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Archive 2016 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

millsart
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p.8 #1 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

I used to shoot, and enjoy, a M9. That camera wasn't too good past about iso1200, and that is putting it kindly. I find the Q, as good or "bad" as it may be compared to the rest of the world, is still night and day better than what I had to work with previously, so I'm happy and have all the more high ISO performance I need for what I shoot.

I came from a a7s and a7rII as well, I'm sure we can agree those are "better", but did it make me enjoy shooting them any more ? Nope, not one bit.

A D5 at ISO 1 million+ is probably better still, but to what end ? Do I want to carry one or pay $6500?

It comes back to the basic issue of if a camera is something you want to carry, and enjoy shooting. A camera is more than a spec sheet and theoretical discussion. As I mentioned previously, I usually add grain to images, as many do. I don't want a ton of chroma noise blobs at iso800, but short of that, I'm just not spending that much time worrying about these type of things.

I have a f1.7 lens and can easily go to ISO 12,500....life is good, ISO 56,000 or higher wouldn't really make things any better. It's like winning 500 million or 600 million in the lotto; does is really matter after the first few million? Your set for life with more money than you'll ever need either way.

Jan 11, 2016 at 08:44 AM

ryankarr
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p.8 #2 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

millsart wrote:
I used to shoot, and enjoy, a M9. That camera wasn't too good past about iso1200, and that is putting it kindly. I find the Q, as good or "bad" as it may be compared to the rest of the world, is still night and day better than what I had to work with previously, so I'm happy and have all the more high ISO performance I need for what I shoot.

I came from a a7s and a7rII as well, I'm sure we can agree those are "better", but did it make me enjoy shooting them any more ? Nope,...Show more →

I would very much agree with this post.

I went through the RX2 vs Q decision process, I have a similar mindset to millsart, with the twist that I greatly prefer 35mm to 28mm.

I've bought and sold a lot of camera's and I've never gotten rid of anything with an APS-C or larger sensor because of output quality, it's always because I find it frustrating to use in some way. In this case the physical layout of the Q, along with the AF speed and electronic shutter were the key points. It was a hard choice because I loved the lens and files from my old RX1 (and I've been very spoiled by the files from my 645Z), but I can 100% say I made the right choice for me with the Q.

I've had my Q for almost a week. Most enjoyable, responsive camera I've ever shot (Including D800, D4, A7, M9, M240, XT1, X100T, 645Z, Ricoh GR, EP-5, RX1, etc). High ISO performance definitely isn't class leading, but with f 1.7, ISO 12k, a leaf shutter AND OIS I can never see that being a problem for a 28mm lens.

All I need Leica (by that I mean Panasonic), to do is give me more options for the FN buttons so I can setup a few different AF modes without diving into menus.

Jan 11, 2016 at 11:46 AM

DavidBM
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p.8 #3 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Zony_user wrote:
Thanks for that. I completely understand now.

So when cropping in post, I should always crop before I start processing the image to magnify the noise level. Sometimes I'd crop after I'd finish processing, not knowing any degradation could occur.

Thanks again, I learn something everyday here!

Um, I'm not sure that's right.

If you are going to downsize, yes, maybe do so before processing because downsizing remaps the pixels.

But if you are just going to crop, what you are left with is just a segment of the original, so it really shouldn't matter whether your processing is done before or after the crop. Of course it might be easier to see what you are doing if you crop first.

Jan 11, 2016 at 06:47 PM

patotts
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p.8 #4 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Lots of good info/opinions/experiences shared in this post.

I had the Leica Q over the summer (3 months) before selling it. It was a joy to use, I found it faster and more intuitive that the Sony A7xxx I've used, but at the end the 28mm focal length wasn't suitable for me as I mostly shoot people. I would have loved to have a 35 or 50 mm lens on there. I never had any issues with the image quality or resolution.

I'm willing to give the RX1Rii a serious look as I also would welcome the smaller package.

Now where can I find one... :-)

Jan 14, 2016 at 10:15 AM

millsart
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p.8 #5 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

The rx1rii shortage, with no estimate of when to even expect shipment again, must be quite the dream come true for Leica's sales dept.

Really makes you wonder how many extra units they sold to buyers who otherwise would of taken a rx2 if they had the choice and that just didn't want to wait anymore

Rx2 has a megapixel advantage for sure but until Sony gives some info on the issues, when they may ship etc, it's nearly a vapor ware camera.

On the other hand, anyone selling a used rx2 certainly has a sellers market

Jan 14, 2016 at 12:40 PM

patotts
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p.8 #6 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

It is a bit bizarre that the A7RII, which uses the same sensor, is readily available but Sony cannot deliver the RX1Rii in sufficient quantities. One suspects the Sonnar 35/2 might be the limitation in terms of supply.

Having said that, finding a Leica Q is no walk in the park these days either.

Perhaps I should just get a A7Rii + 55/1.8 and be there for a while...

Jan 14, 2016 at 01:08 PM

Mystik
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p.8 #7 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Jan 14, 2016 at 02:24 PM

goosemang
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p.8 #8 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

robgo2 wrote:
Shooting with a 28mm lens and stepping closer to your subject changes perspective and will not give you the same look that you like from a 35mm lens. I would suggest that you make sure that you like that look before committing to the Q.

Rob

i'd second that the focal length here is a big deal, and 7mm is more than you may imagine if you're used to either 35mm or 28mm.

i've shot a ton of 35mm and 28 is whole different can of beans. i honestly might have jumped at the Q if it were a 35, but i've been shooting a lot with a 28mm on my dslr this past year and it ain't no 35.

for me 35 is wide normal, and i love it. 28 is firmly in the wide angle camp, and while i also like 28 i have to behave quite differently when i shoot with it. it may be "two steps" in theory, but in practice it's a big two steps. anybody who shoots 35 and tries to go to a 50 can also tell you how huge these "two steps" are. i wouldn't bite on a fixed 28 camera unless i knew i really liked 28.

Jan 14, 2016 at 02:26 PM

GMPhotography
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p.8 #9 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

I would never consider the Leica for several reasons but the key is 28mm for me at least. I would want 35 in a fixed lens scenario. Costs for me at least for what you get are too high for Leica. But again I don't collect cameras or buy them for style or anything like that, not saying you should not as if it gets you out the door to shoot that's all that counts but for me these are not for pleasure of any kind , they are working tools to make money. I like functions don't get me wrong but I'm not after that warm and fuzzy feeling as a lot if Leica buyers are. It's great but it's not me. I've been down the Leica path in a big way as well as Medium format digital. I just won't enter that expense any more. Rather go spend money in my hobby, golf. Lol

Jan 14, 2016 at 03:26 PM

GMPhotography
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p.8 #10 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Great user report though and thanks for doing it

Jan 14, 2016 at 03:33 PM

millsart
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p.8 #11 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

patotts wrote:
It is a bit bizarre that the A7RII, which uses the same sensor, is readily available but Sony cannot deliver the RX1Rii in sufficient quantities. One suspects the Sonnar 35/2 might be the limitation in terms of supply.

Having said that, finding a Leica Q is no walk in the park these days either.

Perhaps I should just get a A7Rii + 55/1.8 and be there for a while...

Given the 35/2 Sonnar design is stated to be unchanged, and being produced since 2012, with the original RX1, I wouldn't think there should be a supply shortage in that component. I could be wrong of course, but would think part of the reason Sony kept the lens the same, besides it being so good, is that they already had the production in place and likely a good supply of parts, as with the rest of the housing etc.

Given the likely lower margin on the RX2, I think Sony probably chose to use as many existing parts as possible to lower production cost. Given the sensor, the lens assembly, the hand calibration, et al., I'm honestly surprised the new version of the camera was given a green light at all. Certainly isn't going to a high volume item, nor likely to produce too great of return.... perhaps more of a "just because we can" type of product, as much today, as the original RX1 was back in 2012

Jan 14, 2016 at 06:13 PM

millsart
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p.8 #12 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

goosemang wrote:
i'd second that the focal length here is a big deal, and 7mm is more than you may imagine if you're used to either 35mm or 28mm.

I've actually always felt the RX1 Sonnar feels closer to a 28 than a 35 surprisingly. I think its technically like a 32mm true focal length, but when I shoot it besides the 35/2.8 and 35/1.4 FE's it is noticeably wider. Now I guess technically its still closer to 35 than 28 in absolute terms, but given it does feel a little wider than a traditional 35mm, in my mind the closest association I get is shooting with a 28mm.

I've actually always enjoyed how the RX1 sort of splits the difference between a 28 and a 35, just feels "right" to me. But then again, I'm one of those odd people who really love 40mm as well. A true 50mm can sometimes feel a little tight to be, but 40mm somehow seems just about perfect a lot of time. Even find with my zoom lens that I tend to have a majority of shots right around 40mm, not 35 or 55.

On an unrelated focal length thought, I wonder how smart phones like the iPhone ended up around 30mm ? Was it a design compromise ? Did focus (pun) group testing reveal something like 35mm was too tight, or that a 24mm equiv was too wide ? Essentially who decided the FOV the most used imaging device on the planet should have ?

Jan 14, 2016 at 06:31 PM

sebboh
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p.8 #13 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

millsart wrote:
I've actually always felt the RX1 Sonnar feels closer to a 28 than a 35 surprisingly. I think its technically like a 32mm true focal length, but when I shoot it besides the 35/2.8 and 35/1.4 FE's it is noticeably wider. Now I guess technically its still closer to 35 than 28 in absolute terms, but given it does feel a little wider than a traditional 35mm, in my mind the closest association I get is shooting with a 28mm.

I've actually always enjoyed how the RX1 sort of splits the difference between a 28 and a 35, just feels "right"...Show more →

most 35mm lenses are a little longer than 35mm, typically 36-37mm just as most 50mm lenses are actually 51-52mm.

i suspect the 30mm focal length on most phones was chosen to balance the ability to take pictures of groups across restaurant tables with perspective distortion.

Jan 14, 2016 at 07:03 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.8 #14 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

The Sonnar 35/2 is definitely closer to 35mm. I would say it's 33mm (before correction)
The FE 35/2.8 seems to be about 36mm.

28mm is much wider than 35mm or even 33mm. It's a about 10 degrees difference in diagonal angle of view.

To put it in perspective it's the same diagonal angle of view difference between 85mm and 135mm!

Jan 14, 2016 at 07:23 PM

millsart
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p.8 #15 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Well regardless of whatever its closer to, I think the important point is that the RX1 feels a bit wider than the "typical" 35mm. (of which I must admit I did not know weren't a true 35mm)

As I said, I found the FoV difference was noticeable (in what I considered a positive way) between my 35/2.8 FE and the RX1. Again to each his own, but I felt the 28/2 FE on the A7rII reminded me more of shooting the RX1 than the 35/2.8 FE did.

Maybe the 28/2 FE is slightly longer than 28mm as well ? Of which, it could come closer to 32.5ish MM than a 37mm lens ?

If someone really likes a 35 on their A7 series, they might be surprised at how the RX1 feels a little different. Either for better or worse.

Regardless though, the RX1 does have a longer focal length than the Q, so if one wants as close to a true 35mm as possible, the RX1 is the way to go.

Jan 14, 2016 at 08:37 PM

millsart
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p.8 #16 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

Exciting times with the RX1rII finally getting a shipment date, and hopefully Q's becoming more readily in stock. Choices, choices....

To note, The Camera Store just posted their RX2 review along with some thoughts on how it compares to the Q.

Jan 21, 2016 at 10:40 AM

newtophoto
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p.8 #17 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

This review didn't make it any easier to choose between the two...

Jan 21, 2016 at 05:02 PM

millsart
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p.8 #18 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

newtophoto wrote:
This review didn't make it any easier to choose between the two...

I think it pointed out some of the subjective and also technical pro's/con's of both. Just as they said in the video, the RX2 has the better sensor in terms of resolution, DR, and noise levels, and I think for some, that is a primary consideration, and one that is pretty absolute.

There are subjective differences in terms of handling, design, FoV etc though that need to be weighted as well.

Too bad Leica didn't just put the 42meg Sony sensor in the Q and make it just a question of 28 vs 35

Jan 21, 2016 at 05:07 PM

robgo2
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p.8 #19 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

newtophoto wrote:
This review didn't make it any easier to choose between the two...

The first consideration should be focal length. There is a significant difference between 35 and 28mm that really matters depending on the type of shooting you do and how you visualize photographically.

Rob

Jan 21, 2016 at 05:14 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.8 #20 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

robgo2 wrote:
The first consideration should be focal length. There is a significant difference between 35 and 28mm that really matters depending on the type of shooting you do and how you visualize photographically.

Rob

True when the lenses in question are true 28 vs 35mm's. That was not my experience with the original RX1 though where there was not a significant difference between it's actual focal length and a 28mm. I don't know how much variability in focal length there is among specific RX1 Sonnar's but the one I owned was equal to 31-32mm's before digital corrections (which was never really necessary). When I shot it side by side with a 28mm lens, only a three foot difference was required to give the same frame at infinity. Furthermore, the accessory Zeiss 35mm optical finder for the RX1 was noticeably too narrow for the lens (and a Leica 28 finder was much closer to the actual angle of view).

Jan 21, 2016 at 07:53 PM

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