Does anyone have any experience using the B1's or D1's in a Broncolor Para (specifically 133)? I own a bunch of Profoto lighting and I'm looking at pulling the trigger on the 133 soon and wanted to know what peoples' experiences were.
Specifically -- does the narrow-ish spread of the "built in" reflector on a B1 and/or D1 have any effect on its ability to fill the Para with light, or otherwise work as intended? I know frosted domes are available for these lights, but the flash tube is still not exposed and probably wouldn't do very much in the way of increasing the spread.
Second -- how well does it work (if at all correctly) with HSS using a B1?
With a frosted dome light does not go through the dome. The light causes the dome to glow, which increases the spread, while decreasing the intensity. Sorta like shooting light through a piece of white plexiglass/perspex.
As always, the only person who can answer the question is you. What satisfies me, may not satisfy you. There are a lot of rental houses in SoCal, so it should be easy to test.
Recently Profoto seems to be more interested in the HSS/TTL crowd, rather than the traditional commercial/studio photographer.
I find the dome on a B1/D1 does a fair job of getting 'close' to what an Acute or Pro head will do. The only place you'll notice the difference will be in larger softboxes or maybe a BD. It does pay some penalty for the tube being recessed, dome or not, vs. flush with the face of the light.
I have the Para 88 (fantastic unit - want the 133 as well) and normally use it with Acute & AcuteB heads, but have tested it with our B2. The light is obviously more forward biased, but it works fine. I don't do scientific tests, just try X as would normally use it and see if works - and how.
However, to get the light to fill the outer (broadest) edges of the Para when the rod is in the full flood position, using a small DIY extension on the Para's 5/8" pin with the B2 (with it's flat face) puts the light out a bit further.
Just a 5/8 female socket with a 6" baby pin threaded on the end with a split washer works fine. I just set the Para's extension so the fwd-biased light doesn't spill-out of the Para.
I've not nested it with out B1 or D1s as I prefer something lighter for regular use on a Para - and while the Paras WILL work with them and the heavy Bron Siros line, I have lighter options, so ...
I've not tested it with our Para, but HSS will work regardless of modifier, you must may lose or 'gain' some lumination strength (vs bare head) depending on if using a Para (and how set - pulled in is very efficient), a softbox or something like a Magnum.
c.d.embrey wrote:
Recently Profoto seems to be more interested in the HSS/TTL crowd, rather than the traditional commercial/studio photographer.
I've noticed this, and part of why i've held on to my Einsteins for so long, but i'm in a position that i'll probably have to get rid of them by necessity.
I love my B1's and B2's, but there are some limitations to its design and use with some modifiers, mostly due to its recessed flash tube.
Conner999 wrote:
I find the dome on a B1/D1 does a fair job of getting 'close' to what an Acute or Pro head will do. The only place you'll notice the difference will be in larger softboxes or maybe a BD. It does pay some penalty for the tube being recessed, dome or not, vs. flush with the face of the light.
I have the Para 88 (fantastic unit - want the 133 as well) and normally use it with Acute & AcuteB heads, but have tested it with our B2. The light is obviously more forward biased, but it works fine. I don't do scientific tests, just try X as would normally use it and see if works - and how.
However, to get the light to fill the outer (broadest) edges of the Para when the rod is in the full flood position, using a small DIY extension on the Para's 5/8" pin with the B2 (with it's flat face) puts the light out a bit further.
Just a 5/8 female socket with a 6" baby pin threaded on the end with a split washer works fine. I just set the Para's extension so the fwd-biased light doesn't spill-out of the Para.
I've not nested it with out B1 or D1s as I prefer something lighter for regular use on a Para - and while the Paras WILL work with them and the heavy Bron Siros line, I have lighter options, so ...
I've not tested it with our Para, but HSS will work regardless of modifier, you must may lose or 'gain' some lumination strength (vs bare head) depending on if using a Para (and how set - pulled in is very efficient), a softbox or something like a Magnum.
Enjoy the new gear....Show more →
I haven't purchased it yet, just doing some research before I buy, as i'm very close.
if you ever do (or if it's possible to test it for me) with the B1's and/or D1, let me know how it goes.
Thanks for the tip RE: extending the B2 a bit to help fill in the defocused position. I've heard that the 133 in particular can get front heavy when fully defocused, and i'd imagine even more so with a B1 on the end. and even MORE so if you need to add another 6" to the focusing tube to get the best fill at the edges.
does anyone happen to have any links or photos to a comparison of the spread between the opal glass on the B1/D1 vs the dome?
bgateb760 wrote:
Thanks for the tip RE: extending the B2 a bit to help fill in the defocused position. I've heard that the 133 in particular can get front heavy when fully defocused, and i'd imagine even more so with a B1 on the end. and even MORE so if you need to add another 6" to the focusing tube to get the best fill at the edges.
seems like a good idea, and probably entirely possible. In an old thread i'd read on here it was just mentioned in particular about the 88 vs 133. (133 needs some assistants to either hold or a c-stand and sandbags -- 88 they mentioned is more manageable -- all of which makes sense with any modifier really. the larger it is, the more unwieldy).
bgateb760 wrote:
I've noticed this, and part of why i've held on to my Einsteins for so long, but i'm in a position that i'll probably have to get rid of them by necessity.
I love my B1's and B2's, but there are some limitations to its design and use with some modifiers, mostly due to its recessed flash tube.
I'm retired now, but all I ever used was Acute, D4 and AcuteB. The Profoto mount is easy to attach to other companies reflectors—for-instance I adapted a 20" Speedotron. Plus the fact that you could use Elinchrom's Deflector Kit http://www.elinchrom.com/learn/1507-deflectors-html.html The Profoto umbrella mount is in the same place as the Elinchrom, and is about the same size.
With Profoto's new and improved () heads you can't use the Deflector Kit. My beloved AcuteB 600 is no more. So if I were starting out now I'd go with another brand. Broncolor, if you bill enough. Elinchrom or Hensel if you are just starting out.
c.d.embrey wrote:
I'm retired now, but all I ever used was Acute, D4 and AcuteB. The Profoto mount is easy to attach to other companies reflectors—for-instance I adapted a 20" Speedotron. Plus the fact that you could use Elinchrom's Deflector Kit http://www.elinchrom.com/learn/1507-deflectors-html.html The Profoto umbrella mount is in the same place as the Elinchrom, and is about the same size.
With Profoto's new and improved () heads you can't use the Deflector Kit. My beloved AcuteB 600 is no more. So if I were starting out now I'd go with another brand. Broncolor, if you bill enough. Elinchrom or Hensel if you are just starting out....Show more →
I may just need to get the Move 1200L pack as a sort of "one-trick pony" specifically for use with the para. I'm already too invested in the Profoto OCF system with the modifiers and adapted modifiers i've got.
On the up side, while I wait for more replies/experience, I found that Samy's down here can get them for rent, or will allow me to come in and play with one for a bit to test.
i'm really just worried about the coverage the built-in (77deg) reflector is capable of on the paras when defocused. I know HSS will work, but also wondering if there's any quality of light issue due to the pulsing of the flash at HSS/Hypersync
So, I did do some testing at Samy's and ended up ordering the Para 133 -- I'm working on a blog post and will link here once i've gotten it all written up, followed by a full review of the combo once the 133 comes in
I did recently also get a Move 1200L kit and plan to use it with the para exclusively. Keeping the profoto stuff because i'm already far too invested in their OCF system
I did recently also get a Move 1200L kit and plan to use it with the para exclusively. Keeping the profoto stuff because i'm already far too invested in their OCF system
Thankx for posting—a good read.
Me, I'd sell the OCF stuff while it still has some value. Godox, or some-other asian company will kill the OCF market soon.
bgateb760 wrote:
I may just need to get the Move 1200L pack as a sort of "one-trick pony" specifically for use with the para.
The title of your blog/site is very, very apt!
I use a para88 knockoff from mikrosat, their adapter works fine with profoto heads. The light out of it is absolutely gorgeous just like the bron examples I see posted. I've not used other sizes but someone that did a comparison online said you loose some of the para-ness of the light with the larger ones.
Me, I'd sell the OCF stuff while it still has some value. Godox, or some-other asian company will kill the OCF market soon.
I've already seen a lot of work with the godox, flashpoint, and other chinese strobes. they seem to be awesome for the price, and with a bowens mount, there are plentiful options for modifiers.
I still like the profoto stuff, though, and it'll always have a place in my kit for its ruggedness, performance and reliability. And all of the OCF modifiers I've already invested in. I'd hate to lose a good amount of money i just spent over the last year by trying to move into the Siros L (and possibly another Move pack) as replacements, and then trying to replace all my profoto modifiers.
on the up side, the RFi modifiers and rotalux modifiers are easily adapted to broncolor. The OCF modifiers aren't recommended to be used with an RFi speedring, so i can't adapt any of them. those will be strictly for use with the B1's and B2's
I have a ton of lighting and each piece has a place in my kit, either for a specific purpose, or just as a backup
I'm looking at an 88-sized para equivalent from Parabolix.
wrote up a preview on the blog here, and plan to link up with them to do some testing and comparisons between my 133 and their 45".
I may want to pick up their 88-equivalent, because a para 88 (at least right now) isn't in the cards after i blew so much money last month.
Looks like they on seem to sell it as part of an expensive kit now for some reason. I'd email them and ask - they were pretty helpful when I asked then questions to order the right stuff.
Mark_L wrote:
Looks like they on seem to sell it as part of an expensive kit now for some reason. I'd email them and ask - they were pretty helpful when I asked then questions to order the right stuff.
Ah, very interesting! thanks for the links -- it looks like the "expensive" lighting is becoming more affordable and accessible to the masses through things like this, and through the parabolix light shapers as well!
Conner999 wrote:
Thanks for the tip RE: extending the B2 a bit to help fill in the defocused position. I've heard that the 133 in particular can get front heavy when fully defocused, and i'd imagine even more so with a B1 on the end. and even MORE so if you need to add another 6" to the focusing tube to get the best fill at the edges.
The B1 is a heavy light and the Para 133 will likely be very nose-heavy with a B1 positioned at the end of the rod and worse with a 6" extension. Why not use the Para 133/88 without the B1 attached but instead place the B1 on a separate lightstand (preferably a C-Stand with boom arm) and adjust the position as needed in front of the Para 133? It should be easy to setup and would solve the balance and light-spread issue of using a B1/D1 with the Para 133/88. Also, no adapter or counter-balanced would be needed.
Kona - those are bgateb760's comments under my name, but as you say, the D1/B1 are heavy lights and using them extended in a para would be an accident / bent focus tube waiting to happen.
It can be done, as you see with the Siros lights, but would not be something I'd personally do often or at all.
You can mount the light on a stand facing into a para, but to get that textbook para 'look' you in a proper parabolic unit you need to get the light centered perfectly. You can skew yourself as desired to get whatever look you want, but it need centered as a starting point (as is, after all, what paying for). Could do it facing inwards on 2nd stand, but would be a PITA to do and even more so to move light, etc.
I've used generic so-called 'parabolic' modifiers ('parabolic' is like 'APO' in lenses - too often just marketing) that look the part but they're a) not truly parabolic and b) not built very accurately / well and having the light skewed inside the 'para' even modestly makes a difference in final results - especially when defocused.
We now have the Para88 and will be getting the 133 or 177 and while $%^&* costly, the results, build quality and ease of setup / tear down are stellar.
) heads you can't use the Deflector Kit. My beloved AcuteB 600 is no more. So if I were starting out now I'd go with another brand. Broncolor, if you bill enough. Elinchrom or Hensel if you are just starting out.
