Bokeh torture test. Shot this and have not posted it yet but very minimum lens focusing distance. This is without the Tech Art close focusing abilities. Busy scene
I see you mainly judge bokeh by the amount of onion rings it has Guy. That's not my main criteria. I see a double lined nervous background a lot of the time with the ZM on any A7 camera. As if I'm looking at it cross-eyed.
The FE 35/1.4 also somewhat has this wide open, but when you stop it down a littlebit it gets a lot better. Not so with the ZM (on an A7x sensor).
When I look at your horse test series it only gets confirmed. Bokeh is still nervous/double lined at f2. Especially at the edges.
Fred, thanks for the comparisons... but the (in my opinion) bad bokeh of the ZM really shows when things are only slightly out of focus. My 21 Loxia also has quite decent bokeh in the closeup range, but it also gets terrible (also double lined) when things are only slightly out of focus.
BTW, your examples also show how much wider the Sonnar actually is.
It's not my intention to spoil any parties. The reason why I looked at this lens so many times is because for some shots it looks really fantastic. I adore the colors and contrast. It's just that I'm sensitive to things like cross-eyed bokeh if it doesn't clean up with stopping down slightly.
I also don't care about Leica Guy, but it's a pity to see such a nice lens being degraded by a Sony sensor.
Oh and Guy, if this lens remains in your setup until let's say the end of the year... it really is your holy grail.
I see the double edge and its not killing me or even a slight stab in the belly. But those bokeh balls hurt a lot. I think with care this is a outstanding lens you just have to be smart shooting it and can avoid certain things. Im lucky and to be honest the perfect 35mm lens that is neutral , does everything just about correct but a bit slow and your all going to laugh but the GM 24-70 at 35mm is just the most neutral can't say a bad thing about it optic we have available its a shame its a 2.8 though. Ill shoot this until a GM 35mm F1.4 hits the streets, its fun.
I agree with Jochen, though there are times I don't mind the double-line bokeh as it's also a quality of the 50/1.5 Sonnar lenses and CV40/1.4...., two of which I like for 'character' purposes. Both of those 'clean up' with some stopping down.
IMO, the Sonnar in the RX1 series really 'separates' itself from other 35s with pleasing wide open background smoothness/transitions with middle distance subjects against relatively near backgrounds. The degree of blur maybe won't be as much as a faster lens, but the smoothness of the blur, IIRC, was more pleasing to my eyes.
Possibly what annoyed me most about the ZM35/1.4 images I shot and saw from others at medium subject distances was the manner in which the OOF specular highlight cats eyes towards the frame edges were truncated into an odd diamond/rhombus shape. There were Bangkok street market scenes shot by Edward Karraa showing this effect quite strongly, posted in the Leica image thread, but it's likely 1.5 years ago, so difficult to hunt down.
Here are a few examples of what I mean from when I first tried the lens at PPE+ in 2014. But these and Edward's images were shot on Leica. Has anyone seen similar on the Sony cameras?
The squared OOF blur 'circles' to the left of 'Phase One' and from the tiara worn by the model in the center of the crop:
But of course, this is to a degree nitpicking that perhaps isn't entirely relevant to how others will react to images made by the lens. That said, this is a technical gear forum, so I feel this type of dissection of image rendering characteristics isn't out of place.
FWIW, while I'm an advocate of the CV35/1.7, it also exhibits harshness at medium subject distances with nearer background elements, though I don't recall the diamond/rhombus effect happening with it. For my purposes, not being a heavy 35mm shooter, it's an adequate substitute for the ZM35/1.4, being similarly sharp with decent contrast, if not quite the same degree of 'bite' shown by the ZM.
A couple ZM35/1.4 images I shot at PPE+ in which I really liked the look of the lens:
Ron no argument but every image you just posted not a crop the same thing i am seeing constantly is that damn pop and images jumping off the screen here. The last three images in particular they just stand out. Its kind of easy too ignore the bad when you see that.
Now having said that if those where onion rings in the women shot. i would be driving a truck over the lens.
BTW I do like the VC 35mm 1.7 its a very nice lens.
Looks like it's time to break out a few christmas tree lights for a bokeh party! Thanks for posting the bokeh photos Fred, Guy. That50/1.5C ZM sure looks smooth in the two examples posted. I did a little bokeh test with the FE 35 F1.4 last weekend and will upload for comparison to the 35 ZM photos later this evening. Maybe a good idea to compare with the GM 24-70 at 35 too.
LBJ2 wrote:
Looks like it's time to break out a few christmas tree lights for a bokeh party! Thanks for posting the bokeh photos Fred, Guy. That50/1.5C ZM sure looks smooth in the two examples posted. I did a little bokeh test with the FE 35 this weekend and will upload for comparison to the 35 ZM photos later this evening. Maybe a good idea to compare with the GM 24-70 at 35 too.
That be great to see. You should try the zoom at 35mm as for me its where Im going if I need a neutrally perfect image.
Not going there . A lot of money for 24 mpx get it to 42 than I may open my eyes. But I've been down this road it's a complete dead end for me. To many working limitations why I got out
This is a fantastic discussion for those of us trying to figure out what to do next, thanks for opinions for and against the ZM35/1.4. A CV35/1.7 vs ZM35/1.4 thread was also recently revived for perusal.
For now I plan on selling a few of my less used M-mount lenses to free up some cash for the ZM35/1.4 to use on an A7 and A7II. While the bokeh quality at mid-distance is dicey to my eyes, the subject separation is really quite good for a 35mm lens, better than others I've used, even with the unfavorable shape of the field curvature, worsened on Sony bodies. For those occasions where I want to control a busy background, the ZF.2 35/1.4 is still the best, though even that lens has some onion rings and purple fringing to contend with. What we need, of course, is an interchangeable f/1.4 version of the sonnar on the RX1 cameras.
If you want to stay reasonably on the cheap ( bad word) the VC 35 1.7 is a nice lens. With a TAP it be a lot if fun. I had it twice and did like it but I'm chasing the Holy Grail it's just not out there in a single lens. But this lens to me is fun and I like the character. Depends on what your after. You want a boring look than the 35 2.8 is fine. I want the mojo
Don't know if others have seen this, but here is an article on Dear Susan comparing three lenses, two of which are the ZM 35/1.4 and the FE 35/2.8 on A7r (not A7r2).
Btw for me what I posted are test shots . I have done nothing in post . Maybe I should juice some for fun. I just did not want to do any of that as it confuses what it can do out of the can. Testing is not fun folks . Lol
But those bokeh balls hurt a lot. I think with care this is a outstanding lens you just have to be smart shooting it and can avoid certain things. Im lucky and to be honest the perfect 35mm lens that is neutral , does everything just about correct but a bit slow and your all going to laugh but the GM 24-70 at 35mm is just the most neutral can't say a bad thing about it optic we have available its a shame its a 2.8 though. Ill shoot this until a GM 35mm F1.4 hits the streets, its fun. 