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Archive 2017 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

genji
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Jonas B wrote:
Hey Juha - Thank you for all the 40/1.2 images!

Exif, distance reporting and such is nice to have. The image quality, judging by the samples is pretty good. Good enough? Maybe. In my opinion they should have made the lens a little slower focusing more on micro-contrast and chromatic aberrations than on speed. Perhaps the f/1.2 is about bragging rights and a high price tag?

Exactly. I would have preferred for the reasons you suggest but also because it would have been a little smaller. In addition to bragging rights (first 40mm f/1.2 lens) and high price tag (suggested price of USD1300 is $200 more than B&H's price for the CV 10mm f/5.6), I think they might also have felt obliged to match the speed of their popular 35/1.2.

Feb 26, 2017 at 06:24 PM

rscheffler
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

There are a few images where you can compare wide open to slightly stopped down and it definitely sharpens up and increases in contrast somewhat. Is it Zeiss-like contrast? Probably not. My feeling is the 40 is pretty faithful to the Voigtlander tendency towards the middle ground in respect to overall contrast and punch.

Difficult to say without seeing more but it seems background smoothness is better than foreground smoothness. 'Bokeh fringing' is also evident. In the images of the Voigtlander super-wide lenses on the counter-top, the out of focus back lens shows what seems to be tangential and sagittal divergence. Though the back lens is out of focus, the 'SAMPLE' sticker is clearly legible with a big halo around it. Meanwhile the engraved numbers and OOF specular highlights in the front OOF lens reveal really hard-edged circles... That said, it's not uncommon for a lens to render more smoothly in the back or front and be harsher on the opposite side. Just something to keep in mind.

Feb 26, 2017 at 07:00 PM

arduluth
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

From everything I've read, the VM 35/1.4 and 40/1.4 already work pretty well on the A7, considering how they perform on film and Leica digital. Indeed, the thicker filter stack on the A7 series seem to compensate for the field curvature, providing better corner sharpness than on Leica. The same issues seem to exist on film as well as on the A7, like the mid field dip.

This makes me really curious how the 35mm f/1.4 will perform on the A7, how different it will perform compared to the VM.

I've never used the 35mm f/1.4 VM, but I quite liked the 40mm f/1.4 VM. First lens I felt just might be too small for me. I wasn't a big fan of the focus tab, but the new E mount version looks a lot nicer to use.

Feb 26, 2017 at 10:16 PM

Juha Kannisto
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

genji wrote:
Exactly. I would have preferred for the reasons you suggest but also because it would have been a little smaller. In addition to bragging rights (first 40mm f/1.2 lens) and high price tag (suggested price of USD1300 is $200 more than B&H's price for the CV 10mm f/5.6), I think they might also have felt obliged to match the speed of their popular 35/1.2.

Thanks guys

If the suggested price "below 150K yen" mentioned in dc.watch.impress article refers to Japan MRSP as I guess it would if Cosina stated that price, it would still be slightly cheaper than CV 10/5.6 E-mount in Japan (with MRSP at 155K yen). The 10mm E-mount was sold at 133K at launch and now at 130K in major camera stores in Tokyo like Map Camera and Fujiya Camera. So I'm hoping that the 40/1.2 would have 130K yen or lower street price at launch... U.S. prices for CV 10/5.6 E-mount were always substantially cheaper than Japan prices for some reason though so don't know how that would translate to U.S. pricing this time around.

I also think that they probably need something like f1.2 to be able to justify the price at that level, considering that the M-mount 40/1.4 sells for about 36K yen in the same stores. Then again, the 35/1.7 Ultron (VM) was 103K at launch and now at 92K for the black version, so something based on that in E-mount could have also been priced in the same ballpark.

In any case, I'm looking forward to this new 40/1.2.

Feb 27, 2017 at 07:06 AM

jhinkey
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Though I'm encouraged by the 40/1.2 concept, I just hope that Voigtlander actually delivers a lens that's sharp enough at 42.5MP (especially stopped down across the entire frame).

The 40/1.4 MC VM was not bad, but it wasn't blazingly sharp stopped down (I only sold it because of the weight, focusing mechanics, and not the greatest flare resistance).

The 15/4.5-III is also just OK at 42.5MP (center pretty good, corners not so much . . .).

My 180/4 APO is damn good for contrast and across the frame uniformity, but is right on the edge of 42.5MP sharpness (i.e., it's not quite there to get all you can out of the sensor).

Here's hoping they do a great job with this lens.

Feb 27, 2017 at 11:42 AM

Makten
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

jhinkey wrote:
Though I'm encouraged by the 40/1.2 concept, I just hope that Voigtlander actually delivers a lens that's sharp enough at 42.5MP (especially stopped down across the entire frame).

The 40/1.4 MC VM was not bad, but it wasn't blazingly sharp stopped down (I only sold it because of the weight, focusing mechanics, and not the greatest flare resistance).

The 15/4.5-III is also just OK at 42.5MP (center pretty good, corners not so much . . .).

My 180/4 APO is damn good for contrast and across the frame uniformity, but is right on the edge of 42.5MP sharpness (i.e., it's not...Show more →

I think you have way too high expectations. Firstly, the very fastest lenses are seldom sharp to the corners when stopped down. Secondly, the 40/1.2 is kind of tiny for the speed and focal length, so I'd be very surprised if all aberrations are under control. I expect poor counterlight properties (flare, low contrast), distortion and so-so corner sharpness.

My hope is that it's optimized for wide open performance. If I want sharpness stopped down, there are other lenses that works fine.

--------

I had the 40/1.4 for a week or so, and while sharpness was really good even wide open (much better than the 35/1.4), I couldn't live with the huge midzone dip. Otherwise I liked it a lot.

Feb 27, 2017 at 12:08 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Makten wrote:
I think you have way too high expectations. Firstly, the very fastest lenses are seldom sharp to the corners when stopped down. Secondly, the 40/1.2 is kind of tiny for the speed and focal length, so I'd be very surprised if all aberrations are under control. I expect poor counterlight properties (flare, low contrast), distortion and so-so corner sharpness.

My hope is that it's optimized for wide open performance. If I want sharpness stopped down, there are other lenses that works fine.

--------

I had the 40/1.4 for a week or so, and while sharpness was really good even wide...Show more →

I think that all makes sense, but what I do want in a very fast lens as central in importance is good bokeh. That, IMO, is certainly a problem with the CV 40 f/1.4 and so far I have not been impressed with the bokeh from the 40 f/1.2 either. If it is reasonably sharp in the centre into the rule of thirds area and has nice bokeh wide open, then it will definitely be of interest to me, but without those qualities (and I am not convinced yet) I am not that interested.

Feb 27, 2017 at 12:39 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Although it's exciting to see new CV natives, there is nothing out there that beats the ZM 35/1.4 on the A7RII in terms of contrast/resolution, aberration control, sunstar and flare resistance. Granted, it's bigger and more expensive than the new offerings. I was really hoping for a native and optimized CV 35/1.7 to better compete with the ZM.

I'm not sure about copy variation but my ZM 35/1.4 copy is very sharp from wide open in the center/mid and throughout the frame when adding a PCX 5m lens in front on it. With the front-lens, its field curvature becomes negligible and it becomes optimal all the way to the corners at f/4. (Without the front-lens it's optimal at f/6.3 and one still needs to make sure to focus towards the mid-field)

Having a f/1.2 aperture is indeed exciting but if it does not deliver in terms of resolution and LoCA control, I'm not sure it's something I personally desire.

I'm very interested in the new CV 60/2 Macro APO. The samples I've seen look terrific.

Feb 27, 2017 at 12:53 PM

arduluth
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Makten wrote:
I had the 40/1.4 for a week or so, and while sharpness was really good even wide open (much better than the 35/1.4), I couldn't live with the huge midzone dip. Otherwise I liked it a lot.

Same here. Really surprised me how sharp and clean it was wide open, at least in the center. But there's enough of a midzone dip at f/8 that I'm not sure it'd ever cut it for landscape.

Feb 27, 2017 at 01:07 PM

jhinkey
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

--------

I had the 40/1.4 for a week or so, and while sharpness was really good even wide...Show more →

I think expectations will go hand-in-hand with the price of the lens that Voigtlander puts on it.

I hope they don't pull a Loxia 35/2 type of thing where the optical performance is way below par for the Zeiss name and price of the lens.

Feb 27, 2017 at 01:11 PM

GMPhotography
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

I'm very interested in the 65 as well. Having the ZM 35 than 65 and 135 for landscape would be pretty darn nice. Assuming we get a great 135 in the mix. Right now a ZM 85 which I could go to 65 for it. Have to test this 65. Since I don't have a 50 either this may make up for it. Some options

Fred Miranda wrote:
Although it's exciting to see new CV natives, there is nothing out there that beats the ZM 35/1.4 on the A7RII in terms of contrast/resolution, aberration control, sunstar and flare resistance. Granted, it's bigger and more expensive than the new offerings. I was really hoping for a native and optimized CV 35/1.7 to better compete with the ZM.

I'm not sure about copy variation but my ZM 35/1.4 copy is very sharp from wide open in the center/mid and throughout the frame when adding a PCX 5m lens in front on it. With the front-lens, its field curvature becomes negligible...Show more →

Feb 27, 2017 at 01:47 PM

virtualrain
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Seems like SAR has pricing...

MACRO APO-LANTHAR 65mm F2 Aspherical E-mount: It is scheduled to be released in 2017, and the target price is under 150,000 yen (under $1,300).

NOKTON 40mm F1.2 Aspherical E-mount: It aims to release this year under 150,000 yen (under $1,300).

NOKTON classic 35mm F1.4 E-mount: The assumed price range would be “VM mounted version and a little something extra”, and it will be less than 100,000 yen (under $900). It aims to be released in 2017.

Source: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com

Feb 27, 2017 at 02:03 PM

ISO1600
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Based on the limited info for the 35, and the "2017" estimate, I'm not optimistic we'll see it anytime soon...

(thinking about when the 65/2 was first shown)

Feb 27, 2017 at 03:32 PM

Makten
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Steve Spencer wrote:
I think that all makes sense, but what I do want in a very fast lens as central in importance is good bokeh. That, IMO, is certainly a problem with the CV 40 f/1.4 and so far I have not been impressed with the bokeh from the 40 f/1.2 either. If it is reasonably sharp in the centre into the rule of thirds area and has nice bokeh wide open, then it will definitely be of interest to me, but without those qualities (and I am not convinced yet) I am not that interested.

From the very few available samples; what is it that you don't like about the bokeh? Onion rings for sure, but they are there in most aspherical designs, and they don't show all the time.
I think the bokeh looks terrific, but I'm a bit worried that it will look like crap once focusing at ~3-5 meters or so. Which is where I'm interested in bokeh. For closer range, I don't care at all.

In fact, I like a bit of chaos then.

------

On the 40/1.4 Classic:

arduluth wrote:
Same here. Really surprised me how sharp and clean it was wide open, at least in the center. But there's enough of a midzone dip at f/8 that I'm not sure it'd ever cut it for landscape.

Yeah, the 40/1.4 is one of a few "Zeissy" Voigtländers. There is a bit of veiling flare wide open, but just as with the Sonnar 50/1.5 there is still great colors and pop. I even found the bokeh quite alright compared to the competition (which does not include huge lenses).

jhinkey wrote:
I think expectations will go hand-in-hand with the price of the lens that Voigtlander puts on it.

I hope they don't pull a Loxia 35/2 type of thing where the optical performance is way below par for the Zeiss name and price of the lens.

I happen to like the Loxia and I think it's worth its price. My only gripe with it is that the bokeh can be everything from wonderful to disastrous, depending on focusing distance and distance to background. Mind you, it's a "classic" design and I'd compare it to the non-aspherical Leica 35 Summicrons.

Feb 27, 2017 at 03:49 PM

serhan_
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

More samples:
https://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/voigtlander-nokton-40-mm-f12-toma-de-contacto/

https://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/voigtlander-macro-apo-lanthar-65-mm-f2-toma-de-contacto-ii/

Feb 28, 2017 at 10:55 PM

seanj
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

The 35/1.4 is getting no love from the sample sites. Hmph!

Mar 01, 2017 at 07:31 AM

Javier Munoz
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

serhan_ wrote:
More samples:
https://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/voigtlander-nokton-40-mm-f12-toma-de-contacto/

https://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/voigtlander-macro-apo-lanthar-65-mm-f2-toma-de-contacto-ii/

Let me know if you need translations.
One of the things they mention is that the 40mm has a pull-declicking mechanism for continuous aperture control.

Mar 01, 2017 at 08:02 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

seanj wrote:
The 35/1.4 is getting no love from the sample sites. Hmph!

There were no demo units available for 35/1.4 yet so nobody could test.

Mar 01, 2017 at 08:27 AM

hiepphotog
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Does anyone here wish that 60 Macro can do 1:1 instead of stopping at 1:2? I know it's faster than most macros, but it's neither here nor there, especially given the size.

Mar 01, 2017 at 10:36 AM

nampramos
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Voigtlander E-mount 35mm 1.4, 40mm 1.2, 65mm f2 in Development

Yes, that kind of sucks. I will stick to the wonderful 90G. Even though it's one stop slower, its longer and wonderful for portraits WO and does great closed down for macro and dof.

Mar 01, 2017 at 10:40 AM

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