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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Rusty1
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p.41 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

New 6DII post at Canon Digital Learning Center. They clarify some in-camera options regarding landscape and wild life.

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos-6d-markii/eos-6d-markii-landscape.shtml

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos-6d-markii/eos-6d-markii-nature-wildlife.shtml?categoryId=121

Jul 15, 2017 at 02:59 PM

RustyBug
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p.41 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Schlotkins wrote:
I'm sure they are basically trying to get money out of the old Fab still. So this is the old tech just a higher MPx sensor.

It could be they don't have enough room to make the 5DIV, 1DxII, upcoming 7Dm3 and probably 5dsII and so the "entry level" FF gets the old process.

I get that "higher MPx" with old sensor IS exactly how it's acting (i.e. marginally slightly lower DR, same shape). But ... correct me if I'm mistaken ... hasn't Canon indicated that it is indeed the NEW sensor (i.e. along with marketing DPAF, etc.)

If Canon said, "Hey, you asked for a flippy screen and AF @ f/8 and we gave that to you for a lower price point, and we kept the same excellent sensor from the original 6D, but gave more MP to keep the price point down." ... then, that would certainly make sense why we see what we see. But, that are saying NEW sensor, just might not be as much DR as 5D4 (which is quite different from lower than original 6D).

Again, it's not going to keep me from getting the 6D2, since I'm coming from so far back with my SLR/C, and only have crop at the moment. But, it is interesting to note (assuming it holds) that the most DR is at ISO 160, and the associated intermediate stair-step is still in play.

The show stopper for me with the original 6D was the no AF @ f/8 (i.e. tested with 100-400 II + TC III). So that's no longer an issue ... I'm in (and the flippy is gravy).

Edited on Jul 15, 2017 at 03:29 PM · View previous versions

Jul 15, 2017 at 03:18 PM

arbitrage
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p.41 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Jul 15, 2017 at 03:22 PM

arbitrage
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p.41 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RustyBug wrote:
I get that "higher MPx" with old sensor IS exactly how it's acting (i.e. marginally slightly lower DR, same shape). But ... correct me if I'm mistaken ... hasn't Canon indicated that it is indeed the NEW sensor (i.e. DPAF, etc.)

If Canon said, "Hey, you asked for a flippy screen and AF @ f/8 and we gave that to you for a lower price point, and we kept the same excellent sensor from the original 6D, but gave more MP to keep the price point down." ... then, that would certainly make sense why we see what we see. But,...Show more →

It is a DPAF sensor but so was the 70D and it was old lower DR sensor.
The new sensors like 1DX2 and 5D4 still have the stepping at the low ISO but the difference is the curve is straight so that ISO 100 is equal to ISO 160. With the older design the curve is curved from ~ISO 1250 and down and that does make ISO 160 the winner.

Jul 15, 2017 at 03:23 PM

RustyBug
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p.41 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

arbitrage wrote:
It is a DPAF sensor but so was the 70D and it was old lower DR sensor.
The new sensors like 1DX2 and 5D4 still have the stepping at the low ISO but the difference is the curve is straight so that ISO 100 is equal to ISO 160. With the older design the curve is curved from ~ISO 1250 and down and that does make ISO 160 the winner.

Personally, I'm used to life @ ISO 160 (Kodak SLR/C base ISO) ... was really hoping to see it follow suit like the 80D, 5D4, etc. and go lower to get cleaner. Oh well ... if it isn't to be, it isn't to be. It'll still be a welcome add to the bag.

Jul 15, 2017 at 03:35 PM

RobDickinson
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p.41 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

If what we found is true I will be very very dissapointed.

Before we knew canon struggled with dynamic range. Now the last few releases have been much improved.

There is no excuse to skip this improvement in the 6dmk2.

Jul 15, 2017 at 05:55 PM

Rusty1
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p.41 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Rusty1 wrote:
Never thought matching or exceeding DR of the 5D4 sensor made business sense. However I expected a new sensor to be measurably better than the original 6D.

That said, for shooting stills and my first FF the 6D2 looks the best option to complement the 7D2 I use for action/wildlife. Looking at Nikon things are not so rosy with QC right now and the Sony cameras have a great future but I don't think they are quite there yet with bodies, ergonomics or lens.

For portraits I don't see DR as an issue and I would bracket landscapes regardless of sensor. Right now for me the 6D2 looks like a good fit.

Obviously YMMV.

Jul 15, 2017 at 06:33 PM

RustyBug
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p.41 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
If what we found is true I will be very very dissapointed.

Before we knew canon struggled with dynamic range. Now the last few releases have been much improved.

There is no excuse to skip this improvement in the 6dmk2.

Hard to disagree.

Sounds like the 6D2 might be a candidate to be a controversially epic release ... disappointments in DR (if it holds true) vs. excitement in flippy screen / AF.

Jul 15, 2017 at 08:51 PM

MatthewK
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p.41 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

6D2 = the 24-105 II of the camera body world? It's contemporary peers had been so good up to that point, there was so much potential for it to be a home run, and yet it barely surpassed it's predecessor

Jul 15, 2017 at 09:31 PM

artificialyello
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p.41 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Charts from p2p to ponder...

DR: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Canon%20EOS%206D,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II

Noise: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV_14,Canon%20EOS%206D_14,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II_14

Jul 16, 2017 at 12:56 AM

Rusty1
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p.41 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

artificialyello wrote:
Charts from p2p to ponder...

DR: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Canon%20EOS%206D,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II

Noise: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV_14,Canon%20EOS%206D_14,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II_14

Well that would be 2012 performance from the 5D3 with 2mgs and a swivel screen added. Excuse me now as I step back and scratch my head for awhile.

Jul 16, 2017 at 06:16 AM

jcolwell
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p.41 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Looks like I'm heading towards the 5D IV.

Jul 16, 2017 at 07:05 AM

RustyBug
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p.41 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

artificialyello wrote:
Charts from p2p to ponder...

DR: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Canon%20EOS%206D,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II

Noise: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV_14,Canon%20EOS%206D_14,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II_14

Yup, that pretty much goes along with my point that with the evidence to date the rising tide hasn't lift this boat.

5D3 sensor ... makes a used 5D3 seem like a viable option for bargain hunters into FF. Still no flippy screen, but AF @ f/8 + dual slots, etc.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Canon%20EOS%201D%20X%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20II_14,Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV_14,Canon%20EOS%206D_14,Canon%20EOS%206D%20Mark%20II_14

The take away in this chart ^ for me is that while the 6D2 matches the 5D3 ... the read noise of the 80D nearly matches the 5D4 at ISO 100, In that regard, for ISO 100 shooting means there is practically little improvement to be gained with a new body (for the purpose of cleaner low ISO). As the ISO chart climbs, the obvious gains are there in FF over APS-C.

I was hoping for the 6D2 to be a much closer match to the 80D at low ISO ... just FF. Of course, going from 2004 FF to 2012 FF might still be okay for me

but 2016 would be nicer.

While it may be a disappointment, it will undoubtedly still be a change in my bag from FF @ one trick pony, to a new world of ISO opportunities. I'll just have to know that for low ISO, the 80D is the cleaner of the two if I plan on any extreme shadow lifting (which I rarely do). From 320 - 1,000 (except 640), it's splittin' hairs territory (80D vs. 6D2), and north of 1,000 it is advantage 6D2.

I've always equated the high vs. low ISO performance somewhat akin to where you place the fulcrum as to how steep vs. which side of things gets the most support. From this, the middle ground is about even, low goes to the 80D, high goes to the 6D2.
You want something that supports best of all worlds (supported at both ends vs. a single fulcrum pivot point) in a single body ... 5D4 vs. 80D + 6D2. Me, I've always been good with "one for low, one for go" meaning diff tools play to different strengths. And, to a degree the two bodies play backup duty a bit for each other (albeit not the same).

Gonna be interesting to see what hits the street and the non-DR dependent IQ we see (i.e. tonality, color, etc.).
For those who want / need higher ISO performance, adequate (vs. most) DR @ low ISO may not be a concern. If DR at low ISO hasn't lifted, then the tonality should remain much as we've seen in the original 6D. Color fidelity, otoh is yet to be test evaluated for how they may have changed things there ...

Jul 16, 2017 at 07:40 AM

RustyBug
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p.41 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

jcolwell wrote:
Looks like I'm heading towards the 5D IV.

With the 80D in my bag ... the 6D2 still makes a pretty good mate for me.

I may use the 6D2 mostly with my 16-35 and 24L TS-E II ... alt glass could go either way ... and dedicating my 100-400L II on the 80D, switching off for low light needs. Of course, mix & match affords a bevy of combinations, too. Knowing that I can go 100-400 + TC on the 6D2 should bode well for low light critters ... yet the pixel density of the 80D (slightly more dense than 5Ds) can play nice in good light and macro detail.

5D4 covers both ends on the ISO realm ... but, it still doesn't get you the pixel density of 5DsR / 80D territory. In other words, there still is no single body that can cover all aspects. Some folks double up with a 1DX and 5DsR for big & little pixels ... poor man territory = 6D / 6D2 + 80D.

Jul 16, 2017 at 08:59 AM

jcolwell
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p.41 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

jcolwell wrote:
Looks like I'm heading towards the 5D IV.

RustyBug wrote:
With the 80D in my bag ... the 6D2 still makes a pretty good mate for me.

I may use the 6D2 mostly with my 16-35 and 24L TS-E II ... alt glass could go either way ... and dedicating my 100-400L II on the 80D, switching off for low light needs. Of course, mix & match affords a bevy of combinations, too.

That makes perfectly good sense.

OTOH, I have two 6D (1DIV, SL1,...). For me, going from the 6D to 6D II, would be similar to going from the 24-105/4L IS to the 24-105/4L IS II, which I did. I soon returned the Mk II, because it didn't provide the increased IQ that I expected (based on my previous Mk II upgrades for the 16-35/2.8L, 24-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L IS, and 100-400L IS). Sure, the 24-105/4L IS II has much improved IS and AF, but I expected that, plus a step-up in IQ (at edges and corners). Similarly, the 6DII will provide improved AF and other useful features, but it will not provide an increase in DR (a useful IQ metric, along with resolution and noise), and so it offers an incomplete upgrade, for me. The 5DIV provides a complete 'upgrade package', across all major features, and so that's where I'm likely headed; barring a 5DSR, or sudden-onset dementia (i.e. A7RII). IOW, I've crossed the 6DII off my camera upgrade list, and so it's down to two (or so), which should make it an easy decision; ...right?

P.S. I'm most likely to head in the two-5DIV direction described by @garyvot, in the 'DMV' thread. Plus, an IR-converted 6D on the side.

Jul 16, 2017 at 09:17 AM

EB-1
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p.41 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

You and many others have a 6D to a larger degree because it had a unique sensor for Canon at the time compared to the 5D III. Now that the II doesn't have anything special the 5D IV is a better choice for those that don't already have them.

EBH

Jul 16, 2017 at 09:35 AM

jcolwell
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p.41 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

EB-1 wrote:
You and many others have a 6D to a larger degree because it had a unique sensor for Canon at the time compared to the 5D III. Now that the II doesn't have anything special the 5D IV is a better choice for those that don't already have them.

EBH

That's exactly how I'm thinking about it, too.

Jul 16, 2017 at 09:57 AM

Chip1125
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p.41 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

...so, is the 6D mkII going to have the same high ISO IQ as the 6D has?

Jul 16, 2017 at 11:16 AM

RustyBug
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p.41 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Chip1125 wrote:
...so, is the 6D mkII going to have the same high ISO IQ as the 6D has?

By IQ ... is that referring to DR, or does that include tonality and color fidelity, et al ?

If we don't see much diff in DR / noise, then hopefully the payoff will come in the form of even better tonality and color. But, we still have to "wait & see" to a certain degree.

Jul 16, 2017 at 12:00 PM

RustyBug
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p.41 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

jcolwell wrote:
That makes perfectly good sense.

OTOH, I have two 6D (1DIV, SL1,...). For me, going from the 6D to 6D II, would be similar to going from the 24-105/4L IS to the 24-105/4L IS II, which I did. I soon returned the Mk II, because it didn't provide the increased IQ that I expected (based on my previous Mk II upgrades for the 16-35/2.8L, 24-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L IS, and 100-400L IS). Sure, the 24-105/4L IS II has much improved IS and AF, but I expected that, plus a step-up in IQ (at edges and corners). Similarly, the 6DII will provide improved...Show more →

Yup, the flippy screen and a few extra MP is kinda like ketchup on a certified Angus burger ... it still ain't a filet, no matter how you slice it. For those who's current position is Ground Chuck or Bologna, certified Angus is an upgrade. For those who already have certified Angus, it's just more ketchup.

Looks like I'll be having a big helping of certified Angus and a petite portion of prime rib.

Jul 16, 2017 at 12:16 PM

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