p.18 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Oh man, every time you think this "what does crop factor really mean / relative perspective / equivalent focal lengths" argument is actually dead it reanimates and eats someone else's brain.
p.18 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
This. I see. Thanks Michael. I am thinking about it correctly (or we are both thinking about it incorrectly together
I was just typing without thinking. Lens focal length is fixed no matter at what format. Only when you need convert to 35mm format to give yourself some reference point about characteristic of lens. for small format, multiply bigger than 1 number, for example APS-C X1.5, for larger format, multiply smaller number: such as this case and Leica S X0.8, 645 X0.6 6X6 X0.5 etc....
Hope this clear.
Of course, don't forget format ratio, for example, preferring 4X3, will give you even more gain than 0.8 for DOF and pixel count but this should give you a nice starting point.
p.18 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Right. Thanks for answering this. I think I am not being articulate here. I totally understand the FL crop factor between different sensor sizes...just trying to understand ten DOF translation. And yes, asp-c lenses and all I got on FF and such. I saw a while ago someone adapter an Canon 85L to MF--gave some rediculous DOF, functioning as 50 f.9 or something in FF terms.
Anyway, I'll try one more. So, assuming the lenses are both in their native formats, the Fuji GF 110 f2 would be similar to a 90 (88 in FL) and 1.7? (DOF) on FF? I realize light gathering is the same. This is correct? ...Show more →
See the last page for the full list I posted, but:
Fuji GF 110mm f/2 ≈ FF 87mm f/1.6
Which is to say, using the Fuji GF 110/2 on the GFX camera will have the same diagonal field of view and DOF for a subject framed in the same way as a 87mm f/1.6 lens on a FF camera. The aspect ratios are different (FF is 3:2, GFX is 4:3), but in the grand scheme of things the diagonal works as a guide. I could calculate the equivalent FF lenses assuming you're cropping GFX to 3:2 *or* cropping FF to 4:3, depends on the aspect ratio you want to be using.
I've never understood what "light gathering" really means from a practical perspective, but I think the answer is yes. The somewhat better high ISO performance of the GFX sensor should make up for the slower lens, give or take.
p.18 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Lee Saxon wrote:
Oh man, every time you think this "what does crop factor really mean / relative perspective / equivalent focal lengths" argument is actually dead it reanimates and eats someone else's brain.
The misunderstanding about perspective distortion and focal lengths (in terms of mms, not field of view and distance to subject) is so common that I'm glad Jman13 brought it up.
Knowing what an equivalent lens on FF would be is helpful if you're considering this system and want to know what kind of field of view you'd be getting from the lens. For most of us, putting things in FF terms help visualize the kind of view a lens has.
p.18 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Anyway. This system is the first real exciting product for me, It will be a awesome platform for adapting lens. lots of long 35mm glass should be able used on this system.
For landscape, many people might prefering 2X3 format, the gain will be quite small in that case though.
p.18 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
arduluth wrote:
See the last page for the full list I posted, but:
Fuji GF 110mm f/2 ≈ FF 87mm f/1.6
Which is to say, using the Fuji GF 110/2 on the GFX camera will have the same diagonal field of view and DOF for a subject framed in the same way as a 87mm f/1.6 lens on a FF camera. The aspect ratios are different (FF is 3:2, GFX is 4:3), but in the grand scheme of things the diagonal works as a guide. I could calculate the equivalent FF lenses assuming you're cropping GFX to 3:2 *or* cropping FF to 4:3, depends on the aspect ratio you want to be using.
I've never understood what "light gathering" really means from a practical perspective, but I think the answer is yes. The somewhat better high ISO performance of the GFX sensor should make up for the slower lens, give or take. ...Show more →
Good--we are thinking the same. I follow you and that's how I was thinking about it. Thanks for the patience. I don't know what Jordan meant by perspective, but yeah.
It will be interesting to see what FF lenses can be used with full res on the new Fuji and with what degree of degradation--can't wait actually. It very much sounds like a 274 page FM testing thread
p.18 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Good--we are thinking the same. I follow you and that's how I was thinking about it. Thanks for the patience. I don't know what Jordan meant by perspective, but yeah.
It will be interesting to see what FF lenses can be used with full res on the new Fuji and with what degree of degradation--can't wait actually. It very much sounds like a 274 page FM testing thread
Yeah, definitely! Certainly some TS lenses around that should cover the sensor. I've seen folks using the Otus 55mm with a digital MF back, too.
p.18 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
speedgraphic wrote:
Then why aren't we all using micro 4/3rds? Why do I ALWAYS prefer images that I shoot with my Pentax 67 and 105/2.4 over images from my 58/1.4? Smaller format images lack dimensionality, the shorter lenses flatten out your subject in rendering. That's why I can't get down with anything sub 35mm.
It's just down to DOF; a 25mm f1.2 of m43 has the DOF and angle of view of a 50mm f2.4 FF lens.
Images taken from the same location will look the same on m43 1.2/25 as FF 2.4/50,
But 2.4 is a middle or the road aperture: your expectations for wide aperture "look" are set by say FF 1.4/50. And that would require a m43 25mm f 0.7 lens, which they don't have.
So yes they do look different: but only because rapt typically used apertures the FF has thinner DOF.
It's worth noting that if thinner DOF is what you want, the size advantage of m43 goes out the window: a full frame 50mm f 2.4 can be much smaller that a m43 25 1.2! M 43 plays to its strengths with long lenses where you get high pixel density, or with tiny slower primes and zooms.
p.18 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Very very interesting product. Might be going for this ASAP. Just thinking about all the adapting possibilities, Contax 645 Zeiss glass and all that...
p.18 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
zhangyue wrote:
Anyway. This system is the first real exciting product for me, It will be a awesome platform for adapting lens. lots of long 35mm glass should be able used on this system.
Some R lenses (e.g. 180 APO, 100 APO, 60 macro, 28 v2) have image circle that can cover this MF sensor.
p.18 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Help me out Jordan--this always confuses me the way people talk of this. From owning them, When I put a 85 1.4 on a crop camera, it acts like a 135 f2 on full frame. So what would that same 85 looks like on this MF Fuji crop?
The perspective on a 50mm on m4/3 is the same as a 100mm on FF. But for equivalent DOF, the lens would have to be 2 stops faster for the m4/3s to match the FF DOF.
So...a FF 100mm 2.8 looks (But does not have the same perspective?) as a 50 1.4 when mounted on m4/3s.
An FF 100mm f 2.8 looks exact,y the same (modulo lens aberrations) as an m43 50mm 1.4, assuming you shoot from the same location, which is what fixes perspective.
But you need to remember that the look is set by aperture equivalence throughout the range: so that m43 lens will look the same at f5.6, for example, as the FF one at f11...
p.18 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
DavidBM wrote:
An FF 100mm f 2.8 looks exact,y the same (modulo lens aberrations) as an m43 50mm 1.4, assuming you shoot from the same location, which is what fixes perspective.
But you need to remember that the look is set by aperture equivalence throughout the range: so that m43 lens will look the same at f5.6, for example, as the FF one at f11...
Yes, totally got this. A m4/3 50mm f2 shot WO would be mirrored by a 100 f2 stop down to f4 from the same location. I get this. I was just checking but the thread got confusing.
I am also curious to see what thickness the sensor stack is at...wonder if will screw up legacy glass with thickness like the a7r or if it be friendlier.
I do not believe that the Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 will cover the Leica S much less the new Fujifilm camera. The Leica R 28mm f2.8 Super Angulon PC (I am and will be using it on my A7r/A7rM v3/Cambo Actus system) will cover the Fujifilm camera and still allow for shift not only with my Actus set-up but also if the new Fujifilm camera will be able to be adapted to either the Cambo Actus or the Cambo Actus DB2 camera. In the case of the Leica R 28mm Super Angulon PC the lens or the camera can be shifted by as much as 11mm left and right. I believe there may be enough capability to shift the lens or the camera about 5mm left and right with the new Fujifilm camera.
p.18 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
MJKoski wrote:
Very very interesting product. Might be going for this ASAP. Just thinking about all the adapting possibilities, Contax 645 Zeiss glass and all that...
Canon TS-E with electronic adapters?
Didn't you just go from your Sony system to the Pentax system...now this?
p.18 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Yeah, I bought $6000 worth of Pentax gear and only working thing I have now is 100mm weather protected macro. My K-1 body is plagued by the same white dot issue D810 had (which comes with another nasty issue among the dots), 15-30 zoom was decentered waiting for service and 24-70 has horrible focus shift with bad corner performance.
On paper it was good, in practice it is not finished.
p.18 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Really interesting looking for a brand new system. Looks like they nailed the ergos on it.
That ain't cheap. Not saying it isn't worth it, but wow. I was hoping for a lower price point.
It really isn't a big move from FF, but a nice almost 4x on area from the apps-c. The proof will be in the pics.
I can't figure it out, but is it physics that makes the FF lenses the optimum when it comes to size and speed- or is it just that there have been more lenses and development for that size?
Aps-c lenses aren't that much smaller, and they and the 4/3 lenses usually don't gain the f stop needed to keep the DOF the same. 'Medium format' and I'm using that term loosely, are bigger lenses and don't keep up in the F-stop. This sensor is bigger than FF, but it isn't th jump to 6x7/8 that we got in film.
If you have to have th MPs, I guess it is the best way to go, but really, much past 20mp is wasted for most applications and pics.
Maybe I'll pick up a used one in 2020 with an adaptor for a tilt/shift lens. That might be interesting with that viewfinder.
p.18 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
naturephoto1 wrote:
I do not believe that the Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 will cover the Leica S much less the new Fujifilm camera. The Leica R 28mm f2.8 Super Angulon PC (I am and will be using it on my A7r/A7rM v3/Cambo Actus system) will cover the Fujifilm camera and still allow for shift not only with my Actus set-up but also if the new Fujifilm camera will be able to be adapted to either the Cambo Actus or the Cambo Actus DB2 camera. In the case of the Leica R 28mm Super Angulon PC the lens or the camera can be shifted by as much as 11mm left and right. I believe there may be enough capability to shift the lens or the camera about 5mm left and right with the new Fujifilm camera.
On the second page of the link I posted, there is a 28mm v2 image circle. It is not completely cover the S sensor. There is some vignetting at corner but is said to clear up at f8-11. I believe that many FF lenses can be use on this new Fuji camera, providing someone makes proper adapters.
