p.36 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Dima135 wrote:
It's very strange that the Canon does not care about DR. If I buy a big, expensive camera with not the best autofocus, not the fastest, not the lighest and pocketable - I want quality, good potential for processing, good textures and low artefacts. Some inexpensive crop 1.5 body give a slightly less detail, but who cares when this detail will drown in the noise and artifacts after postprocessing ? And I'm not talking about some extreme pushing shadows. All who works with 5d3 or 5d2 and who need to save large resolution files with clean textures and pure details knows what i talking about....Show more →
You are talking about the smallest, cheapest (at introduction), lightest, fastest Canon FF camera 6D II here with extremly enhanced AF, arenīt you? It might fit into your pocket, but I am pretty sure it will not feel very comfortable.
5D II is a 9 year old body, 5D III a 7 year old one. Both where already overhelmed by 6D in thermes of IQ (clean texture and pure detail, top High ISO capabilities, size and price) 5 years ago. As far I understand, it is overhelmed in as good as nearly all points by its newly introduced follow up 6D II, too. Except it seems 6D II remain at the same/comparable base level at low ISO settings and video capabilities. And of course it still does not have a joystick.
Its okay, when you find this very strange. But I do not see that it means that Canon does not care about DR.
p.36 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
Bill, have you run your own analysis on these RAWs yet? Or are you waiting for a full release camera? Would be interesting to see if your testing method results will agree with what cgarcia has generated so far.
p.36 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
You are talking about the smallest, cheapest (at introduction), lightest, fastest Canon FF camera 6D II here with extremly enhanced AF, arenīt you? It might fit into your pocket, but I am pretty sure it will not feel very comfortable.
5D II is a 9 year old body, 5D III a 6 year old one. Both where already overhelmed by 6D in Thermes of IQ (clean texture and pure detail, top High ISO capabilities, size and price 5 years ago. As far I understand, it is overhelmed in all cases by its newly introduced follow up 6D II. Except it seems 6D II remain at the same/comparable base level at low ISO settings.
Its okay, when you find this very strange. But I do not see that it means that Canon does not care about DR.
Conny, with the on-chip ADC, I think that it is almost technically impossible to lose DR advantage, which was brought to the 5DIV or even the APS-C 80D cameras, being done using the same technology process. Stating this, it might mean, that either the sensor production process was different, Canon used some old design, or - it was done on purpose.
If Canon did that on purpose, maybe some small part of the user community might try to invoke a ban on certain markets, as Canon reps publicly claimed the sensor performance is on par with the 5DIV, which does not seem to be a case.
I have my 6DII on preorder and I will most probably buy, as our 70D is aging. I am just going to be really disappointed, if all those DR reports are going to be confirmed. In such case - any negativity, which can be noticed by Canon company, is a good one - might cause a slight stir at their management/development levels and maybe, just maybe, next time, we will receive a better treatment/product.
p.36 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
-pekr- wrote:
Conny, with the on-chip ADC, I think that it is almost technically impossible to lose DR advantage, which was brought to the 5DIV or even the APS-C 80D cameras, being done using the same technology process. Stating this, it might mean, that either the sensor production process was different, Canon used some old design, or - it was done on purpose.
If Canon did that on purpose, maybe some small part of the user community might try to invoke a ban on certain markets, as Canon reps publicly claimed the sensor performance is on par with the 5DIV, which does not seem to be a case.
I have my 6DII on preorder and I will most probably buy, as our 70D is aging. I am just going to be really disappointed, if all those DR reports are going to be confirmed. In such case - any negativity, which can be noticed by Canon company, is a good one - might cause a slight stir at their management/development levels and maybe, just maybe, next time, we will receive a better treatment/product.
Hello pekr,
yes I confirm. But up to date evry DR critics are in the clouds. We will see if how it turned out.
I am pretty sure coming from 70D the new 6D II will be a great step forward for you in ANY case and you will be happy with it. If it turns out that DR indeed is not on par with 5D IV, 1D X II, 80D although Canon claimed this, I think we all have the right to cry and damm Canon to hell. But this does not mean that I have to sit here and accept any untruth bashing of Canon cameras. Imo evreything Dima wrote in his post is just wrong. That was the cause of my answer post.
I myself look around. The Sony A9 looks great to me, if this banding problem is not an averadge. I still might have problems with the aliasing of EVFs (what I found still to be to irritating to switch from opticals) of all A7 bodies. I have to check first with A9. But this is a body not really in my price range.
p.36 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
alundeb wrote:
Can anyone refer to one single case in the 15 years history of DSLR's where image quality has been different between pre-production units available after announcement, and production units?
p.36 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
I think we all have the right to cry and damm Canon to hell.
Well, maybe not the latter part of that.
I'm sure that folks will have a significant disappointment response. But, they wouldn't be the first mfr to bring a disappointment to market. It will raise the question of "Okay, so if my concerns over DR at base ISO (noting that it catches the 5D4 a few stops later) is my primary concern, then what are my options and what am I willing to sacrifice to achieve the higher base ISO DR?"
5 Series / 1 Series / 80D
Sony / Nikon / Pentax
Medium Format (which btw, doesn't have as high DR as one might think)
Or,
Base ISO in't THAT important because I want the ability to shoot critters, events, night work, etc. (which typically means lower light, or higher ss speeds or BOTH) and I live in ISO 400 & up. In some regard, it still means that if you're in the market for a great shotgun, the fact that it isn't also the greatest sniper rifle too doesn't take away from the fact it is still an excellent shotgun.
Me, I'm not wanting the 6D II for it's low light capability (although, it comes as a welcome bonus). So, if my disappointment that the 6D II doesn't match my 80D (6D II MP sitting between 5D4 & 1DX II) for base ISO (I saw no reason to anticipate otherwise, till now) ... then, it isn't the camera I am looking for to replace my SLR/C for base ISO considerations. But, if I look at all that I'm getting beyond base ISO ... well, that's a different perspective.
For many others ... take pause to consider what your expectations are for this camera to be. If we aren't going to get the base ISO DR (noting again, it catches up in a few stops of ISO) in the 6D II ... is that your'e primary mission or is it the secondary "Woo-Hoo" that many of us have been anticipating (and still hoping for, albeit with an eye to what's been presented so far).
Still hoping for closer to 80D base IQ ... but, still evaluating what that means, if not to be ... both with or without the 6D2 in the bag.
p.36 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I have figured it all out!
Just like all the big car manufactures do with a new model car. They build a few "sample" cars and take them out on the streets BEFORE the actual release but cloak them in white plastic so no one knows exactly what it looks like. Then when it's finally released everyone is going ooh and aah!
Canon is now doing the same thing for a new marketing strategy!
They hired a pro photog to "accidentally" release images from a pre-production model that is purposely under performing on the DR side, knowing full well all us nutjobs would be eagerly ripping into the EXIF data and running them through all the number crunching test.
Then a huge uproar and a massive amount of attention and free press is given to this new model.
And then in a "Steve Jobs" type unveiling.
Canon announces to the world, a new era of extreme DR and high ISO performance is now upon us!
>the crowd gasps with anticipation<
They bring us the new Canon 6D Mark II!!!
>the crowd goes crazy<
The likes of which have never been seen before and rivals all the other competition by such an extreme margin that it will take an entire decade before they can even come close to this quantum technology!
Then Dave laughs and sheds a few tears of joy waiting for his pre-ordered 6D quantum II to arrive.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have had those last 2 or 3 drinks last night but WTH, it's fun to dream.
On a serious note:
I've been doing a ton of research about DR and I'm starting to think that IF the 6DII is not upto the same base ISO performance as the 80D or 5DIV, I might not even give a damn as long as it brings forth outstanding high ISO performance. Coupled with all the other new improvements they have made to this body, I think this is still going to be the best option for me.
As one of the articles I've read said, There is a lot more to a camera's IQ performance other than just DR and one must take everything into consideration and look at the big picture.
No pun intended.
p.36 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I have 5Dm2 (since 2009) and 80D. For me it is quite black and white: if the DR at ISO100 on the 6Dm2 is not at the 5Dm4 level then it is a no buy for me.
I will either buy the 5Dm4 or wait for 5DSm2.
Jul 10, 2017 at 08:49 AM
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p.36 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
There is a lot more to a camera's IQ performance other than just DR and one must take everything into consideration and look at the big picture.
No pun intended.
Dear Dave, you are absolutely right. And it's great that you still believe in dragons, fairies and gnomes.
If DR and all other aspects of a new camera must be taken into consideration then we must not forget MSRP factor. For me 2k$ for subpar DR (inferior to the recent model) is too much. If so I will wait 5 more years and pray for Canon to improve DR by + 0.5EV the next gen of 6D line camera
p.36 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I hadn't realized that even the 77D and t7i got improved DR but after looking at the DPR comparison tool posted a few pages back the 77D is actually better than the 80D even (a very small amount but finer noise and sharper details). The original 6D actually holds up fairly well to the newer cameras compared to the atrocity known as the 5D3. Of course the 5D4 and 1DX2 show another level of improvement over the APS-C sensors. Then if you really want to see the current pinnacle of shadow pushing you just select the D750 (A7R2 and D810 also).
p.36 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
On a serious note:
I've been doing a ton of research about DR and I'm starting to think that IF the 6DII is not upto the same base ISO performance as the 80D or 5DIV, I might not even give a damn as long as it brings forth outstanding high ISO performance. Coupled with all the other new improvements they have made to this body, I think this is still going to be the best option for me.
As one of the articles I've read said, There is a lot more to a camera's IQ performance other than just DR and one must take everything into consideration and look at the big picture.
No pun intended.
You are absolutely right that there is more to a cameras overall IQ than just base ISO DR. And if for you personally thats not a huge deal, then I have no doubts in my mind that the 6DII (given current assumptions about DR) will still be an excellent camera for you.
In fact as a current 6D shooter, I imagine it would still be an excellent shooter for me too. The articulating screen in particular for me would be super nice to have. But for what I like to shoot, base ISO DR is very important, and with no increase there at all, my issue is that for me personally, this is essentially spending $2000 for ergonomics only and no real performance improvement. And I really don't think thats worth it. I could sell my 6D and offset the cost quite a bit, but even then, I could save all that money and keep it in my bank account until a camera comes out that actually satisfies my needs/wants or put it towards a lens... been eyeing that 11-24.
Anyways, I jumped the gun by preordering, and cancelling was the right thing for me to do. Now I can wait until we can some real production reviews and tests and make a decision then. Still hoping that it will live up to my expectations, and if so, its not a big deal that I will have to wait for the second batch of stock. And if it doesnt, well, I wont have jumped in to a product that doesnt fit my needs.
p.36 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
AlexDROP wrote:
Dear Dave, you are absolutely right. And it's great that you still believe in dragons, fairies and gnomes.
If DR and all other aspects of a new camera must be taken into consideration then we must not forget MSRP factor. For me 2k$ for subpar DR (inferior to the recent model) is too much. If so I will wait 5 more years and pray for Canon to improve DR by + 0.5EV the next gen of 6D line camera
Damn it! Get the heck out of my fantasy man!
I'm still holding out for a big Canon surprise. They have been know to hold things back as a surprise and being that the 6D achieved legendary status for it's DR and especially high ISO performance, I suspect we will be seeing something very exciting soon.
Of course I am a mere mortal and have been know to be wrong from time to time.
Well, ok, most of the time if you ask my wife but still.
And just for the record. I'm not sure about the fairies and gnomes thing but Dragons do exist!
p.36 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
It makes little sense, but then these things often make little sense, for Canon to produce and sell a new body that doesn't share the same technologies that are present in every body made since the 80D, including the 5D4 and the 1DX2. My M5 has the 80D sensor, more or less. It makes me very curious, that's for sure.
I recommend waiting for a production body to see what the 6D2 produces if you're concerned a great deal about base ISO DR. It's not necessarily a show-stopper at the price range offered, given the other improvements over the 6D, but it certainly is worth consideration.
p.36 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
What is interesting about the analysis on photonstophotos.com is that if you aren't concerned with high ISO performance the story is terrible. I primarily shoot landscapes, so rarely do I exceed ISO 400. If you add other cameras to the analysis it shows that at ISO 100 dynamic range is significantly worse than the 80D and equivalent to the 5D Mark III. At ISO 400 all three cameras are about equal.
Given that you could buy a crop sensor camera using the identical AF and having better dynamic range, the 6D Mark II doesn't scream upgrade potential to me. If you want FF, go buy a slightly used 5D Mark III or a used 6D (which also has better DR). I was really looking forward to upgrading, but now I might set off to research Sony.
p.36 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
ironmarshal wrote:
What is interesting about the analysis on photonstophotos.com is that if you aren't concerned with high ISO performance the story is terrible. I primarily shoot landscapes, so rarely do I exceed ISO 400. If you add other cameras to the analysis it shows that at ISO 100 dynamic range is significantly worse than the 80D and equivalent to the 5D Mark III. At ISO 400 all three cameras are about equal.
Given that you could buy a crop sensor camera using the identical AF and having better dynamic range, the 6D Mark II doesn't scream upgrade potential to me. If you want FF, go buy a slightly used 5D Mark III or a used 6D (which also has better DR). I was really looking forward to upgrading, but now I might set off to research Sony....Show more →
p.36 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
ironmarshal wrote:
, but now I might set off to research Sony.
The only thing about sony is the adapters to canon lenses not AF'ing as fast. But if you shoot landscapes that is something that is not going to affect you much, if at all.
Look at the specs for the upcoming A7iii, it going to kill the 6Dii in just about every area and is projected to be around $2300.
p.36 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Sometimes it seems that some people was cheated with somebody with a 5D3 in the hand.
So much lies on its IQ (IQ <> DR) only could be maintened if you were very emotionaly damaged.
p.36 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
ironmarshal wrote:
What is interesting about the analysis on photonstophotos.com is that if you aren't concerned with high ISO performance the story is terrible. ...
