p.12 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
adamdewilde wrote:
I spend two separate days trying to see differences in these two bodies. In the end there are two difference. The Sony needed +5 to saturation and if I remember correctly it was consistently cooler with it's Auto WB setting and had a slightly different tint setting. Also needed +10 to contrast (but I'm going from memory now).
I think the contrast and the saturation were due to one of my 50APO lenses being slightly less saturated and contrasty than the other. This is something I've noticed while shooting the two lenses side by side on two M cameras. So in essence the colours from both cameras were almost imperceivable.
I've done this test twice now. On two not so similar days (light quality wise) and with two different friends. Both who believed that my SL would somehow come out on top.
In both these tests I also shot under and overexposed files and manipulated them with similar results. I would say human error created more differences then the cameras.
Both these tests were done before Leica updated the SL firmware. I have not done any testing since..
Had I done these tests before buying the SL, I most certainly would not have bought the SL despite the SLs ergonomics, I'm not a fan of the sensor one bit. MUCH prefer the M240/M240-P sensor and much much prefer the S-006 sensor. ...Show more →
I'm the opposite, sort of. I don't dislike any of the current Leica sensors or the one on my aging S2. And I prefer the colour coming out of any Leica sensor over the equivalent Sony. But I prefer the SL sensor to the M because with certain lenses (ie: Noctilux) there's way less purple fringing than on the M240. It also has marginally less noise and slightly better colour retention at higher ISO's. Other than that I shoot the M240 and SL side by side because they can be used together so easily. when I did some tests with the SL vs the XPro2 I also found it quite easy to get those two to match in processing. My Sony's have always given me trouble in matching other cameras.
This could be because I use Lightroom?? I know other processors do stuff differently.
p.12 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Actually, it isn't. Nuanced is a word that can have to do with subtle differences. However, going back to its Latin amd French roots, it has more to do with color shades. Highly nuanced means that there is a slight degree of color variation across the entire spectrum. It can also be applid musically, but I forget the particulars of that. But for our purposes, the highly nuanced behavior is referring to lenses.
Sensors = more drastic differences
Lenses = highly nuanced color
Face palms? Seriously? Is it really come to that?
And I am sure I can find a source for the color relationship with nuance. Shoot, its probably mentioned in the dictionary.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I believe that is what we call an oxymoron.
p.12 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Ok, let me address this, so we can get back on track since I've had a nice (6 hours) sleep and my morning coffee..
And apologies for somehow derailing this post... Picture below to make up for it
Gary - You are a gentleman and a scholar my friend. I will take you up on this raw offer ASAP. At the very least it couldn't hurt to learn together
TheEmrys - On page 11, I explained how even though I used the same model (50APO), I've noticed the highly nuanced differences between my two copies. As noted (pg11), one lens needs a +5 bump in saturation than the other. I've also noticed I need a +10 on the contrast (this was tested using same camera [m240] prior to the Sony/SL test). This one lens also tends to shift magentas into red. I think due in part to one lens having been sent in for the flare fix, while the other lens was not affected. But please don't get me starting on all that. As I already hate myself for sending in my first 50APO as it was never the same since.
joakim - You're a good guy and you meant well, but maybe you didn't get the memo last month. RAW is an acronym for Repair After Work. Meaning one no longer needs to know the basics of photography because they can fix it in RAW, or so I hear, but don't believe me since I'm a 14fps jpg shooter. Though nothing wrong with RAW, since I hear some fellow called Ansel Adams loved RAW and darkrooms (name of a computer program).
flash - I know what I don't like with Sony. It's something very particular. And I seen it in my SL files (as mentioned first firmware). And that is what prompted me to run tests. At the time I ran against my M240 and I couldn't get the colors to match. It was frustrating to say the least. But I also tested against the A7II, hence my claim. This BTW is not Sony bashing, because there are better photographers than me who do amazing work with Sony. As for the S-006 (S2) there is no better sensor that is commercially available than the one in that camera, IMHO. And also in my wife's opinion funnily enough (she loves the S-006+100S). Oh and also her makeup forum likes the S camera better then the other cameras I've used to shoot her. Since her friends say it's softer with nicer colours, but I believe it's a bokeh bias since none of those girls are actually photographers and all shoot with their iPhones from what I can tell. Because when I shoot her with a Bron Para and f/11 her friends think it's too edited and get upset because they think she used photoshop which is a faux pas on their forum (girls are weird).
Anyway, lets get this topic back on track. What do you guys think about the look of the camera? Will you be disappointed if it's a bloated X-T2. Would you prefer the old Fuji S body type? Would a RF type camera like the Xpro be cooler? Or do you think it should be a minimal design like the Leica T or Hassy X1D?
p.12 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
"Highly nuanced means that there is a slight degree..."
A "nuance" is something characterized by subtlety, almost the literal opposite of something that is "drastic." ;-)
Dan
TheEmrys wrote:
Actually, it isn't. Nuanced is a word that can have to do with subtle differences. However, going back to its Latin amd French roots, it has more to do with color shades. Highly nuanced means that there is a slight degree of color variation across the entire spectrum. It can also be applid musically, but I forget the particulars of that. But for our purposes, the highly nuanced behavior is referring to lenses.
Sensors = more drastic differences
Lenses = highly nuanced color
Face palms? Seriously? Is it really come to that?
And I am sure I can find a source for the color relationship with nuance. Shoot, its probably mentioned in the dictionary.
p.12 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
There are existing manufacturing options outside of Sony to Panasonic (for Fuji) through the joint venture I linked earlier: http://www.towerjazz.com/manufacturing.html
Regardless, a capital infusion to Tower Jazz would be required and publicly stated, otherwise you would end up with Leica "S" prices. Fuji just couldn't sell 1000 units like leica and call it a success. They need the economies of scale. Hasselblad is already wedded to Sony, as is Pentax, so Fuji would be the only customer if they went to Tower. In other words, no way it would happen.
Also, Japanese companies tend to buy Japanese sensors.
p.12 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I wonder why no China company has built a mirrorless M mount camera. I was thinking Hua Wei would be the first company to do it, but after getting in bed with Leica, I'm less convinced they will. I'm just seriously confused as to why it hasn't happened yet. So far it's been Japan and a few euro legacy companies.
Maybe we'll see a Xiaomi mirrorless M in a few years time. Since they've come a long way in a short period. Maybe Xiaomi or Hua Wei is who is making the camera Peter claims is coming. Apparently someone is making a new CCD M-mount camera. Though I'm not sure if it even exists or if he's trying some kind of scare tactic on Leica as a last resort to get them to go back to CCD sensors.
p.12 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
@adamwilde, I think Xiaomi will be the Chinese Leica, and that makes me really really excited. According to 43 rumors, a m43 camera will be announced by them on monday... depending on its success, I think a Leica clone could come from them in the next 3 years.
I have their action cam, and the interface and app connectivity blows all other camera manufacturers out of the water. Sony, Olympus, Panasonic are all in the stone age vs what is coming from Yi tech.
p.12 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
taran wrote:
Regardless, a capital infusion to Tower Jazz would be required and publicly stated, otherwise you would end up with Leica "S" prices. Fuji just couldn't sell 1000 units like leica and call it a success. They need the economies of scale. Hasselblad is already wedded to Sony, as is Pentax, so Fuji would be the only customer if they went to Tower. In other words, no way it would happen.
Also, Japanese companies tend to buy Japanese sensors.
Potential future customers could include Leica (who already use them), Fuji, Panasonic and possibly even Olympus (rumored to have a FF on the way). Heck, even Nikon is not out of the question, nor Ricoh. These guys will go where the technology is and if some future, groundbreaking sensor is available from Tower and not Sony, you can bet their would be customers.
As to you last point, that's already met as Tower is owned 49% by Panasonic and many of the sensor manufacturing sites are already located in Japan. Panasonic's strong involvement though is all that would likely matter.
p.12 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Potential future customers could include Leica (who already use them), Fuji, Panasonic and possibly even Olympus (rumored to have a FF on the way). Heck, even Nikon is not out of the question, nor Ricoh. These guys will go where the technology is and if some future, groundbreaking sensor is available from Tower and not Sony, you can bet their would be customers.
As to you last point, that's already met as Tower is owned 49% by Panasonic and many of the sensor manufacturing sites are already located in Japan. Panasonic's strong involvement though is all that would likely matter. ...Show more →
Seems like an anti monopoly coalition is attempting to form against Sony's dominance in the imaging sensor business. Probably a good thing as monopolists are usually not a good thing.
p.12 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
adamdewilde wrote:
I wonder why no China company has built a mirrorless M mount camera.
Or Cosina, for that matter. They built film M cameras until quite recently, they're still building a bunch of weird M lenses.
I don't understand quite what goes on in their heads. How could they not be making tons of money from all their Zeiss contract work? But they seem to have extremely limited development resources for their own products.
p.12 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Lee Saxon wrote:
Or Cosina, for that matter. They built film M cameras until quite recently, they're still building a bunch of weird M lenses.
I don't understand quite what goes on in their heads. How could they not be making tons of money from all their Zeiss contract work? But they seem to have extremely limited development resources for their own products.
Of course Cosina did build the very first digital M Rangefinder - and mirrorless interchangeable lens camera- in the Epson R-D1. I would not be surprised to see a Zeiss camera collaboration at some point from them.
p.12 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on TowerJazz providing competition. If you guys didn't know, they used to be Panasonic's sensor division and was responsible for the m43 sensors in Oly and Pana cameras till they freed themselves of that shackle and bought Sony sensors. Panasonic divesting themselves of their sensor business and then buying Sony sensors doesn't inspire a lot of faith in the divested business. Sony does need some competition, but it doesn't look good when even Samsung gives up.
p.12 #19 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
flash wrote:
I'm the opposite, sort of. I don't dislike any of the current Leica sensors or the one on my aging S2. And I prefer the colour coming out of any Leica sensor over the equivalent Sony. But I prefer the SL sensor to the M because with certain lenses (ie: Noctilux) there's way less purple fringing than on the M240. It also has marginally less noise and slightly better colour retention at higher ISO's. Other than that I shoot the M240 and SL side by side because they can be used together so easily. when I did some tests with the SL vs the XPro2 I also found it quite easy to get those two to match in processing. My Sony's have always given me trouble in matching other cameras.
This could be because I use Lightroom?? I know other processors do stuff differently.
!