I have the hawk v3 adapter, and it doesn't have enough distance in it to allow infinity to be reached when the filters are installed.
Version 5 may be different though.
I will report as soon as I get mine (v5).
0.3mm could be all the ZM 35 needs to achieve infinity with some of the filters.
Adjusting the Zeiss ZM lenses internally is quite easy.
We are still waiting for your step-by-step video.
One good thing about using TAP and adjusting the ZM lenses internally to reach infinity with the filters installed, if you want to remove the filters and shoot without them, since the Zeiss ZM lenses will then focus beyond infinity, TAP helps by its ability to regain close focus distancing with them.
Great point. I do use this lens on TAP when not shooting landscapes and adjusting the lens to use the filter could be the best approach. Would the internal adjustment influence how the lens work with regular adapters when shooting at infinity? I would think the lens would focus beyond infinity at the infinity hard stop but would not no problem reaching infinity by focusing closer.
Here is a link to a quick YouTube video showing very quickly how one disassembles the Zeiss ZM lenses:
I used a Zeiss 18mm ZM in the video, and you can briefly see the custom 58mm to 55mm chrome step down I'm using to hold the 0.5mm Proxar lens in place
I used a camera spanner to loosen the rear retaining nut, then unscrew it off. Once off, the front of the lens pulls outward exposing the internal brass shims.
One either adds or removes these shins to calibrate the lens for infinity.
Most Zeiss ZM lenses have this type of design. I have personally opened up the 85mm f4, 35mm f1.4, 28mm f2.8, 25mm f2.8 and 18mm f4 with this method. Some have slightly different designs, but essentially they all are very similar in how one gets inside them.
The exception is the Zeiss 85mm ZM f2 Sonnar, which I have not been able to figure out how it opens.
Apologies I couldn't do a more elaborate video at the moment, I may have a better opportunity to do a longer one with more in depth details of how each lens is opened over Christmas break. But hopefully you guys now have an idea how to open ZM lenses better.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I will report as soon as I get mine (v5).
0.3mm could be all the ZM 35 needs to achieve infinity with some of the filters.
We are still waiting for your step-by-step video.
Great point. I do use this lens on TAP when not shooting landscapes and adjusting the lens to use the filter could be the best approach. Would the internal adjustment influence how the lens work with regular adapters when shooting at infinity? I would think the lens would focus beyond infinity at the infinity hard stop but would not no problem reaching infinity by focusing closer.
candreyo wrote:
Here is a link to a quick YouTube video showing very quickly how one disassembles the Zeiss ZM lenses:
I used a Zeiss 18mm ZM in the video, and you can briefly see the custom 58mm to 55mm chrome step down I'm using to hold the 0.5mm Proxar lens in place
I used a camera spanner to loosen the rear retaining nut, then unscrew it off. Once off, the front of the lens pulls outward exposing the internal brass shims.
One either adds or removes these shins to calibrate the lens for infinity.
Most Zeiss ZM lenses have this type of design. I have personally opened up the 85mm f4, 35mm f1.4, 28mm f2.8, 25mm f2.8 and 18mm f4 with this method. Some have slightly different designs, but essentially they all are very similar in how one gets inside them.
The exception is the Zeiss 85mm ZM f2 Sonnar, which I have not been able to figure out how it opens.
Apologies I couldn't do a more elaborate video at the moment, I may have a better opportunity to do a longer one with more in depth details of how each lens is opened over Christmas break. But hopefully you guys now have an idea how to open ZM lenses better.
The 35mm I think needed two retaining rings removed, I can't remember for sure. But once they were removed, part of the lens separated from the body exposing the shims.
Fred Miranda wrote:
So basically removing one of the internal shims is all that it takes in the case of the ZM 35?
The 35mm I think needed two retaining rings removed, I can't remember for sure. But once they were removed, part of the lens separated from the body exposing the shims.
The beauty is that you can always put them back!
It would work great with TAP for close to mid distances and with the Hawks for landscape stuff since you can adjust the adapter to the new infinity hard stop. (just for convenience)
But once they were removed, part of the lens separated from the body exposing the shims.
Can you explain this again. I am not sure I followed.
Sure, with the 35mm lens, I just re-examined it and to get the lens open, you need to unscrew the bayonet mount from the lens first. There are 4 retaining screws holding it on.
Once that is off, you'll see a retaining ring just beyond the diameter of the part that engages rangefinder focus. There are two notches on the retaining ring for a camera spanner to fit into. By unscrewing this retainer ring, I believe a portion of the rear lens set comes out very neatly in small block. It just pulls out if I remember correctly once the retaining ring is off.
Once the lens block has been removed, you will see a few brass rings inside the lens cavity, these are the rings that need to be removed or added to adjust the lens for infinity.
I opened and calibrated the Zeiss lens more then a year ago, so this is how to do it to the best of my memory.
The one thing to be careful of with the 35mm Distagon is, once you remove the rear lens block, avoid getting any dust in the cavity of the remainder of the lens. I quickly took out the rings I needed to calibrate it back then, then placed the lens block inside the rear of the lens soon after. When I removed the rear lens block, I immediately wrapped it in a clean lens microfibres cloth to avoid getting any stray dust on it.
Worse thing that can happen is, if you do get dust, use an air blower made for camera equipment to just blow the dust away very lightly.
I know this sounds a bit scary, but it's rather simple and totally reversible. The only tool you need is a screwdriver to remove the bayonet screws, and a adjustable camera spanner to loosen and unscrew the retaining ring. After that, simply lift the rear lens block away, remove the shim(s), reinsert the block, then screw it all back together.
Depending on what strength correction lens is used, will probably have an affect on how many brass rings need to be removed. The stronger the correction lens, the more brass shims that need to be removed to bring the lens back into achievable infinite focus.
I then place the unused brass shims in a spare lens filter box for safe keeping.
Any questions at all, feel free to ask and I'll try and help anyone that wishes to go down the route of removing shims from their Zeiss ZM lenses as best I can 😇
Fred Miranda wrote:
The beauty is that you can always put them back!
It would work great with TAP for close to mid distances and with the Hawks for landscape stuff since you can adjust the adapter to the new infinity hard stop.
Can you explain this again. I am not sure I followed.
I should add, the 35mm Distagon process I explained above, is unique to that lens.
The Zeiss 25mm and 28mm ZM lenses are a bit easier, and more like the video I posted showing the 18mm Distagon.
These lenses have the retaining ring inside the rangefinder focus ring, and as such, don't need their bayonets removed. One simply unscrews the retaining ring, then the whole lens block can be pulled out from the focusing helicoid part, separating the two pieces. You will then see brass shims in generally the same locations as shown on the video.
candreyo wrote:
I should add, the 35mm Distagon process I explained above, is unique to that lens.
The Zeiss 25mm and 28mm ZM lenses are a bit easier, and more like the video I posted showing the 18mm Distagon.
These lenses have the retaining ring inside the rangefinder focus ring, and as such, don't need their bayonets removed. One simply unscrews the retaining ring, then the whole lens block can be pulled out from the focusing helicoid part, separating the two pieces. You will then see brass shims in generally the same locations as shown on the video.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. It seems that the main difference with the ZM 35 is that you need to unscrew the bayonet mount first.
However, I can see the two notches on the retaining ring even without removing the mount but as you wrote, the mount has to be removed first for full access.
I do believe you still need to remove the retaining ring, but it's inaccessible until the mount is removed first. The retaining ring for the ZM 35mm is hidden under the rear bayonet, where with other ZM's I have they are exposed on the rear of the lens more accessibly.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. It seems that the main difference with the ZM 35 is that you need to unscrew the bayonet mount first.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Are the Kolari colors issues related to color cast (temp/tint) or individual color changes?
If the later, a simple profile using X‑Rite ColorChecker Passport could fix it.
It really depends on how many m-mount lenses one would want to adapt. For those with many wide and ultra-wide M mount lenses, that could be the best approach.
For me, the ZM 35 is my only wide m-mount lens. I do see an issue with bokeh towards the corners at mid-distance using wide apertures. A simple filter combined with the right adapter (or adjusting the lens itself) could fix this. For landscapes, I would not worry about it since after f/6.3 FC is no longer an issue and the lens is sharp edge to edge with the stock A7RII....Show more →
Correct, some versions of Kolari thin filters slightly change colour. My v.1 filter (original, uncoated) simply required AWB edit in camera menu to A-B: A1 / G-M: 0
I modded my A7R the first week Kolari offered their thin filter conversion for this very reason; few RF lenses, specifically SEM21 and Lux 50. Now days Sony A7 series shooters have more choices when it comes to smaller and lighter lenses. Loxia series offers enough options to forget the mods altogether. I ended up selling SEM21 and dedicating modded A7R to ZM35, which is my single lens greatly benefitting from thinner sensor stack. IMO, for those who have only 1-2 RF lenses no wider than 35mm and want to get the best out of them on A7 series I would recommend A7RM2 as more forgiving in the A7 series. For wide angle RF lenses, please keep in mind that Kolari mod removes/reduces layers in optical path where Front-End Filters do the opposite.
JaKo wrote:
Correct, some versions of Kolari thin filters slightly change colour. My v.1 filter (original, uncoated) simply required AWB edit in camera menu to A-B: A1 / G-M: 0
I modded my A7R the first week Kolari offered their thin filter conversion for this very reason; few RF lenses, specifically SEM21 and Lux 50. Now days Sony A7 series shooters have more choices when it comes to smaller and lighter lenses. Loxia series offers enough options to forget the mods altogether. I ended up selling SEM21 and dedicating modded A7R to ZM35, which is my single lens greatly benefitting from thinner sensor stack. IMO, for those who have only 1-2 RF lenses no wider than 35mm and want to get the best out of them on A7 series I would recommend A7RM2 as more forgiving in the A7 series. For wide angle RF lenses, please keep in mind that Kolari mod removes/reduces layers in optical path where Front-End Filters do the opposite. ...Show more →
Kolari images need changes in temperature, tint at around +20, + 35 respectively AND changes in individual colors as well. The latter could be solved by using a custom profile, which is easy to do with X-rite passport)
That same blog shows that the Kolari mod improves smearing towards the edges but does not completely fixes it. (when using the same lens on a Leica body)
candreyo wrote:
I do believe you still need to remove the retaining ring, but it's inaccessible until the mount is removed first. The retaining ring for the ZM 35mm is hidden under the rear bayonet, where with other ZM's I have they are exposed on the rear of the lens more accessibly.
Thanks for your help!
I will wait for my Hawks v5 to arrive tomorrow and decide if adjusting the lens is the way to go. I have 2 filters right now (Minolta and Nikon) and the Nikon lets me shoot at around 5 feet distance using a standard adapter. I'm curious to see if the Hawks let's me reach infinity with this filter.
Are you using the Nikon No.0 with the ZM35/1.4 ?. According to HaruhikoT, this lens requires, in theory, a much weaker filter. If you're able to reach only 1.5m. with the Nikon filter, I guess that you'd need to move back the infinity mark 0.7-0.9mm. on the Hawks adapter. It seems doubtful that it allows so much tunning, but hopefully the dilemma will be solved tomorrow.
BTW the thread starter, HaruhikoT, after opening this can of worms, seems to have lost all interest on the matter..
That's okay, I for one am very interested in this topic, to the point I registered with FM Forums soley to contribute to this thread 😀
I'm grateful the OP stated this thread, because with out him, I probably would of went on using less then desired performance on the ZM lenses I own, which would mean they would get used less and less, and ultimately could of gotten sold.
So, thank you to the OP for starting this thread.
I ultimately have achieved what I set out to do, which was find which filters worked for my Zeiss ZM wide angle lenses.
I'm very interested if the correction lenses help other lenses like Voigtlander and Leica wide angles.
artur5 wrote:
Are you using the Nikon No.0 with the ZM35/1.4 ?. According to HaruhikoT, this lens requires, in theory, a much weaker filter. If you're able to reach only 1.5m. with the Nikon filter, I guess that you'd need to move back the infinity mark 0.7-0.9mm. on the Hawks adapter. It seems doubtful that it allows so much tunning, but hopefully the dilemma will be solved tomorrow.
BTW the thread starter, HaruhikoT, after opening this can of worms, seems to have lost all interest on the matter..
artur5 wrote:
Are you using the Nikon No.0 with the ZM35/1.4 ?. According to HaruhikoT, this lens requires, in theory, a much weaker filter. If you're able to reach only 1.5m. with the Nikon filter, I guess that you'd need to move back the infinity mark 0.7-0.9mm. on the Hawks adapter. It seems doubtful that it allows so much tunning, but hopefully the dilemma will be solved tomorrow.
@HaruhikoT models shows that a meniscus 1.75m lens could be optimal for the ZM 35/1.4.
The Nikon No. 0 is @1.4m (0.7 ptr), which is not that far and could be the best option as far as size and strength. (it's also multi-coated)
Yes, we will see tomorrow if the Hawks help (If I can focus at 2.5 or 3m I'm happy). I've seen great results towards the edges (as far as FC) with the even stronger Minolta No.0 filter. I'm more interested in improving FC at WO more than anything since this lens works great without any filters at f/6.3 and smaller at infinity distance.
BTW the thread starter, HaruhikoT, after opening this can of worms, seems to have lost all interest on the matter..
Perhaps he is busy taking pictures with his new filters!
@BastianK is been a little quiet. Perhaps he discovered the magic formula and does not want to share with us!
Another problem: when I leave my day job it is already darkest night outside,
so comparing bokeh with the filters @~2m focus distance is very high on my priority list for the weekend.
I also try to be patient awaiting your test with the Hawks and prepare on figuring out how to get one without being ripped off...
Regarding multi coating: I checked work against bright light with Nikon No 0 and without, didn't notice a meaningful difference.
That being said, I think the Loxia 35 handles ghosts a little bit better.
Nowadays you are talking about ZM 1.4/35 which I didn't have, so personally I run out of things to say. But I still have much interest about this issue
And thanks to your dedicated promo, I've finally got my ZM 1.4/35 this week!
I did quick test with my front-end filters.
My Proxar 2m doesn't work well, as well as @candreyo@ reported. Currently I'm not sure why my previous simulation doesn't match actual results.
My 5m PCX (SLB-50-5000PM) improves field curvature. And the great news is, with 5m PCX and my cheap Pixco LM-NEX adapter, it can reach almost infinity (tested 30m+ @f1.4) without modification.
HaruhikoT wrote:
Hi @artur5@, @candreyo@@, Fred and Bastian,
Nowadays you are talking about ZM 1.4/35 which I didn't have, so personally I run out of things to say. But I still have much interest about this issue
And thanks to your dedicated promo, I've finally got my ZM 1.4/35 this week!
I did quick test with my front-end filters.
My Proxar 2m doesn't work well, as well as @candreyo@@ reported. Currently I'm not sure why my previous simulation doesn't match actual results.
My 5m PCX (SLB-50-5000PM) improves field curvature. And the great news is, with 5m PCX and my cheap Pixco LM-NEX adapter, it can reach almost infinity (tested 30m+ @f1.4@) without modification.
Wouldn't the The Nikon No. 0 is @1.4m be a good choice as well? I'm glad you have the 35/1.4ZM and a bunch of filters so we'll finally get to the bottom of this!.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I was checking color differences between stock and Kolari versions here: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=10808
Kolari images need changes in temperature, tint at around +20, + 35 respectively AND changes in individual colors as well. The latter could be solved by using a custom profile, which is easy to do with X-rite passport)
That same blog shows that the Kolari mod improves smearing towards the edges but does not completely fixes it. (when using the same lens on a Leica body)
Fred, I do recall reading Kasson's review and remember that no reviewer mentioned disabling lens coding on Leica cameras. That makes comparison with any other camera unequal as Leica applies processing to RAW images based on lens profiles. Also, Kasson is not the only one shooting Kolari finally modded cameras (his comment: "posts on a prototype of the Kolari Vision thin-stack sensor" ) and I don't see similar results with the same tested lenses on public forums.
We do have hundreds of images posted on FM with this lens on various Sony bodies; modded or not, and not many match Kasson's extreme outcome.
In any event, once again, photography is a process and experience showing our expressions. Gear is always in a way, images speak directly.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The Nikon No. 0 is @1.4m (0.7 ptr), which is not that far and could be the best option as far as size and strength. (it's also multi-coated)
Yes, we will see tomorrow if the Hawks help (If I can focus at 2.5 or 3m I'm happy). I've seen great results towards the edges (as far as FC) with the even stronger Minolta No.0 filter. I'm more interested in improving FC at WO more than anything since this lens works great without any filters at f/6.3 and smaller at infinity distance.
After doing some tests on the TAP adapter, I find in the parked infinity position, it really focuses past infinity by about .036" (.036" too thin). If the Hawks doesn't have this kind of compensation, try TAP "parked infinity" for greater range. . .
