't found any yet.
I'm interested in seeing some high ISO RAW files. Preferably wildlife of the furry kind but anything would be nice to checkout.



Jun 30, 2017 at 08:47 AM
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