p.53 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Being a fan of Canon glass, I can say I hope the 6DII sells well because I want a healthy Canon to keep producing amazing lenses in the long term. More money for R&D = better lenses for us.
But I'm not so sure how long Canon can keep getting away with putting out the snoozer bodies. With the internet and social media it's easier than ever for consumers to research and compare the available tech in the market (as we see here with the 6DII). IMO, the 5DII and 1DX were the last two impressive bodies released from Canon. Since then, we have not seen much other than "do-overs" with a few bells and whistles added in. Meanwhile, the competition is catching up in all areas and even surpassing Canon in sensor tech.
For those who live their lives on this forum defending Canon cameras 24-7:
1. Don't take it so personal, it's just a camera. It's not your husband or wife these people are critiquing here.
2. I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that all of the latest snoozer bodies are "good cameras" and will take great photos (6DII included). Of course they are good cameras, but so is the original 5D and it can still take great photos as well. That's not what this is all about though, it's about comparing against the available tech, and when consumers do this the the argument is that Canon is falling behind. I've stated I'm not sure where Canon has left to go in the sensor dept, I wish they would call Sony.
Regarding the 6DII - I have no idea why anyone would buy a new 6DII over a $1500 5DIII right now, other than wanting a flip screen or just wanting the new car smell. I personally couldn't live with a 1/4000th max shutter speed, not to mention all the other benefits of the 5DIII . And if I was not invested in Canon lenses, I would elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see if this starts affecting the bottom line.
The price on this lemon will fall faster than a shooting star plummeting from the heavens ... watch....Show more →
The Nikon D5 has the exact same low-ISO DR as the 6D2....should that be $399 also? It certainly shouldn't be priced $500 higher than the 1DX2 that blows its DR out of the water. OR maybe low-ISO DR isn't that important of a metric to be basing pricing decisions on in the first place.........
p.53 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
artsupreme wrote:
Being a fan of Canon glass, I can say I hope the 6DII sells well because I want a healthy Canon to keep producing amazing lenses in the long term. More money for R&D = better lenses for us.
But I'm not so sure how long Canon can keep getting away with putting out the snoozer bodies. With the internet and social media it's easier than ever for consumers to research and compare the available tech in the market (as we see here with the 6DII). IMO, the 5DII and 1DX were the last two impressive bodies released from Canon. Since then, we have not seen much other than "do-overs" with a few bells and whistles added in. Meanwhile, the competition is catching up in all areas and even surpassing Canon in sensor tech.
For those who live their lives on this forum defending Canon cameras 24-7:
1. Don't take it so personal, it's just a camera. It's not your husband or wife these people are critiquing here.
2. I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that all of the latest snoozer bodies are "good cameras" and will take great photos (6DII included). Of course they are good cameras, but so is the original 5D and it can still take great photos as well. That's not what this is all about though, it's about comparing against the available tech, and when consumers do this the the argument is that Canon is falling behind. I've stated I'm not sure where Canon has left to go in the sensor dept, I wish they would call Sony.
Regarding the 6DII - I have no idea why anyone would buy a new 6DII over a $1500 5DIII right now, other than wanting a flip screen or just wanting the new car smell. I personally couldn't live with a 1/4000th max shutter speed, not to mention all the other benefits of the 5DIII . And if I was not invested in Canon lenses, I would elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see if this starts affecting the bottom line. ...Show more →
The 6D2 has much nicer noise and shadows without banding compared to the 5D3. There are a bunch of nice things on the 5D3 but the 6D and 6D2 sensor are improvements on the 5D3. I certainly wouldn't jump on a 5D3 without weighing the pros and cons. The 6D2 has lots of other features that have been added to Canon's lineup since the 5D3. Even the AF system has more f/8 points in the 6D2 than the 5D3 and it may actually be better than the 5D3's system overall with newer processors.
p.53 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
The Nikon D5 has the exact same low-ISO DR as the 6D2....should that be $399 also? It certainly shouldn't be priced $500 higher than the 1DX2 that blows its DR out of the water. OR maybe low-ISO DR isn't that important of a metric to be basing pricing decisions on in the first place.........
Geoff, you know that the user you are replying to is unlikely to ever purchase a Canon camera, so anything you say to him is only going to encourage pointless arguing. I would say that his post is quite troll-ish and probably not worthy of a response, so protect your sterling reputation here and don't engage him. He doesn't have much of a reputation to worry about protecting.
p.53 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
The Nikon D5 has the exact same low-ISO DR as the 6D2....should that be $399 also? It certainly shouldn't be priced $500 higher than the 1DX2 that blows its DR out of the water.
The Nikon D5 is, specifically, an action camera ... which presupposes 2 things: 1) a fast shutter-speed, which mandates 2) higher ISOs.
Therefore, the Nikon D5 was designed to be the best High ISO camera on the market.
(Regarding 'blowing out of the water,' between the D5 and the 1Dx II, you might want to view SenScore's Placement of the D5 ***IN THE NUMBER ONE POSITION*** with a 1438 DR rating.
If you go to this website, and if you're looking for the 1DxII's placement ... you'll need to scroll-down 10 spots lower than the D5 (beneath 5 other Nikons and 4 Sonys) ... and there you will find the 1DX II
24 places below the D5 is the original 6D
arbitrage wrote:
OR maybe low-ISO DR isn't that important of a metric to be basing pricing decisions on in the first place.........
Well, if you are looking for Base ISO performance, then your solution would be another Nikon product ... the D810 ... which similarly bests any Canon camera ever made (or any DSLR, for that matter). And it's 3 years old.
p.53 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
We are in an odd situation where if someone asks me for a canon recommendation to shoot landscapes I will be talking about a year and a half old crop sensored camera that isnt even top tier in canons crop lineup.
To my knowledge this is the first time canon have intentionally stepped back in image quality on their sensors and given us a compromised sensor design.
At any other time they have given us the best they can make at that time.
Now they have chosen to compromise IQ , either to sell more higher priced cameras or to reduce production costs or whatever.
That fact is the biggest surprise here. We now know canon can do better.
Jul 20, 2017 at 03:37 PM
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p.53 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
That fact is the biggest surprise here. We now know canon can do better.
Canon didn't want to do it better so there's left the only way for Canon to do it cheaper. And after Nikon/Sony line refreshing Canon simply will have to.
p.53 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
FFaccount wrote:
What a st… statement. First the 6D II is not an entry level FF it’s a mid-level FF. Entry level FF are around 1000$ now, 2000$ is a more advanced market. Also, the statement that shooters of a 2000$ Body will mostly shoot JPG is just insane. And why is the 6D II no competition for Sony? An A7 II/ III will appeal to the same market the same goes with the Nikon D750.
Why should a customer choose the 6D II over a D750/D760 or A7 II/III? Just because Canon can sell the 6D II to some hardcore Canon users and still make profit it’s a great camera now? There is no Reason to defend a product that just doesn’t perform. In the end Sony and Nikon users won’t be affected by the performance of the 6D II but you Canon users will.
If Canon had increased the sensor performance, everyone would have applauded. But Canon didn’t and now you can say “I don’t care” and that’s ok. But you can’t applaud to stagnation. Why would you? ...Show more →
Do you know what you are talking about? I doen´t. What brand is YOUR 1000 $ entry level FF body? I never heard about one offered by any company.
I never heard anything about a D760 except it is a rumored body. The First Sony body that might meanwhile be able to compete (e. g.: in AF speed what is important for me) against any Canon FF body is (the new) alpha 9 starting at 5.300 €. So what are you talking about?
p.53 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
While I am disappointed that the 6D2 seems to provide neither a DR improvement or a significant high-iso improvement, I'd agree that Canon could have done better. I was hoping I'd want one to replace my 6D for astro, but at this point I'm staying with what I have (they've lost my sale). That said...
No way would my recommendation for landscape be one of their crop sensor cameras. 5DIV would probably be my first choice, followed by the 5DSR for someone that wants maximum resolution. For someone on a budget I'd recommend the 6D for full frame or an 80D for a crop.
You have experience with the 6D2 so I'll take your word for it. But do you really believe the 6D2 is a step backwards in IQ relative to the 6D? Looks like ISO 100 DR is similar and it does have a higher resolution...
RobDickinson wrote:
We are in an odd situation where if someone asks me for a canon recommendation to shoot landscapes I will be talking about a year and a half old crop sensored camera that isnt even top tier in canons crop lineup.
To my knowledge this is the first time canon have intentionally stepped back in image quality on their sensors and given us a compromised sensor design.
At any other time they have given us the best they can make at that time.
Now they have chosen to compromise IQ , either to sell more higher priced cameras or to reduce production costs or whatever.
That fact is the biggest surprise here. We now know canon can do better....Show more →
p.53 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
kylebarendrick wrote:
While I am disappointed that the 6D2 seems to provide neither a DR improvement or a significant high-iso improvement, I'd agree that Canon could have done better. I was hoping I'd want one to replace my 6D for astro, but at this point I'm staying with what I have (they've lost my sale). That said...
No way would my recommendation for landscape be one of their crop sensor cameras. 5DIV would probably be my first choice, followed by the 5DSR for someone that wants maximum resolution. For someone on a budget I'd recommend the 6D for full frame or an 80D for a crop.
You have experience with the 6D2 so I'll take your word for it. But do you really believe the 6D2 is a step backwards in IQ relative to the 6D? Looks like ISO 100 DR is similar and it does have a higher resolution...
I'm to recommend a $5000 (NZ) full frame camera (plus expensive lenses) to everyone?
No. People with that kind of money usually dont need my input.
Sure I could recommend a 6D, its not a bad camera and closer in price to the 80D but still lacks the DR we have been discussing - also is lower resolution than the 80D. Missing dual pixel, touch screen, flippy screen, the improved AF etc etc.
If someone asks me for a low light/astro recommendation I'll still be talking about the 6D
As it strands now if you dont have $5000 then the 80D is canons best landscape body.
p.53 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
JohnK007 wrote:
The Nikon D5 is, specifically, an action camera ... which presupposes 2 things: 1) a fast shutter-speed, which mandates 2) higher ISOs.
Therefore, the Nikon D5 was designed to be the best High ISO camera on the market.
(Regarding 'blowing out of the water,' between the D5 and the 1Dx II, you might want to view SenScore's Placement of the D5 ***IN THE NUMBER ONE POSITION*** with a 1438 DR rating.
If you go to this website, and if you're looking for the 1DxII's placement ... you'll need to scroll-down 10 spots lower than the D5 (beneath 5 other Nikons and 4 Sonys) ... and there you will find the 1DX II
24 places below the D5 is the original 6D
Well, if you are looking for Base ISO performance, then your solution would be another Nikon product ... the D810 ... which similarly bests any Canon camera ever made (or any DSLR, for that matter). And it's 3 years old.
The 1DX2's low ISO-DR blows the D5 out of the water.....that is all I said. I said nothing about an overall DR score which is some made up number anyways.
The D810 has better DR because it has 2/3 stop lower native ISO. At ISO 100 it is identical to 5D4 and 1DX2. The ISO 64 is a unique feature.
p.53 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
The bottom line is that Canon has now come out with a successor that a) is worse than its predecessor in DR and b) the APS-C of the same generation beats it.
That has never happened before, and for those that are saying this is market separation, that is ludicrous. If Canon had either 1) put a higher resolution 2012 6D sensor in this new body or 2) put a lower res 5D4 sensor in this body, then all the articles, news and bad press would be much, much smaller, discussing the lack of 4K video. That is all that it would take.
You don't separate your models by taking an existing line and going backward. You don't make a redesigned Mustang perform worse than the preceding model, it has been done, and it was disastrous for Ford in the pony car market. You separate your models by innovating a bit and mixing up features and new capabilities on the various models.
What this move has done is proven that Canon has gleaned as much as they can from their DSLR technology at this time, and they don't have too many other tricks to use to separate the lines. Canon needs to compete WITH THE OTHER COMPANIES, not within their own model lines.
p.53 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Where have you seen it for 5k nzd? The best I've found was about 5.5k
RobDickinson wrote:
I'm to recommend a $5000 (NZ) full frame camera (plus expensive lenses) to everyone?
No. People with that kind of money usually dont need my input.
Sure I could recommend a 6D, its not a bad camera and closer in price to the 80D but still lacks the DR we have been discussing - also is lower resolution than the 80D. Missing dual pixel, touch screen, flippy screen, the improved AF etc etc.
If someone asks me for a low light/astro recommendation I'll still be talking about the 6D
As it strands now if you dont have $5000 then the 80D is canons best landscape body.
p.53 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
We are in an odd situation where if someone asks me for a canon recommendation to shoot landscapes I will be talking about a year and a half old crop sensored camera that isnt even top tier in canons crop lineup.
To my knowledge this is the first time canon have intentionally stepped back in image quality on their sensors and given us a compromised sensor design.
At any other time they have given us the best they can make at that time.
Now they have chosen to compromise IQ , either to sell more higher priced cameras or to reduce production costs or whatever.
That fact is the biggest surprise here. We now know canon can do better. ...Show more → kylebarendrick wrote:
While I am disappointed that the 6D2 seems to provide neither a DR improvement or a significant high-iso improvement, I'd agree that Canon could have done better. I was hoping I'd want one to replace my 6D for astro, but at this point I'm staying with what I have (they've lost my sale). That said...
No way would my recommendation for landscape be one of their crop sensor cameras. 5DIV would probably be my first choice, followed by the 5DSR for someone that wants maximum resolution. For someone on a budget I'd recommend the 6D for full frame or an 80D for a crop.
You have experience with the 6D2 so I'll take your word for it. But do you really believe the 6D2 is a step backwards in IQ relative to the 6D? Looks like ISO 100 DR is similar and it does have a higher resolution... ...Show more → RobDickinson wrote:
I'm to recommend a $5000 (NZ) full frame camera (plus expensive lenses) to everyone?
No. People with that kind of money usually dont need my input.
Sure I could recommend a 6D, its not a bad camera and closer in price to the 80D but still lacks the DR we have been discussing - also is lower resolution than the 80D. Missing dual pixel, touch screen, flippy screen, the improved AF etc etc.
If someone asks me for a low light/astro recommendation I'll still be talking about the 6D
As it strands now if you dont have $5000 then the 80D is canons best landscape body. ...Show more → Isaacheus wrote:
Where have you seen it for 5k nzd? The best I've found was about 5.5k
I was generalizing really, in retail stores its more like $5400, but grey imports are now around $4500. Pretty sure you could wangle a discount from high street stores to get closer to 5k
p.53 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
The 6D2 has much nicer noise and shadows without banding compared to the 5D3. There are a bunch of nice things on the 5D3 but the 6D and 6D2 sensor are improvements on the 5D3. I certainly wouldn't jump on a 5D3 without weighing the pros and cons. The 6D2 has lots of other features that have been added to Canon's lineup since the 5D3. Even the AF system has more f/8 points in the 6D2 than the 5D3 and it may actually be better than the 5D3's system overall with newer processors.
The pro and cons have been laid out, 15Bit did a good comparison on page 42. Take a look, and tell me why you would take the 6DII over the 5DIII? If it's just for a small improvement in the sensor then it seems you would be flocking to Sony considering their sensors are kicking the chit out of Canon's sensors.
p.53 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
artsupreme wrote:
The pro and cons have been laid out, 15Bit did a good comparison on page 42. Take a look, and tell me why you would take the 6DII over the 5DIII? If it's just for a small improvement in the sensor then it seems you would be flocking to Sony considering their sensors are kicking the chit out of Canon's sensors.
I wouldn't be buying either as I already have a 5D4 and 1DX2. But if I had to choose one or the other I would weigh the pros and cons as I mentioned and as outlined by 15Bit. I would likely choose the 5D3 because of the joystick which is why I sold my 80D.....I really can't function without that anymore. If I was choosing on sensor alone it would be 6D2. Again, it all depends what matters to each individual but the 5D3 is not a guaranteed must buy over a 6D2.
p.53 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
The 1DX2's low ISO-DR blows the D5 out of the water.....that is all I said. I said nothing about an overall DR score which is some made up number anyways.
So what? Neither camera is shot at low ISOs ...
At challenging ISOs, where they're designed to be shot, it is the Nikon which retains the highest DR ... which along with it superior AF ... as well as Nikon's superior long glass ... make Nikon a 3-way leader in everything important about an action image.
arbitrage wrote:
The D810 has better DR because it has 2/3 stop lower native ISO. At ISO 100 it is identical to 5D4 and 1DX2. The ISO 64 is a unique feature.
Who cares where the D810 is 'equal' to the Canons ... it is superior to them where it counts.
Agree, ISO 64, with no filter, is a unique Nikon feature.
