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Archive 2016 · Help converting this lens.

  
 
campy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help converting this lens.


I am in the process of helping a friend sell her grandfathers camera gear from back from the early 1900's and later. This particular lens is interesting because it's a double convertible and is considered a very good lens and I was looking to see if I can use it on a Sony A7II. Since it's a barrel lens I will have to put it on a focusing helicoid but the size is around 43,44 or 45 mm's. I only could measure it with a mm ruler so I can't tell for sure. I know of 42mm helicoids and I think I saw a 43mm but I don't want to buy one unless I know for sure. I also assume I could adapt it to a bellows and use it but seems too bulky. Any ideas on a good solution or a focusing helicoid that would work?



























Mar 13, 2016 at 07:39 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help converting this lens.


Well, they're 290mm and 350mm lenses, so you'd need to build a rather large extension for them, but I'd imagine the way to go is to get a bellows for it. People far more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly for much more detailed information, I'd imagine.


Mar 13, 2016 at 09:05 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help converting this lens.


Are you sure that is a camera lens and not an repro or enlarging lens? Not that it couldn't be made to work on a camera.

There wouldn't be a simple way to configure for focusing on small format camera, other than using a long bellows (maybe check medium format copying systems), or a 4x5 camera with long bellows extension and rear mounting for camera body. You'll need a bellows for such long lengths (around 400mm). If you had a stable of vintage lenses you wanted to re-purpose for use with digital camera, that might be feasible, but for one lens it is probably prohibitive in time and money.

Maybe someone else will have an idea.

Good luck!



Edited on Mar 13, 2016 at 09:50 AM · View previous versions



Mar 13, 2016 at 09:47 AM
Javier Munoz
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help converting this lens.


Dont know much about adapting the lens but I would certainly take a good look at the oil in the blades...


Mar 13, 2016 at 09:48 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help converting this lens.


Here's a couple references that cast light on the use of these lenses. Apparently the lenses can be used individually or stacked for closer focus?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?71800-Protar-lenses
http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00aMOm
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?11581-Zeiss-Protar-Lenses

Definitely looks like using a view camera would work best, especially a large one to take advantage of the huge image circles! 8"x10" would be petite!




Mar 13, 2016 at 09:59 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help converting this lens.


Why not put the helicoid on the camera end rather than the lens end? Then it doesn't matter too much what the thread on the lens is (as it will need to be custom made) ie start with an EF-M42 adapter, then an M42-M42 (or M42-M52 as mentioned in another thread), then the fixed barrel between the helicoid and lens you'll have to have made up to get to infinity.

The longest M42-M52 I've seen from a quick ebay search was 35-90mm, so only 4.5cm of adjustment. Not very much on 29cm and 35cm lenses. You'll need pretty high precision flanges on the barrel you'll need to get made up so that the lens isn't skewed, and the inside of the whole affair will need flocking to prevent reflections and flare.



Mar 13, 2016 at 10:12 AM
campy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help converting this lens.


My understanding is when both elements are used together it's a 180mm and using one of them it's either 290 or 350.


Mar 13, 2016 at 10:52 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help converting this lens.


I agree with Jordan and Jim that putting it on a bellows system would make good sense. These lenses are probably not telephotos, and so the film to flange (sensor to lens-mount) distance would be just about equal to their focal lengths at infinity focus; IOW, 290mm and 350mm. That's pretty long. The maximum f2f distance on my medium format Mamiya 645 Auto Bellows N is about 255mm, including the M645 to EOS to X-mount adapters that I used for the examples below. It's easy enough to get a lens board with an extension on it, which is like a tube that lets you mount the lens out front of the lens board.

I attached a few photos of a Schneider-K Xenar 180/4.5 lens on the Auto Bellows N with Fujifilm X-E2, which has about the same register as the A7II. This is the longest f2f lens that I use on the Auto Bellows N (although not the longest focal length). In order to focus on closer subjects, you have to increase the bellows length, and in order to use "movements" (e.g. tilt, shift, swing, drop, ...) you can't have the bellows stretched all of the way out, or it won't bend. I'll illustrate this with a few photos, below.

The first example photo is taken by the S-K 180/4.5 on X-E2 at f/11, and more-or-less infinity focus. The second photo shows the bellows extension used for this photo, with a ruler to show the extension is about 180mm (I had to run around one of the strobes to hold the ruler in place - you get what you pay for).

The third photo shows the bellows at an intermediate extension with some typical movements, and the last photo shows an image taken by the S-K 180/3.4 on X-E2 at f/11, and at the maximum bellows extension of 255mm (which would look just like the first photo of the bellows, but with the camera "stretched back" to 25cm on the ruler). The magnification for this photo is about 1:2.4, or a bit smaller than half life-size. I could get higher magnification by using a longer bellows and focus rail (it's at max bellows extension and max focus rail movements), or by attatching an extension lens board at the front.

IOW, you'll need a fairly long bellows to make use of these 290mm and 350mm lenses, but it certainly can be done.

P.S. if the combined lenses are at 180mm, then you could use the Auto Bellows N system with the same extansions as shown in my examples, but you'd need a sky crane to support those lenses hanging off the front of the lens board.



© jcolwell 2016


Example photo S-K 180/4.5 on X-E2 at f/11 and infinity focus





© jcolwell 2016


Bellows extension for example photo (above)





© jcolwell 2016


Typical movements at intermediate bellows extension





© jcolwell 2016


Close-up photo S-K 180/4.5 on X-E2 at f/11 [1:2.4], at maximum bellows extension




Mar 13, 2016 at 11:02 AM
campy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Help converting this lens.


It appears to be too much expense and trouble just see how the pictures come out.


Mar 13, 2016 at 11:55 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Help converting this lens.


campy wrote:
It appears to be too much expense and trouble just see how the pictures come out.


You could duct tape a lens to an appropriate length of ABS pipe and hold it on the front of your camera.



Mar 13, 2016 at 05:57 PM
campy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Help converting this lens.


jcolwell wrote:
You could duct tape a lens to an appropriate length of ABS pipe and hold it on the front of a DSLR.


That maybe worth a try.



Mar 13, 2016 at 06:55 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Help converting this lens.


Cool. I edited the post while you were quoting it. My post shows the new text and your post shows the previous version, yet my post doesn't have the dreaded "Edited on..." disclaimer.

It is an auspicious evening, indeed.



Mar 13, 2016 at 07:03 PM





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