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Archive 2016 · 1D XII hit the market?

  
 
arbitrage
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p.5 #1 · 1D XII hit the market?


JaimitoFrog wrote:
the second video I posted above said it will be released end of this month, March. That's what my dealer had said last month, but I didn't believe her.


Anything is possible. I usually rely on B&H's listing for the most accurate date and all it says is April. Where as there 80D listing gives a precise Mar 27th date. Could be April 1st or April 30th. Most people were hearing late April but maybe they do have them ready to go in a few weeks.



Mar 17, 2016 at 08:38 PM
ggreene
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p.5 #2 · 1D XII hit the market?


JaimitoFrog wrote:
Any issues with 1DX? I had none with 5DSR, 5D3, 5D2, 5D, 20D, XTi.


1DX had it's own recall for the lubrication issue. Mine was in the list to be recalled and they had to replace the mirror box assembly as it was affecting AF speed. If you read the Sports Shooters forum there was also quite a few 1DX's with lockups that needed circuit boards replaced. Great camera but not without it's own set of teething problems.

My 7D2 has been a disaster from an AF tracking consistency standpoint. I am dumping it soon along with some lenses to free up cash for a potential 1DX2 if I see a large enough gap in high ISO between it and the 1DX. If that gap is not there I'll see what a 5D4 is like.

1D3 fiasco speaks for itself.

Original 1D2's had a round of AF issues (I had two of them) and Canon released a 1D2N.

The typical use for these types of cameras just put an incredible strain on AF tracking performance. The margin of error is very slim. I don't expect problems with a 1DX2 but history shows there probably will be some glitch that will show up when a larger set of photographers start hammering away on them.



Mar 17, 2016 at 09:23 PM
dehowie
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p.5 #3 · 1D XII hit the market?


ggreene wrote:
Canon is delusional if they think a small number of paid off photographers will get them good rep. It's seen for what it is and that is 100% marketing. Sadly, I don't see any Rob Galbraiths out there anymore. Most of those "eligible" photographers are more interested in keeping their "special preview" status then giving a totally objective view.


More than happy we don't have Galbraith anymore.
Let's see.
Test the AF system on a camera.
We don't...release our testing methodology.
We don't...release the AF settings we used.
We don't...compare our results with comparative bodies or previous bodies to show exactly how it performs in comparison as a basis for conclusions.
When tested head to head with the competitions body the D3 the 1DMk3 is found to be far more accurate yet nothing by Galbraith is ever written about inconsistent tracking of that camera.
We don't acknowledge any criticism of our testing or his knowledge or lack with the significant changes in the AF system from the 1DMk2n.
The 1DsMk3 with the same AF module is still widely used and acknowledged as an excellent body.

In short we can all do without Galbraiths and testing which was inconsistent, biased and clearly agenda driven.





Mar 18, 2016 at 01:09 AM
Chetan Kulkarn
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p.5 #4 · 1D XII hit the market?


SR777 wrote:
This gentleman got a 1DX2 today in India. He said it is a 'sample' though neither the box nor the body seem to have anything suggesting 'sample'. He is or used to be a Canon brand ambassador. I don't know him beyond what I have seen on his web site.
http://www.sudhirshivaram.com/


He has got a preproduction version for testing. That is what he mentioned on his Facebook Live session.




Mar 18, 2016 at 01:28 AM
PetKal
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p.5 #5 · 1D XII hit the market?


I agree with GG's post above: we should be cautious about any new EOS cameras, particularly 1DXII at its exorbitant price.

We need to understand that many of 1DXII important "specifications" describe the camera's architecture, and NOT ITS PERFORMANCE. For example, Canon say the camera has so many cross AF points, and they might mention that the AF algorithm is performed by its dedicated Digic 87 CPU. Fine, we can sort of verify that, if we've got nothing more useful to do with our time, but what do such architecture specs tell us about the AF performance ? NOTHING ! NADA ! That is where the difficulty arises when dealing with suspect underperformance of your camera. If the performance spec doesn't exist, then how can you possibly show to Canon that your camera doesn't meet such (non-existent) specs ? Then your camera warranty claim becomes based on your subjective performance assessment, and perhaps you might reach an agreement with Canon as to what constitutes a reasonable performance warranty claim. However, Canon might also tell you that the camera meets their AF performance specifications, sorry pal, yet they would not reveal what those specifications are. Such unfortunate development of events might lead you to realize that your camera warranty is of limited value to you.

The systemic (design) underperformance of a new camera, particularly when it comes to Servo AF, is difficult to detect, let alone quantify, for the following reasons:
(1) The standard test methodology available to camera users does not exist.
(2) The pre-release reviews of new cameras is done by photographers whose business is to promote Canon's products. Those are the only folks to get pre-release cameras, right ? Giving such cameras to Nikon "ambassadors" to test and publish their findings would be a dumb marketing move by Canon, right ?
(3) Many camera users are in a poor position to assess the camera performance such as ServoAF/tracking because they either do not challenge that feature (e.g. landscape shooters), or they are lacking experience/aptitude to be able to make such assessment. In other words, their cameras may not work right, but people are not aware of it, or they think the problems they see here and there are due to user errors, or some such cause external to the camera.
Many may also believe that a flagship pro camera priced at $6,000 must be perfect a priori, so they are biased against seeing any under-performance, or again, they try to reason it away by attributing it to diverse external causes.

Lastly, there is another relatively common limitation with initial gear assessments, the results of which we see on this forum quite often : some people are primarily driven to show off their photography skill, such as it is, by posting a few of their best keeper shots in their reviews, instead of attempting an objective analysis, warts and all, as the first and foremost consideration.



Mar 18, 2016 at 06:20 AM
willis
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p.5 #6 · 1D XII hit the market?


I'd agree with all your points but Canon seems to have got the AF right with it's recent cameras (I won't deny there have been some bad examples too). Fundamentally all the cameras I've tried since the 5DIII have focused as well as I would dare to hope (the 1DIV was just a smidge behind the latest crop). I cant see Canon risking another 1DIII style fiasco. The 1DXII may have a slight learning curve but it's an evolution of the 1DX and I think a a fundamentally flawed AF system is very unlikely, though it obviously may perform better in some scenarios than others.
DOI:1DXII on order and very excited about the increasingly encouraging news on the sensor performance of the latest Canons.



Mar 18, 2016 at 08:54 AM
Cliff L.
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p.5 #7 · 1D XII hit the market?


dehowie wrote:
In short we can all do without Galbraiths and testing which was inconsistent, biased and clearly agenda driven.



It did manage to whip up a lot of internet hysteria, though.

My 1D III performed flawlessly, and everyone I know (except Rob G.) who owned one had pretty much the same experience as me. However, I also know a lot of people who never owned or even used the camera but were constantly chirping about how bad the AF was.



Mar 18, 2016 at 09:08 AM
rscheffler
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p.5 #8 · 1D XII hit the market?


rabbitmountain wrote:
It is good to keep in mind that the first batches will be small in numbers and pushed quickly to the most eligible photographers, so Canon can get some good rep on the 1Dx2, as has been said above.

ggreene wrote:
Canon is delusional if they think a small number of paid off photographers will get them good rep. It's seen for what it is and that is 100% marketing. Sadly, I don't see any Rob Galbraiths out there anymore. Most of those "eligible" photographers are more interested in keeping their "special preview" status then giving a totally objective view.

dehowie wrote:
More than happy we don't have Galbraith anymore.
Let's see.
Test the AF system on a camera.
We don't...release our testing methodology.
We don't...release the AF settings we used.
We don't...compare our results with comparative bodies or previous bodies to show exactly how it performs in comparison as a basis for conclusions.
When tested head to head with the competitions body the D3 the 1DMk3 is found to be far more accurate yet nothing by Galbraith is ever written about inconsistent tracking of that camera.
We don't acknowledge any criticism of our testing or his knowledge or lack with the significant changes in the AF system from
...Show more

Sorry, completely disagree.

Having done some equipment testing myself and being the focus of worldwide internet attention for a short while, my takeaway is you'll never satisfy everyone no matter what you do. In my case it was shooting about 20 rangefinder lenses on the just announced Sony a7 camera and being one of the first to confirm prerelease speculation that many rangefinder lenses would suffer image degradation problems in the peripheral zone due to the design of the Sony sensor stack/toppings.... A problem that resulted in at least one business addressing this as a custom mod - Kolari Vision's thin glass replacement service.

Back to Galbraith - I read his 1DIII reports, was skeptical enough that it was a preproduction fluke and ordered two of them anyway. I ended up experiencing the exact same AF performance problems he reported. The cameras were serviced during the recalls but IME were never reliable during sunny day, warm weather field sport situations. AF was inconsistent, hopping around in front and behind subjects during sequences. Funny thing was, as soon as it went overcast or it was an evening event with the sun lower on the horizon, AF was better. The cameras were generally good indoors and at night events. But still never super consistent, which meant I had to overshoot everything just to be sure I would have something. They even required different degrees of MFA depending on the predominant type of light source, whether daylight, tungsten, fluorescent... (IIRC from the 1DIV on, there's a sensor in the camera that determines the light source quality and makes on-the-fly compensation to the AF system).

1DIV was OK but not revolutionary improvement.

1DX IMO was a significant jump. My copy is a very early one and it has generally been solid. I'm not expecting there to be problems with the 1DXII, but will hold off until late summer when I will most likely want to get one. Should allow for some bugs to be worked out and for a broader range of real-world feedback.

Just want to add that while a lot of guys jumped to Nikon with the D3 at the time of the 1DIII problem, I stuck it out with Canon knowing (hoping) that it should be fixed in the next release 18-24 months down the road. Which it generally was. The 1DIII era was also the point when Canon Canada (and I guess USA) substantially revamped their CPS programs. Their support through this period was a significant factor why I still shoot Canon. Subsequent to the 1DIII problem, Canon has been much, much more proactive at addressing problems that crop up and fixing them relatively quickly. Meanwhile I think Nikon has gone through a few situations where they were initially silent but eventually forced to admit problems and offer fixes...

This leads me to believe that should there be glitches with the 1DXII, Canon will address them quickly.



Mar 18, 2016 at 11:43 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.5 #9 · 1D XII hit the market?


Hmmm...this is the first time I preordered any type of gear, but I think after reading the above I will cancel and just wait a couple of months for some solid field reports. I don't need the camera right now and they will probably become available abundantly in the fall.


Mar 18, 2016 at 04:37 PM
ggreene
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p.5 #10 · 1D XII hit the market?


That's what I did with my 1DX purchase. Got it in early September ahead of the indoor sports season when I really need it. By early September Canon had also released the FW that gave us the illuminated AF point kluge that they came up with.


Mar 18, 2016 at 06:39 PM
Gust
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p.5 #11 · 1D XII hit the market?


ggreene wrote:
That's what I did with my 1DX purchase. Got it in early September ahead of the indoor sports season when I really need it. By early September Canon had also released the FW that gave us the illuminated AF point kluge that they came up with.


I had 2 from First batch in 2012.
Never had à problem.



Mar 19, 2016 at 02:25 PM
dehowie
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p.5 #12 · 1D XII hit the market?


rscheffler wrote:
Sorry, completely disagree.

Back to Galbraith - I read his 1DIII reports, was skeptical enough that it was a preproduction fluke and ordered two of them anyway. I ended up experiencing the exact same AF performance problems he reported. The cameras were serviced during the recalls but IME were never reliable during sunny day, warm weather field sport situations. AF was inconsistent, hopping around in front and behind subjects during sequences. Funny thing was, as soon as it went overcast or it was an evening event with the sun lower on the horizon, AF was better. The cameras were generally
...Show more

Fully agree that should there be any problems the track record over the last 7-8 years has been excellent.
Re Galbraith..regardless of the cameras performance it was his clearly based agenda which was the problem.
When tested head to head with the D3 in the same scenario it was IIRC over 30% more accurate in tracking scenarios he was criticising it for.
My mates using the D3 to shoot low vis grey fighter aircraft where pulling their hair out wondering what the Canon guys where whining about.
Getting 1-2 out of every ten frames with the D3 while we got 5-6 which was good compared to a Mk2n.
This continued on into the D3S and the D4 still has hangover from the AF issues in those bodies.
Yet all we read about was Galbraith and his biased one eyed testing that very effectively generated a huge amount of net hype.
Given the AF module in the Mk3 was entirely different from anything previous numerous issues where caused to guys using old strategies with a new body.
One thing Canon learnt was to publish an AF settings guide to ensure people who don't read manuals but simply complain first could be pointed in the right direction to "learn" how the system is designed to work not how they "think" it should work.
Lessons learnt by many.
Both mine worked as well.
http://www.vortexaviationphotography.com/Other/Webposting/i-kGdz2z3/2/L/kite6-L.jpg
http://www.vortexaviationphotography.com/Other/Webposting/i-s6BX9LN/13/XL/seagull-XL.jpg
Quite amused at the "paranoia" some people are showing for this camera given the quality of images we have already seen.
By quality I mean shot in tough conditions and limited opportuniries whereby if the camera missed you had lost the shot forever.
One chance that is all.
The 1Dx Mk2 has already demonstrated it can get great shots in those conditions. All the talk in the world doesn't mean anything when those one chance only shots exist and get captured. Its ot like Canon has the influence to get the NFL to force a retake of a 4th down or touchdown pass because one of the two cameras missed the shot...







Mar 19, 2016 at 09:39 PM
lite25e
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p.5 #13 · 1D XII hit the market?


FYI - Adorama, B&H and Amazon.com are now all saying that the 1d X Mark II will ship on 5/1/16. I think that is a slip of only a week, as I think the prior date was 4/25/16.


Mar 22, 2016 at 04:15 PM
ggreene
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p.5 #14 · 1D XII hit the market?


dehowie wrote:
Re Galbraith..regardless of the cameras performance it was his clearly based agenda which was the problem.


This was not a Galbraith made up problem. Canon recalled a large number of bodies for a hardware fix and they released multiple FW updates trying to resolve the issue even after the recall. There were a lot of sports shooters complaining about it at the time. It was a huge embarrassment for Canon to have their flagship camera in their highest profile field (sports) so ridiculed. Even after all they tried to do a lot photographers never trusted that body again. I think Canon got sloppy with their QC and they paid for it with bad PR. That is the lesson learned.



Mar 22, 2016 at 10:21 PM
niani.gil
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p.5 #15 · 1D XII hit the market?


I have mine pre-ordered. I was at Vistek today for something else. They told me it is likely April 1. But soon followed by saying "shipping" dont know when it will reach.


Mar 22, 2016 at 11:07 PM
MedicineMan404
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p.5 #16 · 1D XII hit the market?


It can slip a month if it means it's right out of the box. Post market fixes and constant FW updates
will only frustrate.



Mar 22, 2016 at 11:11 PM
JaimitoFrog
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p.5 #17 · 1D XII hit the market?


Another unboxing of a sample. Other than the sticker, looks production, hardware wise.




Mar 26, 2016 at 01:07 AM
Gust
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p.5 #18 · 1D XII hit the market?


https://translate.google.co.in/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcanon.jp&edit-text=&act=url

bad news on a Japanese site

It will be released EOS-1D X Mark II 4 late May



Mar 27, 2016 at 06:18 AM
JaimitoFrog
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p.5 #19 · 1D XII hit the market?


Gust wrote:
https://translate.google.co.in/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcanon.jp&edit-text=&act=url

bad news on a Japanese site

It will be released EOS-1D X Mark II 4 late May


The translation engine sucks. If you look at the original Japanese website, it says late half of April. I can read Japanese, apparently Google cannot.

Edited on Mar 27, 2016 at 07:15 PM · View previous versions



Mar 27, 2016 at 05:24 PM
JaimitoFrog
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p.5 #20 · 1D XII hit the market?


The Japanese camera store Yodobashi also has it listed 2nd half of April.
http://www.yodobashi.com/%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A4%E3%83%8E%E3%83%B3-CANON-EOS-1D-X-MarkII-%E3%83%9C%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3-35mm%E3%83%95%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B5%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BA/pd/100000001003011551/



Mar 27, 2016 at 05:27 PM
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