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Archive 2016 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5

  
 
P Alesse
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p.2 #1 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


John... what do think of the DR at the lower ISOs?


May 11, 2016 at 07:21 PM
Focus Locus
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p.2 #2 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


I'll bet there isn't time to do a Custom WB in some cases... especially in cheer. I'm not making excuses for Paul, but having had a chance to see a cheer show where there were dedicated photographers up front, here's how I imagine that can happen.

An hour before the competition begins, the house is open. The "curtain lights" are on, making the stage back drop look pretty, while the competition floor remains dark and subdued. As a photographer, one could show up two hours before the show begins, but there is no guaranteeing that the lighting guys will do anything more than warm up the lights half way, before going to house "open" mode.

Then the first team is announced, runs onto the floor, and in 2 minutes, every kid needs to be shot several times with eyes open and face exposed while doing something that reasonably looks like cheering. Then the lights are off, and for 30 seconds there is time to chimp, swap cards, and now the next team is onstage needing to be shot.

Point being, for a pro competitive cheer photographer, there sometimes isn't even a chance to "see" the light before having to make saleable pictures in that light.

Exposure adjustments can be rolled around on the fly from frame to frame, and so can Kelvin. But Custom WB? As in shooting a grey card placed on stage? Ok, so where do you put that card, when stage left is 2 stops dimmer than stage right, with a 300 kelvin difference in temp due to the lamp age difference in the truss? Or upstage is different than down stage? Or up in the air is different than down on the mat?

At best, a kelvin temp is chosen, based on years of experience looking at what type and technology of light fixtures are hung, and how many of them are up there, and where and how they are pointed. In the first few frames, that best guess is fine tuned to provide the least of all evils, averaging every area of the stage as well as the air space above the stage where the flyers live, and then call it good, so that there is color consistency across all shots taken that the parents wade through on the view stations.

An Expo Disc could be used, but during the time spent dorking with an Expo disc in competition light, another $100 could have been made by shooting kids instead of Tupperware lids.

And even if a photographer broke down, buried their ego of being able to "handle it" on their own like a professional, and went over to the lighting guy and asked that the lights be turned on during a break to competition level temporarily just for purposes of creating a custom balance, thereby "breaking the proscenium arch" so to speak, violating the theatrical mystic experienced by the patrons, there STILL may be a variance from the Custom WB set, because the lighting board operator doesn't always move the slider up to the same level of power from team to team. It sort of depends on what YouTube video he or she is watching during the competition, as to how much attention they pay to what they are supposed to be doing.

Then, there are also lighting looks that vary on the fly... it is kind of trite, but believe it or not, some lighting designers will have green lights when a green uniform enters the stage, and then red lights when a red uniform enters the stage, and so on. In these cases, what would the value of a Custom white balance serve?

I'm actually asking... not arguing against. If there is an efficient way to get better color on the fly, beyond rolling kelvin around and bumping a click here and there on the color graph, I'd like to know how.



May 11, 2016 at 07:26 PM
P Alesse
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p.2 #3 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


Ha! Now, that pretty much sums up a typical cheer shoot.




May 11, 2016 at 07:38 PM
mikeinctown
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p.2 #4 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


Focus, a couple things to make note of; those photographers are hired by the event owners and normaly do have an opportunity to get set up before hand. this isn't like a professional basketball game where all the lights aren't on or they have different stuff going on and cannot work with the staff on hand. Also, after every x number of teams you usually have a break so that the judges scores can get figured out and the winners from a given pool are tabulated and announced. So even if the person wasn't able to set their custom functions at the start, they would have a chance to do it within the next half hour or hour. Last, the lighting and backdrops are normally used at every event by a certain organization. They don't just come up with different stuff for every event. So even where you have the events in different venues, the actual stage lighting is either pretty similar or the same.

Where there is one problem is that sometimes they have the tumbling surface almost at ground level, and sometimes it is actualy raised up 3-4' which provides a completely different perspective and a problem bacause you are now sometimes looking into the lighting depending on the shot. I ran into this the last time. For some reason they had all the seating at floor level and the stage raised up. For every previous event, there were bleachers of some sort and the stage was near ground level, which allowed the parents/friends to get a much better view.

End of the day, you can often throw the skin tone appearance out the window because these girls, no matter how young have a TON of cosmetics on and look unrealistic to start with.



May 12, 2016 at 07:54 AM
mongoose777
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p.2 #5 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


mikeinctown wrote:
Focus, a couple things to make note of; those photographers are hired by the event owners and normaly do have an opportunity to get set up before hand. this isn't like a professional basketball game where all the lights aren't on or they have different stuff going on and cannot work with the staff on hand. Also, after every x number of teams you usually have a break so that the judges scores can get figured out and the winners from a given pool are tabulated and announced. So even if the person wasn't able to set their custom functions
...Show more

Mike,

You are correct, but there are other issues that should be discussed.
The light guys are not always the same from stage to stage and from venue to venue.
Even though I see some of the same guys from time to time, they still always seem to have the lighting either too dark at the edges and sometimes to bright in the center. At times the lighting is not consistent from eye level to the basket toss as they reach up towards the lights, causing the back stage lights to wash out some of the shots.
We constantly make adjustments with Kelvin, ISO & shutter until we get the settings correct and then we communicate with the other photogs about the changes & settings.
Breaks usually don't come until 2 to 3 hours once they start and in many cases you only have 15 sec to change cards before the next team is already hitting the floor.
Ive done enough cheer in my day to have a strong idea what the Kelvin and other setting should be, but we usually
have to improvise while shooting, this usually takes the first team to get it right, but in some stages, it may take a couple of teams to get there.
At Worlds this year, we had the lead photogs at each stage write down the settings for Canon & or Nikon for the next set of photogs the following day to keep everything consistant.

Pro and college events at least have consistent lighting and are almost always the same so I pretty much already know what the settings are before hand because I have been to many of the same stadiums or Sports centers for the past 12 years.




May 16, 2016 at 03:38 AM
mongoose777
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p.2 #6 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


P Alesse wrote:
John... what do think of the DR at the lower ISOs?


Hey Paul,

I just traded for a D5 and will be testing it out for a College Baseball game on tuesday.
I still have my (2) D4s and will probably use one of them with the 200-400 vr2 and keep the D5 on my 400FL.
Any suggestions on the D5 settings for baseball?
Did you get the XQD or the CF version?
I got the CF version, but may change it for the XQD since I have several of both.
Thanks



May 16, 2016 at 03:44 AM
John Skinner
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p.2 #7 · More Real Shoot Examples from D5


P Alesse wrote:
John... what do think of the DR at the lower ISOs?


This is not a neighborhood in which I live.. I've not shot below 1200?... Almost since I started shaving.

IMHO, a D5 is not a low ISO user. It's like any of the other D(X) models Nikon has produced since 2001. But the DR on the body I had (despite being pre-production) was... remarkably.. unremarkable. And in that I mean, I saw no flaws or whammys.. it was just like it's always been on a RAW file. I just noticed a good amount of leeway on any shots taken.



May 16, 2016 at 08:05 PM
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