ilkka_nissila wrote:
That is an interesting response. It does look like it really came from the design team. The marketing people would never say that it sometimes can focus on something contrasty which is not the intended subject but that it can happen. The designers of course understand the limitations of the system and seem to want to help out.
If a system is designed to respond fast to changes in distance in either direction, chances are it is also likely to focus on a different subject at a different distance.
Note as repeated in Nikon's previous answer: dynamic area doesn't track subject movement laterally but 3D (and auto) is for that. I think a part of the problem is that some users believe that it should track the subject within the dynamic area and this influences how they try to use it. The instructions given seem to the point: do your best to keep the primary point on the subject. If focus is lost, if the subject is good and contrasty, just keep shooting until it picks up the subject again. Or, let go of the button and restart taking care to point at the subject. (I guess having a short blocked shot response allows faster reacquisition of the subject.)
It is quite nice and unusual to get a direct answer from designers at Nikon Japan. ...Show more →
I think you've overlooked an important bit of info. A part of the response said
"I apologize for the delay, and for the confusion. According to our design group at Nikon Corp, the Dynamic Area AF function has been enhanced with the newest AF sensor, particularly for subjects moving toward or away from the camera.
Dynamic Area AF (9, 53, 72, or 153 point) does not track the subject, however it will expand the area the subject will remain focused should it BRIEFLY leave the initial focus point.
If the subject leaves the selected number of AF points, then the camera will refocus.
If the subject leaves the initial focus area and enough time has lapsed before the subject is recentered, the camera will refocus."Dynamic Area AF (9, 53, 72, or 153 point) does not track the subject, however it will expand the area the subject will remain focused should it BRIEFLY leave the initial focus point.
Nikon is saying the selected number of points should hold focus. They do not. 1 second or less after leaving the primary focus the D500 will refocus, whether the remaining number of points are on the target or not. As I said on DP, this is a "Got ya Nikon" moment. Now Nikon - FIX IT!
T-O Shooter wrote:
I think you've overlooked an important bit of info. A part of the response said
"I apologize for the delay, and for the confusion. According to our design group at Nikon Corp, the Dynamic Area AF function has been enhanced with the newest AF sensor, particularly for subjects moving toward or away from the camera.
Dynamic Area AF (9, 53, 72, or 153 point) does not track the subject, however it will expand the area the subject will remain focused should it BRIEFLY leave the initial focus point.
If the subject leaves the selected number of AF points, then the camera will refocus.
If the subject leaves the initial focus area and enough time has lapsed before the subject is recentered, the camera will refocus."Dynamic Area AF (9, 53, 72, or 153 point) does not track the subject, however it will expand the area the subject will remain focused should it BRIEFLY leave the initial focus point.
Nikon is saying the selected number of points should hold focus. They do not. 1 second or less after leaving the primary focus the D500 will refocus, whether the remaining number of points are on the target or not. As I said on DP, this is a "Gotta Nikon" moment. Now Nikon - FIX IT!...Show more →
Dr. Ichirostein does not know how his creation behaves.
AnnJS wrote:
One second to regain position of the target is sufficient for many photographers — but it may need practice to reach that level of capability.
I think that Nikon's statement makes it rather clear that AF is performing "as designed" on the D5 and D500; and they see no reason to "FIX IT!" ?
Give it a rest. I doubt if you're all that. I can get my primary AF point back on the target as well as you can I would bet. But when I bought the D500 I paid for a properly working dynamic AF, described as in Ken G's latest response from Nikon. I didn't pay to have to use a workaround.
T-O Shooter wrote:
Give it a rest. I doubt if you're all that. I can get my primary AF point back on the target as well as you can I would bet. But when I bought the D500 I paid for a properly working dynamic AF, described as in Ken G's latest response from Nikon. I didn't pay to have to use a workaround.
By my count, there are three competent photographers in this thread who possess the skill necessary to operate Nikon's flagships. The rest of us are loser hacks.
henry albert wrote:
By my count, there are three competent photographers in this thread who possess the skill necessary to operate Nikon's flagships. The rest of us are loser hacks.
Yes you're probably right! They're not shy to point it out either. I'm surprised we're even allowed in their presence. I probably should be bowing down though.
"Give it a rest. I doubt if you're all that. I can get my primary AF point back on the target as well as you can I would bet."
apparently not.
"Yes you're probably right! They're not shy to point it out either. I'm surprised we're even allowed in their presence. I probably should be bowing down though."
Oh you mean kinda like your behavior on the DP forums?
AnnJS wrote:
One second to regain position of the target is sufficient for many photographers — but it may need practice to reach that level of capability.
I think that Nikon's statement makes it rather clear that AF is performing "as designed" on the D5 and D500; and they see no reason to "FIX IT!" ?
It may very well be sufficient but I still don't think you understand the issue being discussed. The issue is that there is no significant difference between what happens with using a single point vs what happens using D153 (or any mode in between). The Dynamic mode just doesn't do anything beyond what a single point does. You can set the delay longer but you can do that for single point also.
So this has nothing to do with one's skill level as you continue to point out, it has to do with a bunch of redundant, useless modes in their current irritation.
So yes, they do need to FIX IT or get rid of the Dynamic mode altogether.
p.29 #10 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
I'm just so glad the internet forums don't design cameras like the D5.
Some individuals only want a camera to include features that they personally use, and no one else is supposed to be allowed to have anything different included. There could never be agreement of what the camera should be like.
If something doesn't work for you, just leave it be and use something else. There are others who are using those features and dependent on them.
p.29 #11 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Maybe its just my newness to this camera, but my BIF and nature shots keeper rate is much improved with this body, I am loving it. As I get more experience I might better understand all the concern, but as of now no complaints from me
p.29 #12 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
ilkka_nissila wrote:
I'm just so glad the internet forums don't design cameras like the D5.
Some individuals only want a camera to include features that they personally use, and no one else is supposed to be allowed to have anything different included. There could never be agreement of what the camera should be like.
If something doesn't work for you, just leave it be and use something else. There are others who are using those features and dependent on them.
You are completely missing the point. Which is: dynamic has changed and not for the better. I don't know how I could explain it any clearer than several people already have, and I'm not going to try. Go back and read the thread.
Jul 01, 2017 at 08:43 AM
T-O Shooter Offline • • [X]
p.29 #13 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
smkunder wrote:
Maybe its just my newness to this camera, but my BIF and nature shots keeper rate is much improved with this body, I am loving it. As I get more experience I might better understand all the concern, but as of now no complaints from me
D500 or D5? What body did you move from? What mode are you using for you BIF shots? How much BIF shooting have you done? What lenses are you shooting with? What birds do you shoot? Where? ( bird sanctuaries, in the wild )
Tell me enough and I'll explain it away!
Anyway, glad it's working for you. There is certainly improvements in the D5 / D500 AF, but they bastardized Dynamic.
p.29 #14 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Came from a D7000, which I still have and love, pretty much use group AF, some single point. Currently reading Steve Perry's Secrets to autofocus. Mainly use 200-500 lens and 300AFS F4. All my work is done in the wild, mostly from a kayak. Been shooting BIF and nature for twenty years. Even after reading this thread I would still purchase my D500, and from looking at all the pics people post, many are having great results. Not trying to be combative, if something has changed for the worse, so far it has not affected my love for this camera. Happy shooting!
Jul 01, 2017 at 11:22 AM
T-O Shooter Offline • • [X]
p.29 #15 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
T-O Shooter wrote:
D500 or D5? What body did you move from? What mode are you using for you BIF shots? How much BIF shooting have you done? What lenses are you shooting with? What birds do you shoot? Where? ( bird sanctuaries, in the wild )
Tell me enough and I'll explain it away!
Anyway, glad it's working for you. There is certainly improvements in the D5 / D500 AF, but they bastardized Dynamic.
smkunder wrote:
Came from a D7000, which I still have and love, pretty much use group AF, some single point. Currently reading Steve Perry's Secrets to autofocus. Mainly use 200-500 lens and 300AFS F4. All my work is done in the wild, mostly from a kayak. Been shooting BIF and nature for twenty years. Even after reading this thread I would still purchase my D500, and from looking at all the pics people post, many are having great results. Not trying to be combative, if something has changed for the worse, so far it has not affected my love for this camera. Happy shooting!...Show more →
Well I can see your enthusiasm coming from a D7000. A huge jump. I used to own one, and still have my 300 AFS f4 that I shot with it. ( AF dead now - another story ) A nice combination.
But if you're happy with group and single point, you're not having group focus on wing tips, or other parts that are not what you intend to focus on but are closer to the camera, than there's certainly no reason for you to be anything other than happy.
But I shoot Dynamic AF mostly and was looking for the Dx equivalent of my D4s. Didn't get it. I shoot the D500, when I shoot it, with either group or single point, but I didn't pay for a non Dynamic AF DSLR. I think Ken G's latest response from Nikon over on DP gives some hope. He just needs to convince them that we didn't get what they think we got, and to get them to do something about it. A small Everest maybe.
p.29 #16 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
T-O Shooter wrote:
[Nikon: ]"Dynamic Area AF (9, 53, 72, or 153 point) does not track the subject, however it will expand the area the subject will remain focused should it BRIEFLY leave the initial focus point."
Nikon is saying the selected number of points should hold focus. They do not. 1 second or less after leaving the primary focus the D500 will refocus, whether the remaining number of points are on the target or not.
There is no conflict between what they say above and what you describe. The key is the word "BRIEFLY". Auxiliary points help focus on the subject while the primary point doesn't see anything to focus on, for a split second. The the system forces refocus on the primary point whether there is a good focus target or not.
It doesn't help your cause if you repeatedly distort the facts. Auxiliary points are used to focus but the system is designed based on the idea that the photographer always tries to keep the primary point on target and only brief relapses are permitted (similar to camera shake). How long auxiliary points are used is a design decision which affects the precision of the results. Short "BRIEF" time allows the photographer to exercise greater control but it is more demanding to use.
Single point may seem to behave very similarly to dynamic if the subject is mainly moving laterally in the image (e.g. left to right). However, if the subject is moving rapidly towards or away from the camera, then the distinguishing behavior of dynamic area becomes more clear.
p.29 #17 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
"However, if the subject is moving rapidly towards or away from the camera, then the distinguishing behavior of dynamic area becomes more clear."
This also a key point,as in Nikons reply: According to our design group at Nikon Corp, the Dynamic Area AF function has been enhanced with the newest AF sensor, particulary for subjects moving toward or away from the camera.
This FACT is being totally ignored by the(few) naysayers.
Jul 01, 2017 at 04:28 PM
T-O Shooter Offline • • [X]
p.29 #18 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
Robert Dull wrote:
"However, if the subject is moving rapidly towards or away from the camera, then the distinguishing behavior of dynamic area becomes more clear."
This also a key point,as in Nikons reply: According to our design group at Nikon Corp, the Dynamic Area AF function has been enhanced with the newest AF sensor, particulary for subjects moving toward or away from the camera.
This FACT is being totally ignored by the(few) naysayers.
How is it relevant? I'm not having issues with my D4s or D810 for that. I would expect the D500 to be as good. And there may be few naysayers, going with your term, as I'd prefer astute shooters, because as they say "ignorance is bliss"
p.29 #19 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
T-O Shooter wrote:
How is it relevant? I'm not having issues with my D4s or D810 for that. I would expect the D500 to be as good. And there may be few naysayers, going with your term, as I'd prefer astute shooters, because as they say "ignorance is bliss"
Give it up, man. These Flat Earth Society members will accept no facts that conflict with their opinions. It's a slippery slope they face. I mean, if they admit there's something different about dynamic, what's next that could force them into changing their minds? Finding out that Neil Armstrong really did step onto the moon and not onto a sound stage in Nevada? That the CIA didn't have a second gunner on the grassy knoll? That Homer Simpson doesn't really work at a nuclear plant? Think of the emotional trauma that could cause. I don't want to be the cause of that, which is why I surrendered and left the debate battlefield.
