p.15 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
snapsy wrote:
The difficulty with a larger sensor is more about read-out speed than complexity, ie whether the read-out speed is so slow that it becomes impractical to call it a functional electronic shutter. Since the sensor supports video capture it by definition has an electronic shutter
Yeah by "difficult" I meant "difficult to make it fast enough". All digital cameras by definition have an electronic shutter even the ones before video (though I guess they might lack the ability to time the reset precisely enough to implement fast shutter speeds). However I can't really see anyone offering an electronic shutter with a scan time as slow as 0.5s, there would be too many complaints about artifacts. Plus it would be of limited appeal to medium format users if it couldn't be used with flash or hot lights...
I also have this sneaking feeling they wouldn't offer an electronic shutter option even if the sensor was capable - they will want to force people to buy their own lenses as the margins are probably higher than on the camera bodies (and it's a more continual revenue stream).
p.15 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I'm really hoping Sony releases a similar camera at a much lower price. Even if probably I would only have a chance to get one second-hand.
I hope Sony also get some inspiration from the X1D regarding ergonomics and interface, from the videos I've seen it may be a real masterclass in this regard.
At an affordable price I would trade the A7 system for this, even knowing I would lose some good stuff like IBIS and getting not much more IQ, the non-3:2 aspect ratio alone is a major plus for me (I'm always wishing for a 4:3 or 5:4 full-frame camera) and the incremental IQ would make a greater difference from my Fuji's APS-C.
p.15 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Matt Grum wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think there's any way Sony could cope with another lens mount and format, they seem to struggle with the two they have already!
Agreed!
That's being said I can't help but think that Sony is using the Hasselblad as a test. I think they might want to see how users react to the actual shape and ergonomics, as well as some of the features like dual SD cards, touch screen and whatnot, to make a decision on the supposed A9 (if the camera actually exist and they plan to make it). If they do make it, it wouldn't surprise me if it looks very similar to this new Hasselblad, although I have to think it will be a bit thicker to accommodate IBIS for the FF sensor, articulating screen and shutter and every else is missing. I don't know, that's just my 2 cents.
I just really hope it has a much better EVF at the very least lol.
p.15 #6 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
I'm really hoping Sony releases a similar camera at a much lower price. Even if probably I would only have a chance to get one second-hand.
I hope Sony also get some inspiration from the X1D regarding ergonomics and interface, from the videos I've seen it may be a real masterclass in this regard.
At an affordable price I would trade the A7 system for this, even knowing I would lose some good stuff like IBIS and getting not much more IQ, the non-3:2 aspect ratio alone is a major plus for me (I'm always wishing for a 4:3 or 5:4 full-frame camera) and the incremental IQ would make a greater difference from my Fuji's APS-C....Show more →
Sony have moved their pricing up quite a bit since the original A7 release. We have even heard talk of $5000+ future A9's recently. Given that, I suspect any Sony offering using this sensor would be priced not too far off what Hasselblad is asking. Ricoh/ Pentax though have the greatest potential and incentive to offer a much cheaper mirrorless version of their Pentax 645z. For one, they likely already have a decent stash of the sensors and two, there is a lot of room within their own line between the $1799 Pentax K-1 FF and the current Pentax 645z.
p.15 #9 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Sony have moved their pricing up quite a bit since the original A7 release. We have even heard talk of $5000+ future A9's recently.
If sony plonks the A9 on the market at $5000+, might as well just get the X1D Even the A7 series are expensive, 3.5k for the A7rii is a lot of money for something which is, aside from the sensor, nothing special.
p.15 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
timde wrote:
If sony plonks the A9 on the market at $5000+, might as well just get the X1D Even the A7 series are expensive, 3.5k for the A7rii is a lot of money for something which is, aside from the sensor, nothing special.
The A7rII has BIONZ X image processor, IBIS (only Sony offers FF IBIS), 399 phase-detect points and 25 contrast-detect points, accepts a reasonable collection of Sony, Zeiss, and CV lenses; and accepts most lenses ever offered for FF cameras- SLR, DSLR, and M-mount.
The new Hasselblad will accept a very limited number of Hasselblad and possibly other maker's lenses especially if a focal plane or a universal shutter can not be used.
p.15 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I find the new X1D a fascinating development with great potential for certain applications but there's no way I'd say it's competition is any of the Sony a7 (or hypothetical a9) cameras.
A similar pixel count means very little. A Toyota Prius and a diesel pickup truck both have four wheels. I'd consider one the substitute for another only if the only goal is the most basic transportation.
p.15 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
Diffraction is something that truly is equalized between formats. To get equivalent depth of field, you need to stop down more. Sure, you can shoot at f/16 on this and get the same level of diffraction as you get at f/13 on FF...but you need f/16 to get the same depth of field as f/13 on FF, so it's a wash.
There is one case when this turns into a real, material advantage for the larger sensor. When you have to stop down in order to get a long exposure, the larger sensor system can be stopped down more to get a longer exposure with the same DOF and diffraction.
For someone like me who most often use aspect ratios closer to square than 3:2, the difference in maximum shutter speed at equivalent DOF and diffraction is 1.87x higher than FF, based on the vertical crop factor.
The X1D looks like a really nice camera, but with the initial price and lens selection, I have no rush.
p.15 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
kparseg wrote:
I'm sure it's a great camera but I'm not sure how one can comment on functionality of the design and how comfortable the grip is without even holding the camera in his hands and using it for some time. Let's also see how this sleek design affects the weather sealing and sturdiness of the body itself.
I could be wrong in all of my comments. I am commenting based on the photos & videos online, not based holding the camera in my hands. Of course, there is a risk of getting it wrong; it may not be as functional as it looks. Still, the design I see online appeals to me.
p.15 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
I tested this sensor on a Leaf Credo 50 mpx back. Its outstanding. This same sensor is in Phase, Hassy and leaf plus Pentax. There all using this exact sensor. As far as DXO is concerned in my mind i do not even care. Its as good as or better than our 42mpx sensor now. But it can shoot for two minutes and ISO 3200 looks outstanding. Thats good enough for me
Do you really think the 50Mp sensor is "better" than the 42Mp BSI sensor? Not trying to put you on the spot, but I think the 42Mp looks like a 6x6 transparency (especially images from the Sony RX1RII). From the limited examples I've seen of the 50Mp, it looks like a larger version of the 36Mp sensor in the Nikon D810, which to me does not look like a 6x6 transparency. Maybe that extra real estate in the 50Mp makes the difference.
If are able you get a copy of the Hasselblad, maybe you could put together some sort of comparison. I know different lenses, etc... but it could be informative.
p.15 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
telyt wrote:
I find the new X1D a fascinating development with great potential for certain applications but there's no way I'd say it's competition is any of the Sony a7 (or hypothetical a9) cameras.
The interesting thing about the X1D is its price. I think in _some_ ways it is exactly competing against the A7/9 cameras, as well as other brands - take a look at the the side by side photos and that is fairly clear. You might need one thing or the other that only one brand is offering, however if that is not the case then this X1D can be a lot more interesting.
I can work towards this X1D, it makes MF attainable and practical. And I think its pricing, and the pricing of the Pentax K-1, make an interesting situation for the rest of the market.
p.15 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I would be careful here it's going to depend on pixel pitch too. Maybe a half stop. We already seeing the A7r11 f11 it's diffracting. Being a slightly bigger pixel pitch on the Hassy it's possible F16 but my 60mpx back I was seeing it start at F11 with DSLR lenses and F9 in a tech cam and Rodenstick. So it's a combo of pixel pitch and just how dang good your glass is . We will have to how good these native lenses are but they do look good in spec.
Interesting to see where this falls. Good point though alundeb wrote:
There is one case when this turns into a real, material advantage for the larger sensor. When you have to stop down in order to get a long exposure, the larger sensor system can be stopped down more to get a longer exposure with the same DOF and diffraction.
For someone like me who most often use aspect ratios closer to square than 3:2, the difference in maximum shutter speed at equivalent DOF and diffraction is 1.87x higher than FF, based on the vertical crop factor.
The X1D looks like a really nice camera, but with the initial price and lens selection, I have no rush....Show more →
p.15 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
timde wrote:
The interesting thing about the X1D is its price. I think in _some_ ways it is exactly competing against the A7/9 cameras, as well as other brands - take a look at the the side by side photos and that is fairly clear.
The side-by-side photos tell me nothing about low-ISO color, high-ISO noise, responsiveness or menu structure. Nor do they tell me anything about the relative effectiveness of each camera's anti-vibration strategies, artificial lighting capabilities or portability of the system as a whole. If none of these factors is important then comparing these side-by-side photos may be useful.
p.15 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
carlitos wrote:
Do you really think the 50Mp sensor is "better" than the 42Mp BSI sensor? Not trying to put you on the spot, but I think the 42Mp looks like a 6x6 transparency (especially images from the Sony RX1RII). From the limited examples I've seen of the 50Mp, it looks like a larger version of the 36Mp sensor in the Nikon D810, which to me does not look like a 6x6 transparency. Maybe that extra real estate in the 50Mp makes the difference.
It's not "just a larger version", since the density is different, the 50MP sensor would be 30.5MP if cropped down to small format. It's probably based on similar technology, but the dynamic range is even greater than what the D810 can manage by a small amount, there's likely a good 15 stops on this camera. A friend of mine owns the A7RII, but I haven't actually asked him to show me Raws, although his images do look quite good. IMO the results I get with the Pentax 645Z are as good as I could ever hope for from any camera. Also, don't forget that each company provides their own tweaks to the sensor design, just because Phase, Leaf, Hass and Pentax use the same chip, doesn't mean you'll get the same results.
p.15 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
alundeb wrote:
There is one case when this turns into a real, material advantage for the larger sensor. When you have to stop down in order to get a long exposure, the larger sensor system can be stopped down more to get a longer exposure with the same DOF and diffraction.
.
This is true, but you can also just add an ND filter and get the same shutter speed and diffraction. In any case, seeing the specs and the true size, this is a very interesting camera...I do wonder about the relative IQ improvements, but it's still an interesting entry into the community.
Even the A7 series are expensive, 3.5k for the A7rii is a lot of money for something which is, aside from the sensor, nothing special.