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Archive 2016Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
p.9 #1Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
I thought it looked better also.
CY35-70 + either OM21 or the CV15 is perfect for my walkabout kit.
CY35-70 + either OM21 or the CV15 is perfect for my walkabout kit.
Apr 21, 2016 at 02:56 PM
p.9 #2Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
DavidBM wrote:
Is it my imagination, or because the material is harder to judge, or does the midfield look a little better in the 50mm crops against the Lox compared with the earlier 50mm crops compared to the GM?
The Loxia 50/2 is better than the GM on these areas and the Contax was neck to neck there. Perhaps I learned how to optimize focus for this lens today. (see my new post)
I am testing against my 70-200/4 at 70mm right now and will see what happens at 70mm (mid-field area).
Is it my imagination, or because the material is harder to judge, or does the midfield look a little better in the 50mm crops against the Lox compared with the earlier 50mm crops compared to the GM?
The Loxia 50/2 is better than the GM on these areas and the Contax was neck to neck there. Perhaps I learned how to optimize focus for this lens today. (see my new post)
I am testing against my 70-200/4 at 70mm right now and will see what happens at 70mm (mid-field area).
Apr 21, 2016 at 03:37 PM
p.9 #3Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Thanks for these tests, Fred.
Which part of the frame do you focus on?
Which part of the frame do you focus on?
Apr 21, 2016 at 03:42 PM
p.9 #4Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
goto_dengo wrote:
Thanks for these tests, Fred.
Which part of the frame do you focus on?
The mountains at infinity but before I tested various apertures, I check a couple things:
1) I manual focus in the center and see where my infinity mark is at f/4. That is true infinity. With my Novoflex is a tad before the hard stop of the lens. it may be different with your adapter.
2) Do the same test at f/5.6 and f/8 to detect any focus shift. Luckily there is none with this lens at all FLs.
3) Test for field curvature: With my lens at true infinity, I focus on the extreme corners and see if focus changes from center. I detected inward field curvature at 35mm and 40mm. The same type as Loxia 21mm. (I will post solution for this later on)
At 50 and 70mm there is still curvature and it changes direction. Pretty complicated design.
I would not consider this an issue as it probably won't show up in real landscape images.
BTW: The 70mm mark is perhaps 65mm of even less. I didn't check the 35mm mark but it could be a little wider than that.
Thanks for these tests, Fred.
Which part of the frame do you focus on?
The mountains at infinity but before I tested various apertures, I check a couple things:
1) I manual focus in the center and see where my infinity mark is at f/4. That is true infinity. With my Novoflex is a tad before the hard stop of the lens. it may be different with your adapter.
2) Do the same test at f/5.6 and f/8 to detect any focus shift. Luckily there is none with this lens at all FLs.
3) Test for field curvature: With my lens at true infinity, I focus on the extreme corners and see if focus changes from center. I detected inward field curvature at 35mm and 40mm. The same type as Loxia 21mm. (I will post solution for this later on)
At 50 and 70mm there is still curvature and it changes direction. Pretty complicated design.
I would not consider this an issue as it probably won't show up in real landscape images.
BTW: The 70mm mark is perhaps 65mm of even less. I didn't check the 35mm mark but it could be a little wider than that.
Apr 21, 2016 at 03:54 PM
p.9 #5Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
I just tested this lens further and here are my results regarding field curvature and optimal focusing.
The settings below will probably work if you use a Novoflex or a high tolerance adapter.
What I learned about the 35-70/3.4 today while testing focusing and resolution:
The settings below will probably work if you use a Novoflex or a high tolerance adapter.
What I learned about the 35-70/3.4 today while testing focusing and resolution:
- 35mm
Center infinity focus: tad after 15m mark (counterclockwise)
Extreme corners focus and mid-field focus: tad before the infinity hard stop (clockwise)
Inward Field curvature. Very similar in shape to Loxia 21mm but to a lesser degree
Solution. Focus in between 15m mark and infinity hard stop (I got even better results from my initial testing with this setting)
- 40mm
Center infinity focus: tad before infinity hard stop. (clockwise)
Extreme corners focus and mid-field focus: a fraction of a tad before the infinity hard stop (clockwise)
I know... "fraction of a tad"...that is way too much to think about but it makes a noticeable difference. Fraction of a tad is what I use for the Loxia 21mm at f/5.6. In the case of the Loxia, corners look best at the infinity hard stop but I rotate a fraction of a tad to give the center area a boost without degrading the corners too much.
Solution. If you want slightly better mid-field/extreme corner areas, just use a fraction of a tad (barely clockwise rotation)
If you want the best center, rotate a tad from the infinity hard stop (clockwise)
- 50mm and 70mm
Here focusing works best with a fraction of a tad for strong center, mid-field and corners
-----------------------------
So summarizing:
This is what I found on my 35-70/3.4 copy using the Novoflex adapter. I just tested with the Kipon adapter and the settings are slightly different.
For my landscape needs, I can accurately focus using the lens markings at infinity without even checking the viewfinder/monitor in the field:- 35mm: In between 15m and infinity hard stop mark
- 40mm: tad before infinity
- 50 and 70mm: a fraction of a tad before infinity
PS: If lighting is changing fast just focus on the MID-FIELD of the frame and you should be fine!! - 35mm: In between 15m and infinity hard stop mark
Apr 21, 2016 at 04:46 PM
p.9 #6Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Great summary and thanks for all that work. Now I just need to wait for an adapter that gives me infinity focus at hard stop. The Raqual arrives tomorrow.
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
Apr 21, 2016 at 04:50 PM
p.9 #7Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
I just tested against my RX1RII (35mm) and they are very similar in field of view. I know the RX1RII is about 32mm (uncorrected) so the 35-70mm should be at 33mm.
I would say it's like a real 33-65mm zoom.
I would say it's like a real 33-65mm zoom.
Apr 21, 2016 at 06:18 PM
p.9 #8Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
rji2goleez wrote:
Great summary and thanks for all that work. Now I just need to wait for an adapter that gives me infinity focus at hard stop. The Raqual arrives tomorrow.
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
It just means where Fred says "focus a tad before infinity hard stop" you focus two tads before infinity hard stop.
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number of samples will focus past infinity, thereby ensuring that almost none fail to get there.
it's not a big deal. Of course if infinity is nowhere near infinity (as with some adapters, and I'm sorry to say many Rokinon lenses - I've had two where infinity is at the 3m mark!) it's a nuisance. But so long as infinity is before the infinity stop, it's only a nuisance.
Great summary and thanks for all that work. Now I just need to wait for an adapter that gives me infinity focus at hard stop. The Raqual arrives tomorrow.
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
It just means where Fred says "focus a tad before infinity hard stop" you focus two tads before infinity hard stop.
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number of samples will focus past infinity, thereby ensuring that almost none fail to get there.
it's not a big deal. Of course if infinity is nowhere near infinity (as with some adapters, and I'm sorry to say many Rokinon lenses - I've had two where infinity is at the 3m mark!) it's a nuisance. But so long as infinity is before the infinity stop, it's only a nuisance.
Apr 21, 2016 at 09:15 PM
p.9 #9Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
DavidBM wrote:
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?It just means where Fred says "focus a tad before infinity hard stop" you focus two tads before infinity hard stop.
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number...Show more →
We'll see what happens with the next adapter. The cheap adapter is more like three or four tads past. If the new adapter gives the same results, I can certainly live with it. But it's easy to try and return if not satisfied!
rji2goleez wrote
Great summary and thanks for all that work. Now I just need to wait for an adapter that gives me infinity focus at hard stop. The Raqual arrives tomorrow.BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number...Show more →
We'll see what happens with the next adapter. The cheap adapter is more like three or four tads past. If the new adapter gives the same results, I can certainly live with it. But it's easy to try and return if not satisfied!
Apr 21, 2016 at 10:06 PM
p.9 #10Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
DavidBM wrote:
BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?It just means where Fred says "focus a tad before infinity hard stop" you focus two tads before infinity hard stop.
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number...Show more →
Yes, the Novoflex does focus past infinity but that could actually be a lens design. That's how the Loxias work. It's just only a tiny, tiny bit past infinity.
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
I'm flocking my adapter tomorrow.
rji2goleez wrote
Great summary and thanks for all that work. Now I just need to wait for an adapter that gives me infinity focus at hard stop. The Raqual arrives tomorrow.BTW - If I get the same results with the Rayqual as with the budget adapter (focus past infinity) what does that mean and is there a fix?
I think even the Novoflex seems to focus a tiny bit past infinity. There has to be some variance in the adapters and indeed in the lenses. If they were engineered so that many samples were at infinity at *exactly* the hard stop, other samples wouldn't be able to get to infinity, which would be a disaster (some cheap adapters out there display this effect).
So even with high tolerances, you need to engineer it so that that a fair number...Show more →
Yes, the Novoflex does focus past infinity but that could actually be a lens design. That's how the Loxias work. It's just only a tiny, tiny bit past infinity.
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
I'm flocking my adapter tomorrow.
Apr 22, 2016 at 12:15 AM
p.9 #11Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
I'll have to do some tests with my Canon FD 35-70mm f4. It's a pretty good lens too in terms of sharpness
Apr 22, 2016 at 12:18 AM
p.9 #12Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
That's amazing. I think I have to give the edges @35mm a closer look once more.
I compared it to the FE 1.8/55 and the FE 1.4/35 in this thread:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1398694/0?keyword=35-70#13294823
The FE 1.4/35 was ahead in the corners, but the 35-70 smoked it in the midframe.
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
That's amazing. I think I have to give the edges @35mm a closer look once more.
I compared it to the FE 1.8/55 and the FE 1.4/35 in this thread:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1398694/0?keyword=35-70#13294823
The FE 1.4/35 was ahead in the corners, but the 35-70 smoked it in the midframe.
Apr 22, 2016 at 12:19 AM
p.9 #13Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Jannik Peters wrote:
That's amazing. I think I have to give the edges @35mm@ a closer look once more.
I compared it to the FE 1.8/55 and the FE 1.4/35 in this thread:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1398694/0?keyword=35-70#13294823
The FE 1.4/35 was ahead in the corners, but the 35-70 smoked it in the midframe.
I'm pretty sure the FE 1.4 is optimized for closer, environmental portrait distances.
When I tested mine for centering at close distances (astnishingly my first and only copy was centered bit close and far) I was truly impressed by its sharpness and contrast at 2m, and have always liked it a lost in the field (f1.6 gives slightly better results on enviro port than wide open).
But infinity images, while fine, aren't much to write home about....
Fred Miranda wrote
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.I compared it to the FE 1.8/55 and the FE 1.4/35 in this thread:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1398694/0?keyword=35-70#13294823
The FE 1.4/35 was ahead in the corners, but the 35-70 smoked it in the midframe.
I'm pretty sure the FE 1.4 is optimized for closer, environmental portrait distances.
When I tested mine for centering at close distances (astnishingly my first and only copy was centered bit close and far) I was truly impressed by its sharpness and contrast at 2m, and have always liked it a lost in the field (f1.6 gives slightly better results on enviro port than wide open).
But infinity images, while fine, aren't much to write home about....
Apr 22, 2016 at 12:57 AM
p.9 #14Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
I'm flocking my adapter tomorrow.
Welcome to the A7R2 + Contax 35-70 club. I this camera and lens were made for each other! The sharpest F8 mid zoom ever.
The next combo you might want to look at is adding a C/Y 100mm 3.5. A tiny lens without an adapter and you can use the same adapter (saving weight). This lens is in the same league (but flares more and its sun stars aren't as nice).
Edited on Apr 22, 2016 at 04:02 AM · View previous versions
Anyway I was checking crops from my RX1RII and 35-70/3.4 at 35mm and can't believe I'm seeing. The Contax is actually slightly better at the extreme edges of the image field at f/8. No lens has done that before including the best native lenses for the E-mount. 35mm at f/8 is excellent. I'm very surprised how much I like this lens.
I'm flocking my adapter tomorrow.
Welcome to the A7R2 + Contax 35-70 club. I this camera and lens were made for each other! The sharpest F8 mid zoom ever.
The next combo you might want to look at is adding a C/Y 100mm 3.5. A tiny lens without an adapter and you can use the same adapter (saving weight). This lens is in the same league (but flares more and its sun stars aren't as nice).
Edited on Apr 22, 2016 at 04:02 AM · View previous versions
Apr 22, 2016 at 01:46 AM
p.9 #15Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
This little lens is really great. Don't forget the close focus mode
1ds2 : April 2007
http://m3.i.pbase.com/g6/63/551663/2/76546963.7DIABgJV.jpg
1ds2 : April 2007
http://m3.i.pbase.com/g6/63/551663/2/76546963.7DIABgJV.jpg
Apr 22, 2016 at 03:02 AM
p.9 #16Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I just tested against my RX1RII (35mm) and they are very similar in field of view. I know the RX1RII is about 32mm (uncorrected) so the 35-70mm should be at 33mm.
I would say it's like a real 33-65mm zoom.
According to Zeiss own papers the effective focal range is 35.7 - 69mm
According to a test of the magazine Progresso Fotografico it's 35.2 - 66.8mm
Sample variation ?.. user error ?. Who cares ?..
I just tested against my RX1RII (35mm) and they are very similar in field of view. I know the RX1RII is about 32mm (uncorrected) so the 35-70mm should be at 33mm.
I would say it's like a real 33-65mm zoom.
According to Zeiss own papers the effective focal range is 35.7 - 69mm
According to a test of the magazine Progresso Fotografico it's 35.2 - 66.8mm
Sample variation ?.. user error ?. Who cares ?..
Apr 22, 2016 at 04:02 AM
p.9 #17Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
Thanks again for the tests Fred. I sold mine about 3 weeks ago and kind of regret it now, but... at the end of the day I do most of my landscape shooting lower than 35mm. Given the Sony (and Canon but less) 16-35s give up a lot of resolution in the 24-35 range, I find having one of the 24-70s important. So I never ended up using this lens.
Chris
Chris
Apr 22, 2016 at 08:35 AM
p.9 #18Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
I'm starting to think that the FE 16-35/4 + C/Y 35-70/3.4 is a great landscape combo. The 16-35 never matches the Contax edges but it's good enough for a ultra wide, especially towards the wider range. It's also more flat field. I will post RX1RII crops later today.
Regarding the real FL, I'm basing it on the lenses I have. It's known that the RX1RII is really a 32mm lens and the Contax framing is very close to it, maybe 33mm. The Loxia 35/2 seems to be a true 35mm and it's narrower than the Contax. At 70mm, we can only compare to other zoom's and it's quite a bit wider than my 24-70/2.8GM and 70-200/4G zoom's at 70mm. My numbers may not be accurate but that's how it compares to the lenses I have.
Regarding the real FL, I'm basing it on the lenses I have. It's known that the RX1RII is really a 32mm lens and the Contax framing is very close to it, maybe 33mm. The Loxia 35/2 seems to be a true 35mm and it's narrower than the Contax. At 70mm, we can only compare to other zoom's and it's quite a bit wider than my 24-70/2.8GM and 70-200/4G zoom's at 70mm. My numbers may not be accurate but that's how it compares to the lenses I have.
Apr 22, 2016 at 09:12 AM
p.9 #19Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
+1 That Fred. The FE 16-35 and the C/Y 35-70 makes a great non-prime landscape combo, especially for travel or hiking. I take this kit with a FE 35mm 2.8 for a on-the-go lens.
For landscape photographer wanting to go full frame these two lenses and a used A7R would make a great combo to start with.
On another note, I converted my old A7 to an IR camera over a year ago and I've found these are also the best two lenses for an IR A7, very little to no flaring.
For landscape photographer wanting to go full frame these two lenses and a used A7R would make a great combo to start with.
On another note, I converted my old A7 to an IR camera over a year ago and I've found these are also the best two lenses for an IR A7, very little to no flaring.
Apr 22, 2016 at 09:48 AM
p.9 #20Contax 35-70 vs 24-70 GM? Ultimate landscape lens?
TakenWild wrote:
+1 That Fred. The FE 16-35 and the C/Y 35-70 makes a great non-prime landscape combo, especially for travel or hiking. I take this kit with a FE 35mm 2.8 for a on-the-go lens.
For landscape photographer wanting to go full frame these two lenses and a used A7R would make a great combo to start with.
On another note, I converted my old A7 to an IR camera over a year ago and I've found these are also the best two lenses for an IR A7, very little to no flaring.
Good to know on the IR. Last year I converted an A6000. Two lenses, two bodies and I'm good to go!
+1 That Fred. The FE 16-35 and the C/Y 35-70 makes a great non-prime landscape combo, especially for travel or hiking. I take this kit with a FE 35mm 2.8 for a on-the-go lens.
For landscape photographer wanting to go full frame these two lenses and a used A7R would make a great combo to start with.
On another note, I converted my old A7 to an IR camera over a year ago and I've found these are also the best two lenses for an IR A7, very little to no flaring.
Good to know on the IR. Last year I converted an A6000. Two lenses, two bodies and I'm good to go!
Apr 22, 2016 at 10:31 AM