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Archive 2016 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?

  
 
kosin
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p.1 #1 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


I need help/suggestion on how to eliminate shake during video with a long telephoto lens.
While in the field, getting a photograph is my main goal. Video is a secondary thought. Therefore my setup is based on photography needs, camera + 600mm lens + extender on a tripod with a gimbal head. This works awesome! but for videos, not so much... Even a slight side breeze will cause an unwanted camera shake. Even trying to stabilize the lens and camera, by holding/touching either one or both, introduces minor shake at the focal length +600mm. Also, I can forget about any smooth panning.

What would be your suggestion on eliminating the shake? Would a proper video/fluid head solve the issue? If so, are there any that would work for photography as well? Which model would you recommend? I need an Arca Swis plate compatibility.

Thanks in advance!

Edited on Jun 05, 2016 at 07:10 PM · View previous versions



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:04 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #2 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


The choices for long lenses are a little tough. Short of any improvement in the general stability of your rig I'm not sure there's a reasonable solution. Have you ever tried removing the jitters in post-processing using a plug-in for your video editor?


Jun 05, 2016 at 07:09 PM
kosin
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p.1 #3 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


snapsy wrote:
The choices for long lenses are a little tough. Short of any improvement in the general stability of your rig I'm not sure there's a reasonable solution. Have you ever tried removing the jitters in post-processing using a plug-in for your video editor?


Yes, in most scenarios it works but the final video ends up cropped. Especially, when shooting 1080p. With any crop I'm loosing quality. Not a big problem but I feel that I can get better results with proper tools. At the moment, I'm just not sure what to look for...

Edited on Jun 05, 2016 at 07:27 PM · View previous versions



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:16 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #4 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Does IS help any?


Jun 05, 2016 at 07:17 PM
kosin
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p.1 #5 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


snapsy wrote:
Does IS help any?


Yes, IS definitely helps but at this focal length even a slight breeze, shakes my current setup. During video it is much more obvious...



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:21 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #6 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Get a better tripod and a proper video head for smooth panning.

EBH



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:27 PM
kosin
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p.1 #7 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


EB-1 wrote:
Get a better tripod and a proper video head for smooth panning.

EBH


Will the proper video head solve the "shake" issue with a side wind? Which model would you recommend? Best if it is Arca Swiss compatible.



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:32 PM
RobAmy
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p.1 #8 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


A video head will not stop wind shake, that is more to do with the tripod. Try to get your tripod lower and spread the legs open more if possible, that will help. I use my 800mm a bit for video and it is stable for video work. I use the RRS video fluid head and love it, pricey yes but it is awesome. I now use it for 100% of my still work and video work. That will improve your panning 100%. I use the Gitzo GT4552TS tripod and love it.


Jun 05, 2016 at 07:47 PM
kosin
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p.1 #9 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


RobAmy wrote:
A video head will not stop wind shake, that is more to do with the tripod. Try to get your tripod lower and spread the legs open more if possible, that will help. I use my 800mm a bit for video and it is stable for video work. I use the RRS video fluid head and love it, pricey yes but it is awesome. I now use it for 100% of my still work and video work. That will improve your panning 100%. I use the Gitzo GT4552TS tripod and love it.


Thanks Rob for a quick response! Much appreciated!
I forgot to mention, that most often, I'm at a very low angle to the ground. Either shooting from a tripod, with legs spread out, or a Skimmer Pod. In addition, I'm using a low profile replacement foot. Either my gimbal is not stable enough, or there is no "cheap" way to stabilize the telephoto lens



Jun 05, 2016 at 07:56 PM
RobAmy
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p.1 #10 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


I should add for a budget head the Manfrotto 504HD is not a bad head for the cost for the larger lens. I had that one before the RRS. I just found it large to travel with. My setup now it great for travel. Packs in the carry on well and is Arca Swiss compatible.

Here is a screen grab from video showing the detail at 1/60th of a second with the 800mm

Female Cardinal 4k screen grab by A & R Photography, on Flickr




Jun 05, 2016 at 08:02 PM
kosin
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p.1 #11 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


RobAmy wrote:
I should add for a budget head the Manfrotto 504HD is not a bad head for the cost for the larger lens. I had that one before the RRS. I just found it large to travel with. My setup now it great for travel. Packs in the carry on well and is Arca Swiss compatible.

Here is a screen grab from video showing the detail at 1/60th of a second with the 800mm

https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7520/26793960610_bb0c54f1d0_b.jpgFemale Cardinal 4k screen grab by A & R Photography, on Flickr



Thanks!
I will most likely test Manfrotto first, before RSS <--- $$$$ ouch
I was also looking at the newest Acratech video head: http://www.acratech.net/video-products/video-head/video-ballhead/ but I'm afraid it will still produce some shake with the telephoto lens.




Edited on Jun 05, 2016 at 08:17 PM · View previous versions



Jun 05, 2016 at 08:14 PM
RobAmy
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p.1 #12 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Another trick is to remove the hood during windy conditions, that will help also. Depending on what your shooting also, use your body to block some of the wind. I use a external monitor also, so it makes the lens in a different spot easy to use. Sorry but again something with the cost. Video is not cheap at all. I would say anything over 15/20 mph you will have trouble with long lenses no matter the gear supporting it. The skimmer pod would be tough for stable footage in any conditions with a long lens.


Jun 05, 2016 at 08:14 PM
kosin
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p.1 #13 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


RobAmy wrote:
Another trick is to remove the hood during windy conditions, that will help also. Depending on what your shooting also, use your body to block some of the wind. I use a external monitor also, so it makes the lens in a different spot easy to use. Sorry but again something with the cost. Video is not cheap at all. I would say anything over 15/20 mph you will have trouble with long lenses no matter the gear supporting it. The skimmer pod would be tough for stable footage in any conditions with a long lens.


Actually, I was thinking about removing the hood but never tested it. I will definitely try it out next time around.
Thanks for your input!



Jun 05, 2016 at 08:19 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #14 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Sounds like you are shooting with the gimbal head loose, rather than clamped down. If that is because you are panning to follow action, then it needs to be loose, and there are only a few things that may help. One is your built in image stabilization, which should help a lot with faster jiggles like from wind. Do a compare with and without IS on to see how much it is helping. Another thing is to change from a loose connection to your support, like the loose gimbal head, to a fluid head that will dampen out some of the vibration. But the fluid head needs to be a good one for a lens that big, and it needs to be supported by a good tripod. With a loose gimbal head, the tripod does not matter much, but for a clamped down head, or for a fluid head, the tripod matters a lot.

When I do not need to carry it very far, I use the Really Right Stuff fluid head on a RRS leveling base mounted on a RRS series 4 tripod, for both stills and video. I my biggest lens is the Canon 600 f/4 L IS II, and I use it on the fluid head setup. I put a very low profile lens plate on the lens, which fits the Arca Swiss clamp of the RRS fluid head to allow front to back neutral balance. The 600 weighs too much to be fully balanced by the adjustable spring in the RRS fluid head, but for near level shooting it is fine. You can also lock down the fluid head to work that way for static stills or static video. The RRS fluid head is expensive, as are the RRS sticks I have it on, but it is probably the lightest fluid head available that can really handle a lens that big.

If you are stuck with using a loose gimbal head, then besides IS, the only other thing that may help is to try the shooting method of putting your left hand on the top of the lens hood, to add some mass and a bit of dampening to the whole set up. That technique helps for stills, and should help for tracking video, but you may need to practice it a bit before using it "for real".



Jun 05, 2016 at 08:22 PM
kosin
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p.1 #15 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Roland W wrote:
Sounds like you are shooting with the gimbal head loose, rather than clamped down. If that is because you are panning to follow action, then it needs to be loose, and there are only a few things that may help. One is your built in image stabilization, which should help a lot with faster jiggles like from wind. Do a compare with and without IS on to see how much it is helping. Another thing is to change from a loose connection to your support, like the loose gimbal head, to a fluid head that will dampen out some
...Show more

Thank you for your comment!

Lately, when shooting a static object, a perched bird, I clamp all the knobs down, including the tripod collar knob. But still have vibrations when there is a slight wind. When panning, I try to have knobs about 10-20% loose...
When recording video, and holding my hand on the lens and/or camera, there is about 70% improvement but my hand also introduces vibration. Video at this magnification is super sensitive

I'll keep working on my technique and most likely I'll try out the Manfrotto fluid head.

I wonder if there is a gimbal head that would have a removable handle for panning?

I welcome more comments and suggestion.





Jun 05, 2016 at 10:31 PM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #16 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


I use a massive Manfrotto 516 fluid head to shoot bird videos at up to 1600 mm. I don't engage IS when filming a static subject because I don't like the look of the "IS drift." I only engage IS when panning.

When there's a slight wind, I place my bean bag over the lens and remove the strap that could catch the wind. This helps a bit, but when the wind is strong enough, the effect would really show in the footage.

Alternatively, you can engage IS and pan the scene. The panning motion would mitigate the "shaky look" of the video.

Here's a short video footage of a Purple Heron taken in strong wind with panning IS engaged. I actually shot this from my car, using a bean bag. The other birds were filmed using a 516 head and 475B tripod, with panning IS engaged.








Jun 06, 2016 at 12:41 AM
thebmrust
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p.1 #17 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Could invest in a gyro.

But if you think about it... even network news/sports cameras are subject to shake at extreme focal lengths.



Jun 06, 2016 at 02:29 AM
kosin
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p.1 #18 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


Liquidstone wrote:
I use a massive Manfrotto 516 fluid head to shoot bird videos at up to 1600 mm. I don't engage IS when filming a static subject because I don't like the look of the "IS drift." I only engage IS when panning.

When there's a slight wind, I place my bean bag over the lens and remove the strap that could catch the wind. This helps a bit, but when the wind is strong enough, the effect would really show in the footage.

Alternatively, you can engage IS and pan the scene. The panning motion would mitigate the "shaky look"
...Show more

Some good tips here!
Bean bag over the lens should work better than my hand. Somehow, I didn't think about it. Thanks!




Jun 06, 2016 at 11:52 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #19 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


thebmrust wrote:
Could invest in a gyro.


Can you explain that further? I'm curious how a gyro can help shooting video with long lenses.




Jun 06, 2016 at 06:42 PM
thebmrust
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p.1 #20 · Need help with eliminating video shake while using long lens?


A powered gyroscope spins on 3-axis and provides positive movement stabilization. I would describe it as "active" stabilization not "passive" like a steady cam setup or gimbal on a tripod (that uses separate 3 axis pivot points to "reduce" body or device movement".

Just do a google search on powered gyroscope camera platform.

On this page linked below, look at the upper right photo & says "WANT TO SEE A KENYON GYRO IN ACTION?"
http://photoshipone.com/camera-gyro/
Note: gyro prices are all over the place. So shop shop shop around.



Jun 07, 2016 at 04:25 PM
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