p.28 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
I can't speak for the Pentax glass but just some observing from members that know there stuff that own the glass , it does have sample variance and the glass is great but not rated that high in general. But I never shot it so take that with a grain of salt.
Might be true for some of Pentax's glass but the 28-45mm was the sharpest WA zoom I've ever used. Sharp all the way to the edges and haven't heard about too much sample variation with it.
p.28 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
If a Hasselblad 50MP mirrorless is priced at $9K, imagine how much a Pentax, Sony or Fuji MF mirrorless using the same sensor would cost? I've heard that the Sony sensor itself makes 3-4K of the price.
If medium format mirrorless is the future, any company would have to start an entire new line of lenses to accommodate for the smaller flange distance. Similarly to what Sony did for the 35mm full frame mirrorless, Hasselblad took the risk and is ahead of the big sensor game. I'm sure others will be watching the sales numbers closely and perhaps jump in if this is indeed a profitable market.
p.28 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
And that's the thing Fred. I'm just not so sure Sony itself would jump in as another new set of lenses. Which we are still waiting on more FE. Unless Zeiss took it on in a partnership with Sony. Now that's a possibility . Or dare I say Fuji. Love to see someone jump in also. It's very very tempting this Hassy. I could actually get back in at half the costs I put in before. Maybe more than half. Honestly I could deal with the lack of just about any feature set. As this would be my landscape kit. I don't even need a bloody meter. Lol I do need at least a 18 equivalent lens though. I like wide. No question I would still need my Sony A7r II plus my two GMs the rest I could sell for the Hassy. I gotta wait it out until Photokinia though.
p.28 #4 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I am not sure if Hasselblad has thought this through, but unless they introduce a focal plane shutter or an electonic shutter for the new system they could not use their lenses with extension tubes or a bellows unit unless they designed them with electric contacts. That would certainly add to the cost of their extension tubes and bellows. Maybe they do not care regarding the cost nor have any interest in using the camera for close work beyond designing one or 2 new macro lenses. I think that this is a big mistake. Perhaps we are correct that some third party will come up with one or more work arounds.
p.28 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
If a Hasselblad 50MP mirrorless is priced at $9K, imagine how much a Pentax, Sony or Fuji MF mirrorless using the same sensor would cost? I've heard that the Sony sensor itself makes 3-4K of the price.
If medium format mirrorless is the future, any company would have to start an entire new line of lenses to accommodate for the smaller flange distance. Similarly to what Sony did for the 35mm full frame mirrorless, Hasselblad took the risk and is ahead of the big sensor game. I'm sure others will be watching the sales numbers closely and perhaps jump in if this is indeed a profitable market....Show more →
I think that everyone else making a mini MF system (and even those making larger MF sensor systems) will watch this one closely, and for a bunch of reasons:
Previously the excellent Pentax 645z got a lot of traction because of its low pricing. Its image quality is excellent, but not more excellent that similar 50MP mini MF systems. Now it can be argued that the functional capabilities of the Pentax make it worth more on the basis of features than the Hasselblad, but then again the Hasselblad name has some value, too. I'm betting that Pentax will have to lower its prices, at least if the Hassy gains traction.
The kind of people who might have gotten something like the Canon 1Ds series bodies in the past may also look at such a system (as some did with the Pentax) and see that it is price-competitive. It costs more, but not that much more.
The lens issue is a fascinating one. Generally most MF photographers don't go quite as lens crazy as some full frame and similar photographers do, so it may not be necessary to produce quite as many lenses — but it still has to be essentially a new series. Not every manufacturer is willing or able to take that on.
I wonder how this affects the rumored Fujifilm MF system.
I'm betting that the full frame manufacturers will have their eyes on this as well. It isn't likely to become a very big market, but might it become enough of one to attract them? Hmmmm..
p.28 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
And that's the thing Fred. I'm just not so sure Sony itself would jump in as another new set of lenses. Which we are still waiting on more FE. Unless Zeiss took it on in a partnership with Sony. Now that's a possibility . Or dare I say Fuji. Love to see someone jump in also. It's very very tempting this Hassy. I could actually get back in at half the costs I put in before. Maybe more than half. Honestly I could deal with the lack of just about any feature set. As this would be my landscape kit. I don't even need a bloody meter. Lol I do need at least a 18 equivalent lens though. I like wide. No question I would still need my Sony A7r II plus my two GMs the rest I could sell for the Hassy. I gotta wait it out until Photokinia though....Show more →
When you were shooting with big sensors, Canon still had the best 35mm full frame sensor in the market!
At that time, it made a lot of sense as IQ was dramatic better with MF.
Then the D800 came along with its Sony 36MP sensor with incredible DR. It was a game changer. Suddenly IQ between 35mm and MF was not night and day anymore.
Now it's time for Sony to show off its new 35mm sensor at Photokina and perhaps the options we have now may not look so avant-garde. If we get a 70-80MP sensor with even higher DR, what would you prefer for your landscapes? Higher resolution vs slightly better tonal gradation and colors? Landscape photography changed recently and unrealistic colors are not an issue anymore...it's the norm. How about lens selection? We finally have a high IQ kit and great adaptability with the E-mount.
p.28 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Hasselblad apparently shared the following on their Facebook page:
Question: “If I had any one desire with a mirrorless camera, it would be to have an extremely compact normal lens (pancake lens) or compact zoom.”
Hasselblad: “On a shot-term we are introducing a 30 mm wide angle lens already at photokina in September this year. More XCD lenses to come next year. Having zoom will be difficult, as it almost impossible theoretically to develop a zoom lens for such large medium format sensor that is compact and practical for such portable camera. We hope this helps!”
p.28 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
gdanmitchell wrote:
Hasselblad apparently shared the following on their Facebook page:
Question: “If I had any one desire with a mirrorless camera, it would be to have an extremely compact normal lens (pancake lens) or compact zoom.”
Hasselblad: “On a shot-term we are introducing a 30 mm wide angle lens already at photokina in September this year. More XCD lenses to come next year. Having zoom will be difficult, as it almost impossible theoretically to develop a zoom lens for such large medium format sensor that is compact and practical for such portable camera. We hope this helps!”
"The electronic shutter function is otherwise only available in video mode, so we won't be introducing a general electronic shutter for normal shutter speeds as this sensor works best with a mechanical shutter."
"To start with we will concentrate on fixed focal length lenses as we can make these small in line with the compact concept of the camera. I expect there will be some demand for zooms but we will wait and see what that demand is and then respond to it. Right now though, we have no zooms on the roadmap. Personally I think they will have to be too big, and I want us to concentrate on the best performance and the highest resolution possible"
"If there will be a 100MP version of the X camera it will not be one using the current Sony offering that measures 53.4x40mm. 'The camera isn't designed to take a larger sensor,' I was told, 'and the XCD lenses don't have the covering circle to work with it. We designed the camera to be small and portable, and a part of that equation is the size of the sensor."
"It is still early days for this camera but when it comes to market it will have touch AF"
p.28 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
I can't speak for the Pentax glass but just some observing from members that know there stuff that own the glass , it does have sample variance and the glass is great but not rated that high in general. But I never shot it so take that with a grain of salt.
Yep. Yep and Yep.
There is a few things with Pentax glass. Sample variation is certainly one of them. But only on the older stuff. The new digital ready is very consistent. But when the 45-85 f4.5 cost 600 bucks shipped from Japan you can get a few and keep the one you like. That's what I did although all the ones I got were just great.
With the older 645 Pentax glass there's wide open performance, stopped down performance and sample variation. I do most of my shooting at f8 and beyond so I could get away with some glass that's not perfect wide open but really good a couple of stops down. And you're only using the centre of the image circle with the FA film lenses on the mini MF body. For landscapes lens performance is not an issue except for the 33-55, 45mm and 55-110 lenses which are dogs.
I picked up a range of lenses used, except for the spectacular and enormous 28-45 and the 55mm. The used lenses I got are really, really good. I've tested against the Zeiss 100MP and FE55mm 1.8 on an A7R2 and they compete in resolution. Some need to be stopped down to get the corners going. A few are great wide open (120mm macro especially). For the lenses I got there's nothing I have that makes me want to use a 35mm equivalent.
p.28 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
When you were shooting with big sensors, Canon still had the best 35mm full frame sensor in the market!
At that time, it made a lot of sense as IQ was dramatic better with MF.
Then the D800 came along with its Sony 36MP sensor with incredible DR. It was a game changer. Suddenly IQ between 35mm and MF was not night and day anymore.
Now it's time for Sony to show off its new 35mm sensor at Photokina and perhaps the options we have now may not look so avant-garde. If we get a 70-80MP sensor with even higher DR, what would you prefer for your landscapes? Higher resolution vs slightly better tonal gradation and colors? Landscape photography changed recently and unrealistic colors are not an issue anymore...it's the norm. How about lens selection? We finally have a high IQ kit and great adaptability with the E-mount....Show more →
Tough one to answer first let me say I got a lot of MF and Sony files. I'm going to show some tests and give everyone some raws to play . I have the Credo 50 this sensor shot with a tech cam and Rodenstock lens. Amazing combo and I have he same shots with Sony. Big bronco building. Might help us playing with the raws and see if folks see the differences . I can talk till I'm blue in the face but files are better
Okay I'm pretty content with a 42 or 50 Mpx sensor and I truly believe the 42mpx is more MF like than anything else in 35 . I pretty much said it day one with the A7rII the tonal range is completely different than our previous 36mpx .for the better and best I have seen to MF. Couple years ago your right MF did take the lead in a much bigger way. Today it's gotten a lot better between them and even a lot of MF folks went Sony. In all honesty I could not even think about dropping another 30k for MF right now even if I had the money but at 15k this opens the door, so yes it's very tempting . There is a increase here but I'm betting Sonys next sensor maybe the answer . Yea 70 Mpx would be great and if Sony can get even better tonal range from the 42mpx than MF might be off the table. I don't think we are there yet but I do love this 42mpx sensor and with it I do not miss MF as much as I did with the 36mpx we had.
The one thing is functionality too , it's going to be hard for MF folks to give us feature sets without more costs so you have to be careful what direction you go, format change and aspect ratio change come into play but I'm really willing to wait for Sonys next big thing. Tough call Fred I know this 50 Mpx sensor has the juice but can Sony give it to us in 35
The other issue is giving up some really nice E glass that finally are really really good. If nothing comes out of Sony by Photokinia than maybe it's time to move on but we need to see more lenses out of this Hassy too before any switching goes on.
Oh BTW Nittho made Hassy X-Pan lens for them. Which where very good. So that's a good sign
p.28 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I have a 80-160 and it works very nicely.
Dan
flash wrote:
Yep. Yep and Yep.
There is a few things with Pentax glass. Sample variation is certainly one of them. But only on the older stuff. The new digital ready is very consistent. But when the 45-85 f4.5 cost 600 bucks shipped from Japan you can get a few and keep the one you like. That's what I did although all the ones I got were just great.
With the older 645 Pentax glass there's wide open performance, stopped down performance and sample variation. I do most of my shooting at f8 and beyond so I could get away with some glass that's not perfect wide open but really good a couple of stops down. And you're only using the centre of the image circle with the FA film lenses on the mini MF body. For landscapes lens performance is not an issue except for the 33-55, 45mm and 55-110 lenses which are dogs.
I picked up a range of lenses used, except for the spectacular and enormous 28-45 and the 55mm. The used lenses I got are really, really good. I've tested against the Zeiss 100MP and FE55mm 1.8 on an A7R2 and they compete in resolution. Some need to be stopped down to get the corners going. A few are great wide open (120mm macro especially). For the lenses I got there's nothing I have that makes me want to use a 35mm equivalent.
p.28 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
gdanmitchell wrote:
I have a 80-160 and it works very nicely.
Dan
Me too. I like it better than some say on the internet. I find it's good to about 140 and then falls off at the long end on mini MF. I bought two copies. Both are about a stop behind my (excellent) 45-85 from 80-140mm and a bit behind the 120 and 150 at similar apertures.
p.28 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
flash wrote:
I had an XPan. I'm pretty sure the camera AND lenses were Fujifilm made. The lenses were clearly marked Fujinon. Or did Fujifilm outsource.
Gordon
Hassy did say they made the x pan glass so maybe it was outsourced from Fuji. A lot of that goes around with lenses as we know.
p.28 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
So a small XID might be a great way to get in. That cam above with two lenses and. 60mpx back costs about 35k. That bottom lens alone is a Rodenstock 32mm it costs around 7800. Maybe one of the bet tech cam lenses ever made.
p.28 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
"...we won't be introducing a general electronic shutter for normal shutter speeds as this sensor works best with a mechanical shutter."
