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Archive 2016 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ

  
 
DavidBM
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p.44 #1 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Fred Miranda wrote:
Yeah, it's sad when it happens and the main reason I gave up on it. Too bad because it's a great idea that could be improved.


The eye AF with v3 and TAP is ***so*** much better that it’s worth giving it a go again with light vintage glass for wide to normal portraits..



Apr 26, 2019 at 01:35 AM
photomadnz
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p.44 #2 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


The only lens I have ever used is the ZM 35mm 1.4. Not a heavy lens by any means.. (@380 gm's). They just arent made to last clearly. I agree though, eye AF now is very very good.


DavidBM wrote:
The eye AF with v3 and TAP is ***so*** much better that it’s worth giving it a go again with light vintage glass for wide to normal portraits..





Apr 26, 2019 at 01:40 AM
DavidBM
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p.44 #3 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


photomadnz wrote:
The only lens I have ever used is the ZM 35mm 1.4. Not a heavy lens by any means.. (@380 gm's). They just arent made to last clearly. I agree though, eye AF now is very very good.




I wasn’t trying to blame the user! They specify a weight a bit above that. But I now use it only with even lighter glass. It needs a redesign for sure.



Apr 26, 2019 at 01:45 AM
fadeslayer
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p.44 #4 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


I always struggled to get used to TAP and I sold it months ago (I have only A7RII so not the ideal body vs newer ones). I will live with newer lenses without vintage heritage ;-)


Apr 26, 2019 at 01:47 AM
NateWeatherly
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p.44 #5 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


photomadnz wrote:
After my positive shoot, a couple of posts back, I decided to shoot some urban landscapes with the ZM 35 and the TAP.
I notice my TAP has developed the dreaded 'wobble'... Its become a tilt lens without me wanting it to be! The images I took are decidedly less sharp in the lower part of the image at the focal plane.
Came home and put a dumb adaptor on and everything is great again. This is the second TAP Ive had, the orginal one just stopped working. Time to move on from it.....


Did you double check that all the screws are good and tight? I noticed mine wobbling really bad and when I checked the screws one was missing from the back of the motor case. Replacing that took care of the wobble.



Apr 29, 2019 at 02:27 PM
Michael Gordon
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p.44 #6 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Fred Miranda wrote:
Yeah, it's sad when it happens and the main reason I gave up on it. Too bad because it's a great idea that could be improved.


Well that is sad. The company has had more than sufficient feedback to reengineer the adapter but has chosen to do nothing. I wonder if the Fotodiox Pronto is engineered any better mechanically? The firmware etc are clearly knock-offs but TAP is no paragon of virtue either. A quick search did not show reports of wobbles.



Apr 29, 2019 at 05:45 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #7 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Michael Gordon wrote:
Well that is sad. The company has had more than sufficient feedback to reengineer the adapter but has chosen to do nothing. I wonder if the Fotodiox Pronto is engineered any better mechanically? The firmware etc are clearly knock-offs but TAP is no paragon of virtue either. A quick search did not show reports of wobbles.


Unfortunately the Pronto copycat wobbles the exact same way since it copied the exact same flawed designed. I tried one and it wobbles the same way after a while...



Apr 29, 2019 at 06:02 PM
Michael Gordon
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p.44 #8 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Fred Miranda wrote:


Unfortunately the Pronto copycat wobbles the exact same way since it copied the exact same flawed designed. I tried one and it wobbles the same way after a while...



Bah, that is disappointing too. I'd say one extremely reliable definitive report now exists. Thanks for commenting.

I'd purchase a well engineered version in a heartbeat. The eye AF for humans and animals is excellent.




Apr 29, 2019 at 06:34 PM
Tirpitz666
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p.44 #9 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


I think that they were simply too optimistic about that 700gr limit that they've stated, at least considering how the device is engineered and apparently (shoddily at times) assembled.

I'm using mine since a year or so, I've used it with some pretty heavy lenses but always supporting them with my left hand, trying to never put any stress on the moving coil, and finally I've settled to small primes only, which at the end are the ones for which the TAP has been created for. That way, for now I'm not experiencing any wobble whatsoever, but of course I'm using it in a pretty "conservative" way..



Apr 30, 2019 at 10:19 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #10 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Tirpitz666 wrote:
I think that they were simply too optimistic about that 700gr limit that they've stated, at least considering how the device is engineered and apparently (shoddily at times) assembled.

I'm using mine since a year or so, I've used it with some pretty heavy lenses but always supporting them with my left hand, trying to never put any stress on the moving coil, and finally I've settled to small primes only, which at the end are the ones for which the TAP has been created for. That way, for now I'm not experiencing any wobble whatsoever, but of course I'm using
...Show more

Focus your TAP on something close (So it's a bit extended). Now, push the top of the adapter and see if it moves slightly inwards. If it moves even if a tiny bit, it's already wobbling.



Apr 30, 2019 at 10:35 AM
LBJ2
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p.44 #11 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Per Fred's instructions He showed me how to test for TAP wobble. But it my case so far it doesn't seem to wobble freely unless I force it. For this reason I suggest ( nothing scientific).

1. Don't use long heavy lenses (ever).This may cause the TAP joint to loosen and exacerbate the issue
2. Use with small primes
2. Hold the TAP base or camera body while shooting, do not hold the Lens as is typical
3. Take more than one photo of your subject and refocus different focal planes in between shots to guard agains potential focus shift. I don't need to do this often, but if I am worried about it this is what I do.

This seems to work for me. YMMV.



Apr 30, 2019 at 10:45 AM
Tirpitz666
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p.44 #12 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


I'll do some further testing with both the TAP and some cheap-ish dumb adapters that I have available to check whether, if not forced, there is actually something going on or not in terms of actual IQ degradation.

For sure I've quit from any experiment of having it try to focus my Contax 100-300 at infinity.. (even with pre-focus)



Apr 30, 2019 at 12:54 PM
vijaykr.p
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p.44 #13 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Hi all, I was using the techart pro adapter with new voigtlander 35mm f/1.7 and pentax-m 50mm f1.7 on Sony A7iii. With voigtlander it doesn't focus outside the center and with pentax it can even focus around the edges.

I doubt that the performance of the techart is dependent on the field curvature as voigtlander is known to have bad field curvature without the PCX filter on sony sensors. Can someone confirm?



Jul 10, 2019 at 11:50 AM
Aerocolor
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p.44 #14 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ



Hey folks. I had this reply typed up in response to the archived Fotodiox Pro PRONTO thread, but decided it was more applicable here in the FAQ thread, as it is more Techart Pro focused than PRONTO.
Therefore, if looking for the context for the quotes, please see this thread instead:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1504638/0


------------------------


techartpro wrote:
Thats a fake copy of our patented design. This company is famous for copying people's products without licensing.


d-intrigue wrote:
In what countries is it patented?


Buffalonian wrote:
Fake copy or not - it looks more refined like only the Chinese can do in manufacturing than your design. What's the patent number, btw?




Patent infringement accusations are serious business, and since I prefer to be an informed consumer and these claims from Techart remained unsubstantiated, I have spent some time researching this subject, and decided to share my findings. As far as I can tell, I don't believe anyone else has found these Chinese publications or made this connection - and I think it might be good to clarify this actual status in the Techart PRO FAQ as well.
(Note: I am not a lawyer, so do not take anything below as legal advice. I'm just a guy with a few patents under his belt, who has seen a bit of the process from personal experience. The BEST outcome here would be if both Techart AND Fotodiox stepped in and cleared the air.)


Long story short:
I believe I have found the mysterious "Techart Pro patent"... and it's not actually a patent, only a patent application


The initial publication is CN105785692A, a patent application filed in China on 2016-05-19 and published on 2016-07-20.
There is a priority date of 2016-03-09 for a separate application, CN201620181519, but I can't find a copy of this one online.
A worldwide patent application was filed on 2016-05-27, and published on 2017-09-14, with the application number of WO2017152510A1.

Note those dates... Both the application filing date (2016-05-19) as well as the priority date (2016-03-09) are several months after the adapter was shown to the world and described in great functional detail, which was at least as early as 2016-01-07. I'm not familiar with Chinese patent laws, but at least in the USA with the first-to-file patent system, this would be quite problematic, and could quite negatively impact your ability to obtain a patent, if not prevent it entirely.


Digging deeper, the inventor listed on the Chinese patent application is "梁建平", which Google translates as "Liang Jianping". Googling this name, I found that the developer "JianPing Liang" is the name associated with the "TECHART Upgrade" utility in the Google Play Store, so we can reasonably assume that the Chinese patent application is from the person or entity that we here would refer to as "TECHART". The email address listed in the Google Play Store also matches that for the contact information provided for "Tiangong electronic technology co., LTD", the company behind the techart.net.cn website. The iOS App Store's version of the app is credited to "WeiLin Liang", and a LinkedIn profile for this undergrad research assistant confirms this project was worked on from Sept 2013 through Aug 2016, for Nitian Technology Inc.

Beyond techart.net.cn and techartpro.com, there is yet a third Techart website: techart-logic.com. This is the website listed as the contact page for the Google Play Store app. The banner at the bottom lists the company name as Guangzhou NITIAN Electronic Technology Co., Ltd. ("NITIAN Corp" is also referenced on the sticker on the LM-EA7, and is also referenced on a techart.net.cn page).

In the USA, they appear to be going under the company name "TECHART", however it looks as though a US trademark has not been registered, nor has one for "NITIAN". (There is one "Techart" listed that produces photographic products, however it appears to be a different and much larger company. Also that trademark was filed in March of 2016, long after our "Techart" was selling other adapter products in the USA.)



So where does this leave us?

Some simple statements:
1) The Techart PRO website does not mention a patent holding in any way, nor does the LM-EA7 adapter labeling.
2) From public records, we can see that a pair of patent applications, Chinese and Worldwide, have been filled, which we can reasonably attribute to the person/group/company we know as "TECHART".
3) A patent application does not mean a product, design, or concept is patented, nor does it mean that the concept is even patentable. A patent application could be invalidated by the finding of prior art, for example, or by early disclosure and publication of the concept before seeking patent protection. It could also not be deemed novel, unique, or specific enough to patent. There are NO GUARANTEES that a patent will be granted for a given application.
4) If it is true that "TECHART" does not actually hold a patent, then it is illegal for them to claim their product is patented in the US, and doing so could subject them to fines. ("Patent Pending" would be appropriate and encouraged, but "Patented" is a very different legal status.)
5) In light of #4, it is probably misleading for the Techart Pro FAQ on the FM forum here to repeat Techart's quote that "the Fotodiox Pro Pronto is an unlicensed fake of Techart's patented design", and leaving it is potentially also damaging for Techart (who endorse and link to it from their website, giving it authenticity).


Note that I'm not at all defending Fotodiox here, as the Pro PRONTO bears all the markings of a shameless knockoff clone. But it's a very important distinction that the Techart Pro itself isn't actually "Patented", as that status is what allows or prohibits OTHER companies (including but not limited to Fotodiox) from producing LEGAL autofocus adapters of the same or alternate designs for our cameras. While Techart claims to be the victim here, (and they likely are), falsely claiming a patent status to stifle competition isn't legal either... or ethical.


Please feel free to correct me if I have made a mistake or omission anywhere above...



References:

Techart PRO product website:
http://techartpro.com/product/techart-pro-leica-m-sony-e-autofocus-adapter/

2016-07-20 Chinese patent application, with diagram / illustration matching the Techart PRO & Fotodiox Pro PRONTO design:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/98/88/ee/c22f4cbe4bc5db/CN105785692A.pdf

2016-05-27 Worldwide patent application:
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017152510A1/en

2016-01-07 announcement of Techart PRO on Sony Alpha Rumors:
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/hot-worlds-first-techart-m-mount-to-e-mount-autofocus-adapter/

Chinese forum thread discussing TAP development & beta testing (Archived, and with English translation, 70+ pages before it was removed):
https://web.archive.org/web/20160905094900 /http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1535183-1-1-2.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20160109063837%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fforum.xitek.com%2Fthread-1535183-1-1-2.html

TECHART Upgrade utility on the Google Play Store & Apple App Store:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.techart.administrator.techart_update&hl=en_US
https://apps.apple.com/app/id972383385#

LinkedIn profile with TECHART Update app development timeframe listed:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-leung

Techart.net.cn website - contact info:
http://en.techart.net.cn/contact.html

US Code on false patent marking:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/292

Trademark searches for "Techart":
https://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-search.aspx?tn=techart
https://trademarks.justia.com/search?q=techart
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov (use Basic word Mark Search)

Likely unrelated "Techart" trademark:
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:x61gm4.2.3

Techart's endorsement of the FredMiranda forum FAQ:
http://techartpro.com/downloads-2/

An early publication & description of the Fotodiox Pro Pronto adapter:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotodiox/36517110064



Oct 13, 2019 at 08:21 PM
Jonathan F
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p.44 #15 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


As much as I don't like supporting a company that rips off another company's design, Fotodiox does offer a 2 year warranty on their products in the US. Techart has non-existent customer service.


Oct 13, 2019 at 09:13 PM
genji
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p.44 #16 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Aerocolor wrote:
Hey folks. I had this reply typed up in response to the archived Fotodiox Pro PRONTO thread, but decided it was more applicable here in the FAQ thread, as it is more Techart Pro focused than PRONTO.
Therefore, if looking for the context for the quotes, please see this thread instead:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1504638/0


------------------------





Patent infringement accusations are serious business, and since I prefer to be an informed consumer and these claims from Techart remained unsubstantiated, I have spent some time researching this subject, and decided to share my findings. As far as I can tell, I don't believe anyone else has found these
...Show more

Please accept my sincere thanks for your efforts. I’ve updated the FAQ accordingly.



Oct 13, 2019 at 09:37 PM
genji
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p.44 #17 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


Jonathan F wrote:
As much as I don't like supporting a company that rips off another company's design, Fotodiox does offer a 2 year warranty on their products in the US. Techart has non-existent customer service.


Well, I’ve been extremely hostile to the Pronto but Aerocolor’s post has caused me to modify my position. I have three Techart Pro adapters. One has developed the wobble. Another no longer allows me to modify the default focal lengths via the Android LM-EA7-CONFIG app (the update appears to have worked but the current set of focal lengths remains unchanged). So that’s two useless TAPs out of three. They’re all out of warranty so it’s time to give the Pronto a try. I’ve added one to my B&H cart and will complete the purchase once they reopen after the Succos holiday,



Oct 13, 2019 at 11:38 PM
genji
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p.44 #18 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


I've placed my order for a Fotodiox PRONTO though it won't ship until next week and will take another week to get to Australia. I'll post a report on the Pronto ASAP after that. In the light of Aerocolor's information about the patent situation, I'm also strongly tempted to change the title of the thread to "Techart PRO and Fotodiox PRONTO FAQ".


Oct 15, 2019 at 10:16 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #19 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


genji wrote:
I've placed my order for a Fotodiox PRONTO though it won't ship until next week and will take another week to get to Australia. I'll post a report on the Pronto ASAP after that. In the light of Aerocolor's information about the patent situation, I'm also strongly tempted to change the title of the thread to "Techart PRO and Fotodiox PRONTO FAQ".


I've tried the Pronto and it is definitely a TechArt clone from the motor noise to the exact same firmware.



Oct 15, 2019 at 10:58 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.44 #20 · Techart PRO LM-EA7 FAQ


and it wobbles as well...


Oct 16, 2019 at 11:07 AM
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