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Archive 2016 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Bobg657
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p.130 #1 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

I know Robin ises OV3 for his raw conversions, I've tried it and found it way too slow but perhaps just for special shots it might be ok. I also don't know what I'm doing with it, that may be part of my problem!

Oct 05, 2017 at 11:27 PM

Wilbus
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p.130 #2 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Bobg657 wrote:
I know Robin ises OV3 for his raw conversions, I've tried it and found it way too slow but perhaps just for special shots it might be ok. I also don't know what I'm doing with it, that may be part of my problem!

It's not you.. that program is as slow as a dead snail. I have it installed though, if nothing else for comparison with other program but truth is, it's not only slow, you also lack a lot of options. Since we're already discussing sharpening for example. In OV3 you have 5 choices ranging from -2 to +2. With other words, same settings as in camera if you shoot JPG. You do get to some options of micro adjustments as well but still far too little control. Other tools are pretty much the same.

The only company I've seen do a RAW-converter at least "semi" right was Nikon with Capture NX when they had the control points from Nik Software, which they don't anymore. Not sure how the program works now though, that was over 5 years ago.

I would guess that both Robin and Ming may very well sharpen their images in Photoshop after the raw conversion but don't know for sure. I am testing some techniques for it now but using Affinity Photo instead, trying to get away from Adobe if possible and no, it's got nothing to do with their monthly payment plan.

Ming Then states he is using Capture One Pro in many of his blog posts and he mentions nothing else regarding Photoshop so I guess it's all from Capture One.

Will post my findings with examples when I have tried a few shots

Oct 05, 2017 at 11:42 PM

bobbytan
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p.130 #3 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Are we looking at a market shift in the foreseeable future?

http://www.43rumors.com/off-brand-nikoncanon-launch-professional-mirrorless-systems-2018/

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:28 AM

Wilbus
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p.130 #4 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

bobbytan wrote:
Are we looking at a market shift in the foreseeable future?

http://www.43rumors.com/off-brand-nikoncanon-launch-professional-mirrorless-systems-2018/

Market shift as in?

As in m43 dying? Don't think it will but I do think it will be harder for m43 to compete with new, possible large frame mirrorless systems. Specially if those mirrorless cameras and lenses offer good quality to a somewhat affordable price. I think we've already hit the high line of how much m43 can charge for their cameras for example. The E-M1.2 is around $2000 in Sweden but the GH5 is actually some 400-500 more expensive.

It will all come down to wether those two "giants" actually do it right or if they f*** up as they have before and don't dedicate them selves fully. By this I don't mean they should stop producing DSLR's but I mean that if they want to make something mirrorless they need to do it as good as they can without castrating the cameras or the entire system.

It'll be interesting to see and it'll be interesting to see if they can release something that is as fast focusing as their DSLR's.

Oct 06, 2017 at 10:18 AM

mitesh
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p.130 #5 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Particularly for nature and wildlife photographers who want/need fast telephoto lenses, a FF mirrorless camera won�t do much to shrink the size of FF lenses.

bobbytan wrote:
Are we looking at a market shift in the foreseeable future?

http://www.43rumors.com/off-brand-nikoncanon-launch-professional-mirrorless-systems-2018/

Oct 06, 2017 at 10:29 AM

bobbytan
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p.130 #6 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Market shift as in how the ground is going to shift when Canon and Nikon enters the FF mirrorless market and who is going to be the dominant player. For sure, it's going to affect Sony much more than Olympus or Panasonic, or Fuji. MFT has a niche market and I think they will survive as long as sensor technology continues to move forward - so m43 sensors keep getting better and better. If anything, the APS-C or DX format could be more at risk - as there is less and less of an advantage over m43 in terms of image quality - and their lenses are almost just as big and heavy as FF lenses.

Wilbus wrote:
Market shift as in?

As in m43 dying? Don't think it will but I do think it will be harder for m43 to compete with new, possible large frame mirrorless systems. Specially if those mirrorless cameras and lenses offer good quality to a somewhat affordable price. I think we've already hit the high line of how much m43 can charge for their cameras for example. The E-M1.2 is around $2000 in Sweden but the GH5 is actually some 400-500 more expensive.

It will all come down to wether those two "giants" actually do it right or if they f*** up...Show more →

Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 10:40 AM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2017 at 10:38 AM

newphoto
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p.130 #7 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

mitesh wrote:
Particularly for nature and wildlife photographers who want/need fast telephoto lenses, a FF mirrorless camera won�t do much to shrink the size of FF lenses.

It won't do anything to Olympus's market share. Nikon and Canon already have mirror less cameras. A full frame with it's huge lenses won't attract users away from MFT, who mostly adapted the system because of the low weight and quality that is surprisingly good.

Oct 06, 2017 at 10:38 AM

Wilbus
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p.130 #8 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

mitesh wrote:
Particularly for nature and wildlife photographers who want/need fast telephoto lenses, a FF mirrorless camera won�t do much to shrink the size of FF lenses.

Agree, fast telephoto lenses will still be big and heavy. I'm not sure how the phase fresnel technology works (have to read up on it) but if they can make a 300F4 the size Nikon has, what's stopping them from using the same technology for a 600mm? Or a F2.8 lens? If they can almost half the size of long telephoto lenses and maintain the image quality that will truly revolutionize the industry. Hopefully this could also extend down to smaller sensors.
---------------------------------------------

bobbytan wrote:
Market shift as in how the ground is going to shift when Canon and Nikon enters the FF mirrorless market and who is going to be the dominant player. For sure, it's going to affect Sony much more than Olympus or Panasonic, or Fuji. MFT has a niche market and I think they will survive as long as sensor technology continues to move forward - so m43 sensors keep getting better and better. If anything, the APS-C or DX format could be more at risk - as there is less and less of an advantage over m43 in terms of...Show more →

Understood, I think there will be a market shift or at least a market stabilization where Sony will face fiercer competition in the FF market. Let's face it, Sony has got some great sensors but they are the only viable option for a large sensor and mirrorless for those who wants to adapt old lenses for example. Their cameras clearly show that Sony is an electronics company though, not a camera company. As does their very late dedication and understanding that a system needs lenses.

I've been saying for years that APS-C is the most likely to go first. With Fujifilm probably being the only one to keep making APS-C, specially now since they were smart enough to skip FF and go right you to medium format in order to make a big enough difference, that and the fact that their medium format is actually affordable compared to Phase One and Hasselblad.

I m43 will stay alive, at least for quite some years to come. Maybe the market will stabilize in 36x24mm again just as the analog market did but we'll see. The sensor size really isn't what sets the price point for cameras anymore but I still think m43 needs to be very careful with their pricing in order to stay competitive and the E-M1.2 and GH5 are very much on the line for that now, if not above it.
--------------------------------------------

newphoto wrote:
It won't do anything to Olympus's market share. Nikon and Canon already have mirror less cameras. A full frame with it's huge lenses won't attract users away from MFT, who mostly adapted the system because of the low weight and quality that is surprisingly good.

Don't be so sure. It depends on what Canon and Nikon think they need for their FF mirrorless to start with.
Yes, they can go the Sony way, who, when they finally started making some good glass decided to make "the best and fastest" they could thus resulting in humongous lenses.

But what if Nikon and Canon think differently? What if they decide to release their FF mirrorless with slightly slower glass? Say a setup of F2.8 primes?

Yeah one could always argue that m43, for example, would be as light with their F1.4 or F1.7 lenses but that is "only" about a stop faster, even with F1.2 lenses that are fairly big for the system it would "only" make two stops faster and that difference is easily eaten up by the larger sensor in ISO performance meaning the FF system with F2.8 primes would still be light and fast enough to be similar to m43.

One could argue that Olympus has the best vibration reduction in the world, I know some dispute this but it's really no competition, Olympus wins hands down against all other vibration reduction systems in lenses and on sensors but that is only viable when there is no real action in the photo. It will work for landscapes of course, and some creative shots for wildlife and action where one wants to use blur in a creative way but to freeze action one still needs fast shutter speeds.

I know I sound like a hater, but I am not, I am a realist and I try to see it from more then one point of view.

A large sensor camera with slower lenses will still be very small. Look at Sony Zeiss' 35mm F2.8, it's 120 grams. Look at Olympus 17mm F1.8, it's also, exactly, 120 grams. They both give roughly the same field of view. The Olympus is roughly a step faster (a step and a half) but Sony's sensors easily make up for that.

Oct 06, 2017 at 04:34 PM

Wilbus
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p.130 #9 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Or to put my last part of the post in shorter writing.

If any one company decides to put out a FF mirrorless system and not only concentrate on high end, very high speed and heavy lenses but also include high quality F2.8 primes or F4/F5.6 high quality zooms of smaller size m43 may very well be in trouble.

If one can get such a system and have the option of using small F2.8 lenses that weight the same as equivalent m43 lenses and still have the option to go "large and fast" if needed, I am quite sure most people would choose that.

Look at the old Olympus OM system, they had very few lenses faster then F2. Most were F2.8 or slower but that doesn't mean they had to perform poorly.

The problem with slow lenses today is that companies make slow lenses with "bad" optics. What if you could have the optical quality of a Sigma 50mm F1.4 ART in a F2 or F2.8 lens instead? Sure you would give up some speed but would it be worth it for a much smaller lens? And cheaper? Many would say yes, some would own both.

Oct 06, 2017 at 05:05 PM

bobbytan
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p.130 #10 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

In a word ... patent. Canon have their DO lenses and Nikon their PF lenses. But back in the day, Olympus had really compact OM cameras and lenses. Even their f1.2 50/55mm lenses were very small.

Wilbus wrote:
Agree, fast telephoto lenses will still be big and heavy. I'm not sure how the phase fresnel technology works (have to read up on it) but if they can make a 300F4 the size Nikon has, what's stopping them from using the same technology for a 600mm? Or a F2.8 lens? If they can almost half the size of long telephoto lenses and maintain the image quality that will truly revolutionize the industry. Hopefully this could also extend down to smaller sensors.
---------------------------------------------

Oct 06, 2017 at 05:29 PM

ediblestarfish
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p.130 #11 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Wilbus wrote:
Or to put my last part of the post in shorter writing.

If any one company decides to put out a FF mirrorless system and not only concentrate on high end, very high speed and heavy lenses but also include high quality F2.8 primes or F4/F5.6 high quality zooms of smaller size m43 may very well be in trouble.

If one can get such a system and have the option of using small F2.8 lenses that weight the same as equivalent m43 lenses and still have the option to go "large and fast" if needed, I am quite sure most...Show more →

I got out of m4/3 for this very reason. I kept favoring the really fast lenses, which are very expensive, large. Really makes no sense.

On Sony FF, lenses with similar DoF are just very average, small, and cheap (usually). Body isn't really that large.

It's kind of like trading a small sensor with big lenses to compensate, to a large sensor, with small lenses to keep things manageable.

Sony FF, even with 'bad' f2 or f2.8 lenses is still higher quality than m4/3, but other issues like AF performance and lack of weathersealing make the lenses less desireable to use. Also the budget lens lineup is very incomplete for FE, and it may not be filled in anytime soon, even with Sigma bringing in things around 2018 (guessing to be the large ART lens designs reworked).

Eventually I made a compromise and went to Fuji X, which seems to be the only well optimized mirrorless APS-C. Lenses equivalent to the Olympus 25mm f1.2 (my favorite lens) in Fuji X doesn't quite exist, but the closest is quite a bit smaller, a lot cheaper, with similar FL and DOF, but lacking weathersealing (grrr), slow AF. Also no Fuji X has IBIS, which kind of sucks, but I tolerate for photography... video on the other hand... I don't do too much, but I would not pick the Fuji X system for video. But I have my desire for faster lenses satiated, so that feels nice.

A lens like an EFL 85mm f1.8 doesn't really exist in m4/3. I can actually get one in Fuji X like the 56mm F1.2--but again, it hits the problems that I had with m4/3 fast lenses--expensive.

I hate to admit it, but 35mm is probably a good sensor/lens size tradeoff if someone really made an optimized system to address those that want good, reasonably fast or slower primes. Unfortunately, it seems it does not fully exist yet with the Sony FF options. I can only hope some time in the future, Canon or Nikon will start competing.

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:01 PM

bobbytan
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p.130 #12 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

Both Canon and Nikon will be entering the FF mirrorless market next year - they will probably announce it at Photokina. But I don't know how they can make their >500mm lenses smaller and lighter. Even their DO and PF lenses are not all that small or light. If Olympus can get their AF act together, and release more lenses like the 300 PRO, they might be able to carve a very nice niche for themselves in the sports and wildlife market. For sure they can't compete with Sony when it comes to landscape photography.

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:35 PM

birdied
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p.130 #13 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

If Olympus can get their AF act together, and release more lenses like the 300 PRO, they might be able to carve a very nice niche for themselves in the sports and wildlife market. For sure they can't compete with Sony when it comes to landscape photography.

While I wait for Olympus to get their AF act together, I keep trying all the suggestions for A/F improvement.

In-camera focus limiter, really does help. I shoot mainly single point AF-C , but did try 5 and 9 points. Too much foreground and/or close background . Camera kept grabbing something other than the butterfly or hummer.
I would also like to see the ability to select the active point in the 5 and 9 points .

Here are a few of my trials and errors . Still have the issue of many shots not in critical focus. Wish they would work that out as well.

Oct 06, 2017 at 11:33 PM

Wilbus
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p.130 #14 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

bobbytan wrote:
In a word ... patent. Canon have their DO lenses and Nikon their PF lenses. But back in the day, Olympus had really compact OM cameras and lenses. Even their f1.2 50/55mm lenses were very small.

Ops, my bad choice of words and typing late in the evening led to a mixup there. I didn't mean for Olympus to use PF technology but rather that Nikon can use the technology in longer and maybe even faster lenses as well. If Nikon, for example, could half the size of a 500mm or 600mm lens that would be awesome.

I know Olympus can't use the same technology due to patents.

OM lenses were tiny, even the fast ones yes, the entire OM system was amazing. I love my OM1. Best viewfinder in any camera I have used as well.

Oct 07, 2017 at 02:08 AM

Wilbus
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p.130 #15 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

ediblestarfish wrote:
I got out of m4/3 for this very reason. I kept favoring the really fast lenses, which are very expensive, large. Really makes no sense.

On Sony FF, lenses with similar DoF are just very average, small, and cheap (usually). Body isn't really that large.

It's kind of like trading a small sensor with big lenses to compensate, to a large sensor, with small lenses to keep things manageable.

Sony FF, even with 'bad' f2 or f2.8 lenses is still higher quality than m4/3, but other issues like AF performance and lack of weathersealing make the lenses less desireable to use. Also...Show more →

Well, I agree with most of what you say but not that "bad" Sony lenses are higher quality then m43. In fact, I would say it's the other way around. I bought the A7 with the kit zoom and that's the worst lens I have ever had for any system, it was horrible. Sold it within a week to a guy who was gonna use it for video where I am sure it's fine as it doesn't need to resolve as much.

The weather sealing you bring up is a big point for me, in fact, it may very well be a deal breaker. Like I said before, if a system with FF sensor, what ever camera brand, start releasing fast primes but not super fast, think back in the 70's where most fast lenses were around F2.8 and they do this with great optical quality, build quality and weather sealing I think that system would win a lot of people. Sure, I would still want a faster 50mm and maybe an 85mm but all the wide angles would be nice with F2.8.

It's interesting to hear you went to Fuji APS-C. For me APS-C is the "worst" when it comes to compromises. But that's just me. I've had Fuji and like you say, AF was a problem. I also tried other Fuji's and they never felt as snappy as m43 or Nikon for example.

It's great to have so many choices though! If Nikon or Canon pulls of a good FF system I may very well add it, or switch to it.

Oct 07, 2017 at 02:19 AM

Wilbus
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p.130 #16 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

bobbytan wrote:
Both Canon and Nikon will be entering the FF mirrorless market next year - they will probably announce it at Photokina. But I don't know how they can make their >500mm lenses smaller and lighter. Even their DO and PF lenses are not all that small or light. If Olympus can get their AF act together, and release more lenses like the 300 PRO, they might be able to carve a very nice niche for themselves in the sports and wildlife market. For sure they can't compete with Sony when it comes to landscape photography.

Well, that's what I want to know with PF technology Bobby. Would it be possible to bring PF glass, like in the 300F4, in to a 500mm or 600mm lens and make those almost half the size? And maybe also cheaper?
I have no idea, I don't know how it works. I know that PF glass can cause some other optical problems but so far I haven't found anyone who has run into it with the 300F4 PF. Is there any limit to the technology which prevents it to be used with longer glass? Or shorter glass?

If/when Olympus gets their AF fixed it will be a really superb wildlife and hiking/kayaking system. This is the major reason I am with m43 and Olympus. I just can't bring any other system, with the same weather sealed high quality lenses with me on a hike. Or pack them in a kayak and trust that even if I get them wet for a few hours they will still work.

Oct 07, 2017 at 02:24 AM

Wilbus
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p.130 #17 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

@Birdied

Another thought, something I have just quickly (like once) tried with the E-M1 but it might work for you.

The E-M1.2 should be faster with this. Have you tried focus bracketing when insects/hummers come in to the frame and get close to the flower? I was thinking something like a 30-60 shot focus bracket. Most of them would be out of focus but perhaps some would hit?

Just a thought, might be worth a try as the memory space is free

Oct 07, 2017 at 02:26 AM

bobbytan
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p.130 #18 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

That�s a good thought actually ... if you are willing to sieve through a lot of photos ... and I mean a lot! I do something similar when I shoot a bug like a ladybug while hand-holding the camera and holding down the shutter in sequential mode, but instead of focus bracketing I would very gently move or rock backwards and forwards in the hope that I will nail focus on the eye/head area.

But I am usually still disappointed with the results because of the ultra-shallow DOF even if I managed to nail focus. With subjects like that you have to stop down to f8 or f11 ... or better yet, do focus stacking or bracketing.

Wilbus wrote:
@Birdied@@@

Another thought, something I have just quickly (like once) tried with the E-M1 but it might work for you.

The E-M1.2 should be faster with this. Have you tried focus bracketing when insects/hummers come in to the frame and get close to the flower? I was thinking something like a 30-60 shot focus bracket. Most of them would be out of focus but perhaps some would hit?

Just a thought, might be worth a try as the memory space is free

Oct 07, 2017 at 10:16 AM

Bobg657
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p.130 #19 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

So I spent some time agonizing over what SD cards to buy for an upcoming trip, if you're interested in some testing I did here's a link:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4211752

Hope that's helpful,
Bob

Oct 07, 2017 at 08:45 PM

Wilbus
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p.130 #20 · Olympus E-M1 Mk II

While doing a flickr search for the 300mm F4 PRO I came up on this that I thought I might share. A must for anyone interested in m43, Olympus and birds and insects in flight.

I don't know how he does it, I really have no clue but someone he does it and I think it pretty much convinced me of the 300mm F4 although I consider it too pricey.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/14869355@N07/

Oct 10, 2017 at 08:55 AM

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