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Archive 201690mm MF Alt for A7?
p.1 #190mm MF Alt for A7?
Having let my ZE 100/2 go with my 5DII, I'm now feeling withdrawal symptoms,(lens-wise that is, I love the A7), so I'm assessing some 85 -100mms for my A7 and realise I haven't a clue about the apparently wide range of Leica 90mms, both M and R.
I'm wanting it especially for good wide open performance for the type of shot below (with ZE 100/2)
November Wood by Tim Ball, on Flickr
I toyed with the idea of getting a ZF 100/2, as I loved that pencil thin line of sharpness with rapid fall off to smooth bokeh, and the rich colouring, but on the A7, 680g + adapter is very front heavy (and it's so expensive, as is the FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G OSS)
So far I've gathered (for comparison/assessment), a Tokina 90/2.5 "Bokina", Tamron SP 90/2.8 (72B), and PK 85/1.8, (though, wide open it glows A LOT)
I also have an OM 100/2, but close, its performance drops, so I'd also love to try an OM Zuiko 90/2.
....but what about Leica? There seem to be a plethora of their 90mms about?? (The Leica APO Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8 (E60) is 100g more than the Zeiss, so I've dismissed it). I want close focus but don't need macro. How would they compare with the above? Please be specific with version, as there seem to be so many. Also I'm not made of money, Leica usually being out of my range.
I'm wanting it especially for good wide open performance for the type of shot below (with ZE 100/2)
November Wood by Tim Ball, on FlickrI toyed with the idea of getting a ZF 100/2, as I loved that pencil thin line of sharpness with rapid fall off to smooth bokeh, and the rich colouring, but on the A7, 680g + adapter is very front heavy (and it's so expensive, as is the FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G OSS)
So far I've gathered (for comparison/assessment), a Tokina 90/2.5 "Bokina", Tamron SP 90/2.8 (72B), and PK 85/1.8, (though, wide open it glows A LOT)
I also have an OM 100/2, but close, its performance drops, so I'd also love to try an OM Zuiko 90/2.
....but what about Leica? There seem to be a plethora of their 90mms about?? (The Leica APO Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8 (E60) is 100g more than the Zeiss, so I've dismissed it). I want close focus but don't need macro. How would they compare with the above? Please be specific with version, as there seem to be so many. Also I'm not made of money, Leica usually being out of my range.
Feb 06, 2016 at 08:03 AM
p.1 #290mm MF Alt for A7?
IMO, the value-for-money champs in this space are the Contax G90, the Sony A-mount 85/2.8, and the Bokina. The Leica lenses are either older (and not as good as the three aforementioned), or more expensive.
Feb 06, 2016 at 09:57 AM
p.1 #390mm MF Alt for A7?
alwang wrote:
IMO, the value-for-money champs in this space are the Contax G90, the Sony A-mount 85/2.8, and the Bokina. The Leica lenses are either older (and not as good as the three aforementioned), or more expensive.
Thanks alwang. I know that the ergonomics of the G90 would drive me crazy, but I believe the C/Y 85/2.8 is a very similar design and performance? The A mount 85/2.8 probably won't handle manual focus as smoothly/nicely as a MF designed lens either?
IMO, the value-for-money champs in this space are the Contax G90, the Sony A-mount 85/2.8, and the Bokina. The Leica lenses are either older (and not as good as the three aforementioned), or more expensive.
Thanks alwang. I know that the ergonomics of the G90 would drive me crazy, but I believe the C/Y 85/2.8 is a very similar design and performance? The A mount 85/2.8 probably won't handle manual focus as smoothly/nicely as a MF designed lens either?
Feb 06, 2016 at 10:02 AM
p.1 #490mm MF Alt for A7?
Canon 90/2.8 TSE lens. Works very well on the A7 series and allows you tilt/shift when needed.
Feb 06, 2016 at 10:37 AM
p.1 #590mm MF Alt for A7?
i vote fot the Zeiss C/Y 85mm 2.8
great lens for not thaaaat much money.
great lens for not thaaaat much money.
Feb 06, 2016 at 11:15 AM
p.1 #690mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
....but what about Leica? There seem to be a plethora of their 90mms about?? (The Leica APO Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8 (E60) is 100g more than the Zeiss, so I've dismissed it). I want close focus but don't need macro. How would they compare with the above? Please be specific with version, as there seem to be so many. Also I'm not made of money, Leica usually being out of my range.
Sorry not being able to actually help with your Leica question, but I can tell that for what you are looking you will waste your money on Leica Elmarit-R or Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8. I have both, have had 90mm +10 years and 2015 got M-version as well. Great lenses, but they start to "sing" f/4 or f/5.6 and excel on other stuff what you are looking for.
I haven't yet tried Summicrons (=f/2 lenses), but based on photos I have seen on Leica threads in past 10 years the Summicron (=f/2) model without APO is not for me and I doubt it's what you are looking for either based on your requirements. I would like to experience 90mm APO, but they are damn expensive.
Contax G90 is pretty good wide open on qualities you are looking for, but ergonomics are awful and for top performance you need to work with adapter to avoid sensor chamber reflections.
Contax C/Ys 2.8/85 and 3.5/100 are both pretty good wide open. I have had both and I strongly prefer the 100mm, but 85mm is smaller size and pretty good as well. Naturally any of the f/2.8 (or 3.5) lenses can't have same subject and back-/foreground separation, what your Z-series MP 100 had.
Samuli
....but what about Leica? There seem to be a plethora of their 90mms about?? (The Leica APO Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8 (E60) is 100g more than the Zeiss, so I've dismissed it). I want close focus but don't need macro. How would they compare with the above? Please be specific with version, as there seem to be so many. Also I'm not made of money, Leica usually being out of my range.
Sorry not being able to actually help with your Leica question, but I can tell that for what you are looking you will waste your money on Leica Elmarit-R or Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8. I have both, have had 90mm +10 years and 2015 got M-version as well. Great lenses, but they start to "sing" f/4 or f/5.6 and excel on other stuff what you are looking for.
I haven't yet tried Summicrons (=f/2 lenses), but based on photos I have seen on Leica threads in past 10 years the Summicron (=f/2) model without APO is not for me and I doubt it's what you are looking for either based on your requirements. I would like to experience 90mm APO, but they are damn expensive.
Contax G90 is pretty good wide open on qualities you are looking for, but ergonomics are awful and for top performance you need to work with adapter to avoid sensor chamber reflections.
Contax C/Ys 2.8/85 and 3.5/100 are both pretty good wide open. I have had both and I strongly prefer the 100mm, but 85mm is smaller size and pretty good as well. Naturally any of the f/2.8 (or 3.5) lenses can't have same subject and back-/foreground separation, what your Z-series MP 100 had.
Samuli
Feb 06, 2016 at 11:48 AM
p.1 #790mm MF Alt for A7?
I have a Leica 90mm Summicron (the Pre-APO version) and for what I paid I am plenty happy with the performance of it. It is more of a portrait lens I'm sure, but wide open it just has this sort of signature look that nearly all of the lenses designed under Walter Mandler have. I would have bought the APO if it was within my price range, but in all reality I'm plenty happy with how this lens performs, and stopped down it's as sharp as one could want.
I'm using it on an M240, but I am sure it would work well with an A7 body.
I'm using it on an M240, but I am sure it would work well with an A7 body.
Feb 06, 2016 at 12:04 PM
p.1 #890mm MF Alt for A7?
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Contax C/Ys 2.8/85 and 3.5/100 are both pretty good wide open. I have had both and I strongly prefer the 100mm, but 85mm is smaller size and pretty good as well. Naturally any of the f/2.8 (or 3.5) lenses can't have same subject and back-/foreground separation, what your Z-series MP 100 had.
Samuli
Why do you prefer the 100?
I have a loaned G90 and like it's performance and size quite a bit so I am thinking about getting the c/y 2.8/85. I have no personal experience with the 3.5/100 but probably tomorrow Jannik Peters will publish a review of it in my blog and it seems to be a very capable lens but the 85 seems to ne more attractive to me because it's smaller
Feb 06, 2016 at 12:04 PM
p.1 #990mm MF Alt for A7?
Phillip Reeve wrote:
Why do you prefer the 100?
For boke quality. It's the only lens this far I have found that I like shooting wide open. Usually I like to close down 1-1.5 stops to improve boke quality, but it's not needed with 3.5/100. Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger boke in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85. Naturally differences are not earth shaking.
On focus plane they have very little difference if any at all.
Samuli
Why do you prefer the 100?
For boke quality. It's the only lens this far I have found that I like shooting wide open. Usually I like to close down 1-1.5 stops to improve boke quality, but it's not needed with 3.5/100. Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger boke in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85. Naturally differences are not earth shaking.
On focus plane they have very little difference if any at all.
Samuli
Feb 06, 2016 at 12:18 PM
p.1 #1190mm MF Alt for A7?
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger boke in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85.
Had brainfart while writing - Correction "Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger DOF in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85."
Samuli
Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger boke in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85.
Had brainfart while writing - Correction "Naturally it has the boke defect of having larger DOF in corners, but this and cats-eye is not as bad as with 2.8/85."
Samuli
Feb 06, 2016 at 12:59 PM
p.1 #1290mm MF Alt for A7?
I have used the Samyang 85 1.4 on my A7 (Nikon native lens mount) and feel the results are excellent, even wide-open.
Not sure what you personally seek in Bokeh, but for the content I shoot with this FL (portraits and landscape) I find it superb.
Not sure what you personally seek in Bokeh, but for the content I shoot with this FL (portraits and landscape) I find it superb.
Feb 06, 2016 at 02:35 PM
p.1 #1390mm MF Alt for A7?
I have the Leica 90mm APO (and have had the Summarit and the tele-Elmar). It's a great lens at a big price. Optically probably the closest to what you want.
However on the A7, I would still, and do, put up with the weight penalty of the makro-planar. I have the ZF version and it's soooooo good on the A7RII.
Gordon
However on the A7, I would still, and do, put up with the weight penalty of the makro-planar. I have the ZF version and it's soooooo good on the A7RII.
Gordon
Feb 06, 2016 at 03:52 PM
p.1 #1490mm MF Alt for A7?
i have both the Leica M 90mm f2.5 Summarit and the Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit lenses. The R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit is the more versatile lens and certainly sharper close up and quite possibly even at distance when stopped down a little. But, it is at the price of size, weight, and cost. It is a stellar performing lens.
When I want to carry as smaller, lighter, more compact lens I opt for and more often carry my M 90mm Summarit lens. It is quite sharp, light, small, and performs exceedingly well on my A7r. It may not be quite as good as the M 90mm f2 Apo Summicron but it is much smaller, lighter, and much less costly. The lens does need a lens hood, which is optional from Leica and it balances well on the A7r and A7 series cameras. When teamed up with something like the Hawk's Factory V Helicoid the lens will focus fairly close.
Below is an image taken with my 90mm f2.5 Summarit and the Hawk's Factory Helicoid.
Rich
ISO 200, lens set to f11 for 1/100 second.
When I want to carry as smaller, lighter, more compact lens I opt for and more often carry my M 90mm Summarit lens. It is quite sharp, light, small, and performs exceedingly well on my A7r. It may not be quite as good as the M 90mm f2 Apo Summicron but it is much smaller, lighter, and much less costly. The lens does need a lens hood, which is optional from Leica and it balances well on the A7r and A7 series cameras. When teamed up with something like the Hawk's Factory V Helicoid the lens will focus fairly close.
Below is an image taken with my 90mm f2.5 Summarit and the Hawk's Factory Helicoid.
Rich
ISO 200, lens set to f11 for 1/100 second.
Feb 06, 2016 at 05:44 PM
p.1 #1590mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
Having let my ZE 100/2 go with my 5DII, I'm now feeling withdrawal symptoms,(lens-wise that is, I love the A7), so I'm assessing some 85 -100mms for my A7 and realise I haven't a clue about the apparently wide range of Leica 90mms, both M and R.
I'm wanting it especially for good wide open performance for the type of shot below (with ZE 100/2)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/9739144821_283fea85ec_o.jpgNovember Wood by Tim Ball, on Flickr
I toyed with the idea of getting a ZF 100/2, as I loved that pencil thin line of sharpness with rapid fall off to smooth bokeh, and the rich colouring, but...Show more →
it sounds to me like the OM 90/2 macro might be the best bet for you. it has excellent contrast and sharpness wide open and has the sharpest transition from in focus to out of focus of any lens i've seen (in that focus range).
i own the rokinon 85/1.4, rokkor 85/2, contarex 85/2, and contax g 90/2.8, but my personal favorite is the last pre-AA versions of the m 90 cron. it probably wouldn't satisfy what you're looking for though if you want something similar to the 100/2 MP. the cron has a fair bit of SA wide open that gives a bit of glow and makes the focus transition slower. here's a few samples with the cron to give you an idea of the look (i believe these are all wide open, but some may be f/2.8):
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7728/18294245281_1a920d9a88_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/562/18378240291_fb1610bb62_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8826/17962552819_834125cc93_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7674/17044254075_fbd0653a5c_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7605/16863979650_95638baaf5_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7715/16424104523_09cd9cface_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7606/16856470788_60f93275b7_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8883/18106643129_e26ef28278_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8872/18350256296_b30f7a4184_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8707/16396140653_ae759076b7_o.jpg
Having let my ZE 100/2 go with my 5DII, I'm now feeling withdrawal symptoms,(lens-wise that is, I love the A7), so I'm assessing some 85 -100mms for my A7 and realise I haven't a clue about the apparently wide range of Leica 90mms, both M and R.
I'm wanting it especially for good wide open performance for the type of shot below (with ZE 100/2)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/9739144821_283fea85ec_o.jpgNovember Wood by Tim Ball, on Flickr
I toyed with the idea of getting a ZF 100/2, as I loved that pencil thin line of sharpness with rapid fall off to smooth bokeh, and the rich colouring, but...Show more →
it sounds to me like the OM 90/2 macro might be the best bet for you. it has excellent contrast and sharpness wide open and has the sharpest transition from in focus to out of focus of any lens i've seen (in that focus range).
i own the rokinon 85/1.4, rokkor 85/2, contarex 85/2, and contax g 90/2.8, but my personal favorite is the last pre-AA versions of the m 90 cron. it probably wouldn't satisfy what you're looking for though if you want something similar to the 100/2 MP. the cron has a fair bit of SA wide open that gives a bit of glow and makes the focus transition slower. here's a few samples with the cron to give you an idea of the look (i believe these are all wide open, but some may be f/2.8):
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7728/18294245281_1a920d9a88_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/562/18378240291_fb1610bb62_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8826/17962552819_834125cc93_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7674/17044254075_fbd0653a5c_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7605/16863979650_95638baaf5_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7715/16424104523_09cd9cface_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7606/16856470788_60f93275b7_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8883/18106643129_e26ef28278_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8872/18350256296_b30f7a4184_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8707/16396140653_ae759076b7_o.jpg
Feb 06, 2016 at 05:59 PM
p.1 #1690mm MF Alt for A7?
The Nikkor 105/2.5 ltm is a good choice and not expensive.
With a helicoid M mount adapter, it gets close enough imo.
This is a Sonnar design, with its usual trade-offs
Nice bokeh, but more center sharp wide open and excellent by f4-5.6.
20160126-DSC09739 by jenkwang, on Flickr
Portrait of a young lady by jenkwang, on Flickr
20160126-DSC09746 by jenkwang, on Flickr
With a helicoid M mount adapter, it gets close enough imo.
This is a Sonnar design, with its usual trade-offs
Nice bokeh, but more center sharp wide open and excellent by f4-5.6.
20160126-DSC09739 by jenkwang, on Flickr
Portrait of a young lady by jenkwang, on Flickr
20160126-DSC09746 by jenkwang, on Flickr
Feb 06, 2016 at 06:54 PM
p.1 #1790mm MF Alt for A7?
I'm planning to use the Leica 90mm Macro-Elmar-M as a short tele lens for my A7RII. Wide open performance (on a M9) was extemely good, but of course wide open in this case means f/4. It's a very small lens with lovely colors and a beautiful rendering. At f/4 it's even slightly sharper than the 90mm Apo. But it's not cheap, at least 1500€ used.
It's the only lens I kept when I sold all my M9 stuff.
When I get my A7RII (probably end of February) I will do some tests how this lens performs on a 42MP sensor, but I'm quite optimistic.
Boris
It's the only lens I kept when I sold all my M9 stuff.
When I get my A7RII (probably end of February) I will do some tests how this lens performs on a 42MP sensor, but I'm quite optimistic.
Boris
Feb 07, 2016 at 03:52 AM
p.1 #1890mm MF Alt for A7?
sebboh wrote:
it sounds to me like the OM 90/2 macro might be the best bet for you. it has excellent contrast and sharpness wide open and has the sharpest transition from in focus to out of focus of any lens i've seen (in that focus range).
Thanks sebboh, that was my conclusion too before I realised I didn't know anything about the Leica lenses. I think I'll probably leave it at finding one of those.
(I've also searched out a Sonnar 100/3.5 on eBay UK, third attempt for one, here's hoping...so don't bid on it Phillip ;o))
Thanks everyone else too, for all the suggestions and shots.
it sounds to me like the OM 90/2 macro might be the best bet for you. it has excellent contrast and sharpness wide open and has the sharpest transition from in focus to out of focus of any lens i've seen (in that focus range).
Thanks sebboh, that was my conclusion too before I realised I didn't know anything about the Leica lenses. I think I'll probably leave it at finding one of those.
(I've also searched out a Sonnar 100/3.5 on eBay UK, third attempt for one, here's hoping...so don't bid on it Phillip ;o))
Thanks everyone else too, for all the suggestions and shots.
Feb 07, 2016 at 11:06 AM
p.1 #1990mm MF Alt for A7?
Leica Elmarit-M 90/2.8 is a superlative lens. The sliding hood is very nice too. Easy to find and relatively inexpensive by any standards because it was very popular and lots were made. Bitingly sharp. For portraits, the slightly more expensive (used) Summicron M 90/2 (pre APO) might be preferred.
Feb 07, 2016 at 11:15 AM
p.1 #2090mm MF Alt for A7?
Phillip Reeve wrote:
Samuli Vahonen wrote
Contax C/Ys 2.8/85 and 3.5/100 are both pretty good wide open. I have had both and I strongly prefer the 100mm, but 85mm is smaller size and pretty good as well. Naturally any of the f/2.8 (or 3.5) lenses can't have same subject and back-/foreground separation, what your Z-series MP 100 had.Samuli
I have a loaned G90 and like it's performance and size quite a bit so I am thinking about getting the c/y 2.8/85. I have no personal experience with the 3.5/100 but probably tomorrow Jannik Peters will publish a review of it in my blog and it seems to be a very capable lens but the 85 seems to ne more attractive to me because it's smaller
I will say that the Contax G 90mm has more aperture blades than the 85mm. The 85mm has 6, the 90 has 8. The 90 should have a bit more rounded bokeh, but definitely more difficult ergonomics when adapted
Feb 07, 2016 at 11:23 AM