Sony Smooth Reflection App
p.5 #1Sony Smooth Reflection App
AGeoJO wrote:
So, Fred, did the camera actually take 600 shots continuously and the shutter was activated 600X times? Then, if you end up taking 3-4 similar shots, I will log in 600 shutter actuations for each shot, right? On a scenery that I really like, I do take 3-4 shots and recompose here and there. Just confirming....
Yes, the shutter was activated 600 times for that afternoon test. However, I only got a few resulting images using the SR App.
I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.
Fred Miranda wrote
I tested the smooth reflection app one afternoon and took over 600 shots total wth my RX1RII.Yes, the shutter was activated 600 times for that afternoon test. However, I only got a few resulting images using the SR App.
I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.
Dec 26, 2015 at 12:04 PM
p.5 #2Sony Smooth Reflection App
Thanks for the confirmation, Fred! It is just mind boggling that you have to take some 2,000 or so shots to end up with only 3-4 raw files.
Dec 26, 2015 at 12:16 PM
p.5 #3Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
Fred, if you take this huge number of frames with the app, how do you avoid any kind of camera shake during this time?
http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v144/p1830566497-5.jpgThe shooting technique to avoid camera shake with the app would be the same one you would use when using a physical high stop ND filter.
I would advise using a sturdy tripod on stable ground and a remote shutter (or using the app self-timer)
If it's very windy or if the ground is unstable, I would not even use a real ND filter. I would take multiple exposures separately (without the app) and auto-align them in Photoshop before blending.
Remember, the App does not auto-align images. That would be a great update for it.
Likely also the electronic shutter in the MkII versions help here. Yes, I figured that there is no auto alignment which I hoped it would do so. Hopefully in an update!
retrofocus wrote
Below is an example where I used the smooth reflection app with my A7R and CV 35/1.2 II lens. At the time, I didn't have a ND filter with me which I would have used otherwise. I liked the result obtained with the app but there is one big challenge - hope that your camera does not shake at all during the multiple frames taken. I had to try it 3-4 times to keep a keeper since my camera was sitting on a rock and not directly mounted on a more rigid tripod (didn't carry one with me either on this hike). I also highly recommend to use a remote control to release the first shutter.Fred, if you take this huge number of frames with the app, how do you avoid any kind of camera shake during this time?
http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v144/p1830566497-5.jpg
I would advise using a sturdy tripod on stable ground and a remote shutter (or using the app self-timer)
If it's very windy or if the ground is unstable, I would not even use a real ND filter. I would take multiple exposures separately (without the app) and auto-align them in Photoshop before blending.
Remember, the App does not auto-align images. That would be a great update for it.
Likely also the electronic shutter in the MkII versions help here. Yes, I figured that there is no auto alignment which I hoped it would do so. Hopefully in an update!
Dec 26, 2015 at 12:17 PM
p.5 #4Sony Smooth Reflection App
I also noticed that with many actuations using the app-- that the battery life was much better than individual frames. Makes me wonder why the relatively poor battery performance during regular use.
Dec 26, 2015 at 12:25 PM
p.5 #5Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
So, Fred, did the camera actually take 600 shots continuously and the shutter was activated 600X times? Then, if you end up taking 3-4 similar shots, I will log in 600 shutter actuations for each shot, right? On a scenery that I really like, I do take 3-4 shots and recompose here and there. Just confirming....Yes, the shutter was activated 600 times for that afternoon test. However, I only got a few resulting images using the SR App.
I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.
Fred, I pulled the app up and noticed that on the A7r II, the maximum of exposure it can take is limited to "only" 256 exposures. So, is the 600-exposure shot limited to the RX1R II then?
AGeoJO wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
I tested the smooth reflection app one afternoon and took over 600 shots total wth my RX1RII.I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.
Fred, I pulled the app up and noticed that on the A7r II, the maximum of exposure it can take is limited to "only" 256 exposures. So, is the 600-exposure shot limited to the RX1R II then?
Dec 26, 2015 at 12:26 PM
p.5 #6Sony Smooth Reflection App
mark1958 wrote:
I also noticed that with many actuations using the app-- that the battery life was much better than individual frames. Makes me wonder why the relatively poor battery performance during regular use.
Probably because actual exposures don't use much power relative to the continuous power consumption of running full-time Live View through the EVF or LCD.
I also noticed that with many actuations using the app-- that the battery life was much better than individual frames. Makes me wonder why the relatively poor battery performance during regular use.
Probably because actual exposures don't use much power relative to the continuous power consumption of running full-time Live View through the EVF or LCD.
Dec 26, 2015 at 01:30 PM
p.5 #7Sony Smooth Reflection App
AGeoJO wrote:
So, Fred, did the camera actually take 600 shots continuously and the shutter was activated 600X times? Then, if you end up taking 3-4 similar shots, I will log in 600 shutter actuations for each shot, right? On a scenery that I really like, I do take 3-4 shots and recompose here and there. Just confirming....Yes, the shutter was activated 600 times for that afternoon test. However, I only got a few resulting images using the SR App.
I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.Fred, I pulled the app up and noticed that on the A7r II, the maximum of exposure it can take is limited to "only" 256 exposures. So, is the 600-exposure shot limited to the RX1R II then?
I can see how this can be confusing. I didn't take 600 shots continuously at once using the app. I used it for a period of time and the total exposures were around 600. One resulting image was obtained from 256 exposures, another from 128 and so on...I ended up with several images that day. The maximum number of exposures for the app is indeed 256 exposures and that takes around 4 minutes or more to complete depending on how long your shutter speed is.
Fred Miranda wrote
AGeoJO wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
I tested the smooth reflection app one afternoon and took over 600 shots total wth my RX1RII.I have not tested my camera total shutter actuations yet but I'm assuming it would count the 600.
I can see how this can be confusing. I didn't take 600 shots continuously at once using the app. I used it for a period of time and the total exposures were around 600. One resulting image was obtained from 256 exposures, another from 128 and so on...I ended up with several images that day. The maximum number of exposures for the app is indeed 256 exposures and that takes around 4 minutes or more to complete depending on how long your shutter speed is.
Dec 26, 2015 at 02:18 PM
p.5 #8Sony Smooth Reflection App
I just tried to determine if the shutter count does indeed increment for this app.
However, it appears that Sony has eliminated total shutter counts from exif data with the RX1rII. I used exif tool and could not find anything. This is specific to this camera's firmware, as the shutter counts are still listed with the A7rII (same sensor).
However, it appears that Sony has eliminated total shutter counts from exif data with the RX1rII. I used exif tool and could not find anything. This is specific to this camera's firmware, as the shutter counts are still listed with the A7rII (same sensor).
Dec 26, 2015 at 04:11 PM
p.5 #9Sony Smooth Reflection App
Quick question re. Sky-HDR app...
Is it possible to use this app hand held rather than just on a tripod?
There are times that I might bracket hand held shooting continously and using HDR app e.g. Lightroom, to align the image. Does this app work in the same way where it shoots the 2 images in continous mode quickly and aligns the 2 images?
Is it possible to use this app hand held rather than just on a tripod?
There are times that I might bracket hand held shooting continously and using HDR app e.g. Lightroom, to align the image. Does this app work in the same way where it shoots the 2 images in continous mode quickly and aligns the 2 images?
Dec 27, 2015 at 06:36 AM
p.5 #10Sony Smooth Reflection App
I did a test of 256 images vs a single 5 minute RAW exposure and there is strong evidence that there is compression applied to the final blended images. There is loads of posterization in the shadows. Shadows are heavily boosted in example below on A7R.
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Dec 28, 2015 at 01:18 AM
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p.5 #11Sony Smooth Reflection App
Frogfish wrote:
I would download the app straight from the camera instead.Thanks, Fred. It woks now but it should work the other way, too. Oh, well.
Sony limits the number of apps you purchased to 10 devices. I have installed the apps on 4 units already now. At the rate Sony is coming out with new cameras, I will have to buy the apps all over again in 2-3 years
. They should do it like Apple. They limit it to 5 but when you sell/get rid of some devices, you free up the spot or spots.I could never get it to work from my computer either...Another app you should try is the "Smooth Reflection". It also yields a RAW file.
Sky HDR should be called "GND" and Smoother Reflection "ND".
I simply can't get it to work either way. I can connect just fine by WiFi and have downloaded a free app that needed updating but whenever I try to buy an app (my Credit Card has already been registered) I log in and then get a "Network Error' every time. Maybe this is specifically a banned site in China (accessing the Hong Kong server).
Direct from the computer I get a warning from Chrome that Sony are using an old 'NAPI' format that is now a security risk and that these have been updated to PPAPI. Safari stops in the...Show more →
I had to disable my anti-virus software to get past the 'Network error".
Fred Miranda wrote
AGeoJO wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
AGeoJO wrote
I keep on getting an error message stating "cannot switch camera to download mode". I use the USB cable supplied by Sony and I successfully upgraded the firmware just today with it. I set the USB connection to MTP and the USB LUN Setting to single, just like I am supposed to do but still getting that error message. I restarted my Mac, just in case to no avail. That sucks....Sony limits the number of apps you purchased to 10 devices. I have installed the apps on 4 units already now. At the rate Sony is coming out with new cameras, I will have to buy the apps all over again in 2-3 years
. They should do it like Apple. They limit it to 5 but when you sell/get rid of some devices, you free up the spot or spots.Sky HDR should be called "GND" and Smoother Reflection "ND".
Direct from the computer I get a warning from Chrome that Sony are using an old 'NAPI' format that is now a security risk and that these have been updated to PPAPI. Safari stops in the...Show more →
I had to disable my anti-virus software to get past the 'Network error".
Dec 28, 2015 at 04:31 AM
p.5 #12Sony Smooth Reflection App
roshambo123 wrote:
I did a test of 256 images vs a single 5 minute RAW exposure and there is strong evidence that there is compression applied to the final blended images. There is loads of posterization in the shadows. Shadows are heavily boosted in example below on A7R.
I don't think it's due to compression. If you take 256 shots and blend them in Photoshop using stack mode 'mean', you should see similar results. That is because the noise floor is extremely low as ISO equiv. gets close to zero. There isn't noise to dither tonal transitions and that results in posterization when pushing EV.
In normal shooting though, I don't see any evidence of this as I tested here. (See third image using 256 shots with the app)
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1403764/2#13340172
The shadows were boosted about +2EV and I don't see any signs of posterization. Here is a 1:1 crop:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1403764/2#13343150
I did a test of 256 images vs a single 5 minute RAW exposure and there is strong evidence that there is compression applied to the final blended images. There is loads of posterization in the shadows. Shadows are heavily boosted in example below on A7R.
I don't think it's due to compression. If you take 256 shots and blend them in Photoshop using stack mode 'mean', you should see similar results. That is because the noise floor is extremely low as ISO equiv. gets close to zero. There isn't noise to dither tonal transitions and that results in posterization when pushing EV.
In normal shooting though, I don't see any evidence of this as I tested here. (See third image using 256 shots with the app)
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1403764/2#13340172
The shadows were boosted about +2EV and I don't see any signs of posterization. Here is a 1:1 crop:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1403764/2#13343150
Dec 28, 2015 at 10:50 AM
p.5 #13Sony Smooth Reflection App
I did another test tonight, and the results were in line with Fred's original post with clean shadows. I'm not seeing the posterization in this example.
256 images blended with Smooth Reflections
64 images blended with Smooth Reflections
Single RAW
+4 exposure. Capture One 8. NR off
256 images blended with Smooth Reflections
64 images blended with Smooth Reflections
Single RAW
+4 exposure. Capture One 8. NR off
Dec 28, 2015 at 08:02 PM
p.5 #14Sony Smooth Reflection App
How long it takes for stacking/blending 256 images using the app? Thanks.
Dec 29, 2015 at 05:05 AM
p.5 #15Sony Smooth Reflection App
It didn't take any time to process the blended file., The file was ready couple of seconds after shooting.
So really only the time it takes to capture 256 frames
So really only the time it takes to capture 256 frames
Dec 29, 2015 at 09:30 AM
p.5 #16Sony Smooth Reflection App
Edited version, I really like the app
A7R. ISO 100. f7 @ 1/60. 256 shot blend. 21mm ZF f2.8.
© 2015
A7R. ISO 100. f7 @ 1/60. 256 shot blend. 21mm ZF f2.8.
Dec 29, 2015 at 01:10 PM
p.5 #19Sony Smooth Reflection App
Just got back from a trip to Florida, birding mostly with SLT a77ii + Tam 150/600 but did take the A7Rii.
Not my cup o tea/genre but I did give the poor man's Loxia a go thanks to Fred's thread on Smooth Reflections as a motivator to try, also first time using the 21mm wide angle adapter---not having a clue really, just giving it ago. Agreed 128 raw stacked in camera is an amazing thing. Nothing picturesque, just shaking hands with the app-
Smooth Reflections Bradenton Marina by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr
Not my cup o tea/genre but I did give the poor man's Loxia a go thanks to Fred's thread on Smooth Reflections as a motivator to try, also first time using the 21mm wide angle adapter---not having a clue really, just giving it ago. Agreed 128 raw stacked in camera is an amazing thing. Nothing picturesque, just shaking hands with the app-
Smooth Reflections Bradenton Marina by MedicineMan4040, on FlickrDec 30, 2015 at 12:18 AM
p.5 #20Sony Smooth Reflection App
So am I correct in assuming that about 2000 or so of the shots that require 256 blended shots, max out the expected life expectancy of the sensor in the A7rll ?
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Dec 31, 2015 at 05:30 AM