p.2 #1 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
The "Zeiss badge" isn't on there for decoration. If it's on there it's because Zeiss contributed to the design of the lens. Sony hasn't been shy about developing FE lenses without Zeiss' involvement and without the Zeiss badge. Not sure why the "Zeiss badge" is being protested here.
p.2 #3 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
chrisgibbs wrote:
Absolute agreement here, and I wonder how many discussions the engineers have had with marketing on this! I was kind of perplexed when this lens (obviously a primo lens) appeared minus the GM moniker, as the recent GM's are obviously something special in their rendering. ~Chris
Zeiss obviously had to up their game competing in-house...probably 2 different design teams. Ain't competition wonderful.
p.2 #5 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
darbo wrote:
The "Zeiss badge" isn't on there for decoration. If it's on there it's because Zeiss contributed to the design of the lens. Sony hasn't been shy about developing FE lenses without Zeiss' involvement and without the Zeiss badge. Not sure why the "Zeiss badge" is being protested here.
When Hershey manufacture Cadbury chocolate (under license) in the US, we "chocoholic Brits" do notice a difference in the product. I think this is what's being discussed here, its not simply a case of "protesting" the Zeiss badge, its more where the different rendering styles fit in the overall Sony line-up. ~Chris
p.2 #9 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
darbo wrote:
The "Zeiss badge" isn't on there for decoration. If it's on there it's because Zeiss contributed to the design of the lens. Sony hasn't been shy about developing FE lenses without Zeiss' involvement and without the Zeiss badge. Not sure why the "Zeiss badge" is being protested here.
I'm not "protesting" the Zeiss badge. Zeiss has relatively little involvement with the Sony Zeiss lenses. They don't design the lens so much as "approve" Sony's design and "support" Sony through the design process. There's also T* and Zeiss QA testing equipment used. There's been enough written about this, including by Zeiss themselves, we don't really need to rehash it here.
The FE 55mm f/1.8 was designed by Naoki Miyagawa, a Sony engineer. There's an interesting interview with here. My point is simply that someday Sony may not need to bank on the belief that Zony lenses have some magical German fairy dust that transforms them from "just Japanese glass" into something much better. It's a shame that Naoki Miyagawa can't receive the credit he deserves for the FE 55mm's design.
p.2 #10 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
and so the conversation is evolving along the predicted trajectory:
A 'big' lens is released by Sony:
Week 1 - the small / light / cheap crowd dominate the conversation with their complaints
Week 2 - the whole Zeiss-involvement thing is debated, ranging from the "why" to the "how" with every sort of expert weighing in on yes / no / maybe-so and i particularly love the people who think they actually know the specific involvement Zeiss has with Sony lenses.
Thankfully, the lens should be in people's hands by the end of the month, so we can have something to actually comment on - it's the month between announcement and delivery that i'd rather go read about the presidential elections (something i'd rather save for when i'm sitting in the dentist chair having a tooth pulled).....
p.2 #11 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
Its odd that you say that Zeiss does relatively little... here is a quote from the Zeiss declaration:
Sony/ZEISS lenses are jointly developed by ZEISS and Sony. ZEISS supports Sony throughout the optical design and development process and then tests and approves the prototypes. Finally, ZEISS determines the test specifications for serial production.
Joint development, continual input throughout design and development, testing, and prototype approval. Then QA standards.... its actually quite large. Its supervisory, really.
And their involvement in QA standards... just about makes me sick. The greatest offenders of inconsistency in Sony's lens lineup bear the Zeiss badge. 35/1.4, 24-70/4.... even the 16-35/4. The 55/1.8 rarely has issues, but it isn't unheard of.
p.2 #12 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
bjornthun wrote:
The MTF of the new 50/1.4 ZA is at f/1.4 instead of at f/1.8 in case of the 55/1,8 ZA, which is 2/3 step down.
Yes... it would be nice to know how the two compare at f/1.8. Does that mid-field dip disappear quickly as the lens is stopped down or is it persistent?
p.2 #13 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
ecarlino wrote:
and so the conversation is evolving along the predicted trajectory:
A 'big' lens is released by Sony:
Week 1 - the small / light / cheap crowd dominate the conversation with their complaints
Week 2 - the whole Zeiss-involvement thing is debated, ranging from the "why" to the "how" with every sort of expert weighing in on yes / no / maybe-so and i particularly love the people who think they actually know the specific involvement Zeiss has with Sony lenses.
Thankfully, the lens should be in people's hands by the end of the month, so we can have something to actually comment on - it's the month between announcement and delivery that i'd rather go read about the presidential elections (something i'd rather save for when i'm sitting in the dentist chair having a tooth pulled)........Show more →
*sigh*
The only reason that came up is because I wanted to say something along the lines of "wow, looks like Sony put out a cracking lens, whoddathunk they were capable of anything quite this good." As long as folks don't do their best amplify an insignificant part of a minor post, I don't think you'll have to worry much about it. But thanks for taking time from the dentist's chair to moan about it.
p.2 #14 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
arduluth wrote:
I'm not "protesting" the Zeiss badge. Zeiss has relatively little involvement with the Sony Zeiss lenses. They don't design the lens so much as "approve" Sony's design and "support" Sony through the design process. There's also T* and Zeiss QA testing equipment used. There's been enough written about this, including by Zeiss themselves, we don't really need to rehash it here.
The FE 55mm f/1.8 was designed by Naoki Miyagawa, a Sony engineer. There's an interesting interview with here. My point is simply that someday Sony may not need to bank on the belief that Zony lenses have some magical German fairy dust that transforms them from "just Japanese glass" into something much better. It's a shame that Naoki Miyagawa can't receive the credit he deserves for the FE 55mm's design.
I get that you and Chris Gibbs have taken issue with my choice of the word "protest", but when you said you wish Sony would drop the Zeiss badge that is precisely the context that I was referring to with that word choice.
p.2 #15 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
arduluth wrote:
*sigh*
thanks for taking time from the dentist's chair to moan about it.
i figured it couldn't be anymore pointless than arguing over the collaboration between two sets of engineers / corporations - about which probably nobody on this board has any real idea, but seems to get discussed for days/weeks on end sometimes....
it's not just you or this thread - it's seriously every time a new lens comes out lately (whether or not it has the Zeiss badge)
and it's none of my business if people want to talk about it - but it has nothing to do with this particular lens....
p.2 #16 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
Darn, I just finished my transition to Nikon with a nice family of lenses... and of course because I just did that now I'm thinking... what I really need is just 3 lenses. A wide, a normal, and a portrait. Cycle continues.
p.2 #17 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
virtualrain wrote:
Yes... it would be nice to know how the two compare at f/1.8. Does that mid-field dip disappear quickly as the lens is stopped down or is it persistent?
I bet the big tangential mid-field dip is due to the thickness of the glass cover skewing the results on that area. The 50/1.4 ZA has a mid-field dip but perhaps its effect was exaggerated. I have tested many lenses with a mild mid-field dip being grossly exaggerated by the thicker glass cover. (WATE as an example)
Perhaps Roger can weigh in on this.
p.2 #18 · LensRentals: Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA is absolutely superb!
Fred, i think for your and Guy's first project as Roger's interns, you guys can shave down the glass that Roger uses - he mentions that it's just a bit different than the actual sensor glass used by Sony.
Roger comments in his article:
One note about that ‘halfway sag’ for both of you who actually read the articles and don’t just look at the graphs. This may be an artifact of sensor cover glass. We are limited to a full mm cover glass increments when testing, so for Sony lenses we use 2mm, which is close, but not exactly the same optical thickness as what covers the sensor. (It’s probably about 0.25 thicker). We generally don’t think of a 0.25mm difference as significant for SLRs, but that may not be absolutely true with the short back-focus distance of the FE mount. In other words, the Sony lens may actually be a bit better than what we see here. Or they may not, we aren’t certain yet.
