Sony Smooth Reflection App
p.21 #1Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
With the a9 they changed their software to a lightweight os with a whole new base. They kept the essentials, the connect to phone and baked it into the software but they developed the new operating system, not like it was for a multimedia device or a smartphone (some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base) but a camera only operating system that is fast to bootup and does the essentials camera stuff. Nothing more and nothing less.
So if that's the case, those apps will never come back because the whole framework to be able to run those apps slows the camera down if it's loaded all the time.
Actually they could come back if Sony would develop a custom operating system base for them, but that's too expensive I guess. And all other working bases like Android that support apps are not suitable for a fast bootup.
Ok, just introducing a standby mode would do just fine.. maybe noone thought about that at sonyDo you see any possibility for the in-camera 'apps' to be used from the PlayMemories 'Mobile' app instead? (through wifi or bluetooth)
Like that, Sony could continue the development of apps for our devices to be used with all Sony cameras.
Everyone has a phone in their pocket. Problem solved!
I've done some work with the WiFi API Sony offers to Smartphone developers. It's rather limited in its current form and doesn't offer the functionality needed to implement an advanced app like Smooth Reflections. It offers basic primitives such as changing the exposures, specifying a focus point, taking an exposure, etc...
Faulta wrote
I don't know if someone mentioned that but here's what I think is going on. The Sony a9 and a7r III are faster than all other Sony camera. And with faster, I also mean menus and bootup time. The reason, most Sony cameras are quite slow is, that they have a quite complex operating system in the background that can handle those apps.With the a9 they changed their software to a lightweight os with a whole new base. They kept the essentials, the connect to phone and baked it into the software but they developed the new operating system, not like it was for a multimedia device or a smartphone (some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base) but a camera only operating system that is fast to bootup and does the essentials camera stuff. Nothing more and nothing less.
So if that's the case, those apps will never come back because the whole framework to be able to run those apps slows the camera down if it's loaded all the time.
Actually they could come back if Sony would develop a custom operating system base for them, but that's too expensive I guess. And all other working bases like Android that support apps are not suitable for a fast bootup.
Ok, just introducing a standby mode would do just fine.. maybe noone thought about that at sony
Like that, Sony could continue the development of apps for our devices to be used with all Sony cameras.
Everyone has a phone in their pocket. Problem solved!
I've done some work with the WiFi API Sony offers to Smartphone developers. It's rather limited in its current form and doesn't offer the functionality needed to implement an advanced app like Smooth Reflections. It offers basic primitives such as changing the exposures, specifying a focus point, taking an exposure, etc...
Oct 29, 2017 at 01:00 PM
p.21 #2Sony Smooth Reflection App
snapsy wrote:
With the a9 they changed their software to a lightweight os with a whole new base. They kept the essentials, the connect to phone and baked it into the software but they developed the new operating system, not like it was for a multimedia device or a smartphone (some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base) but a camera only operating system that is fast to bootup and does the essentials camera stuff. Nothing more and nothing less.
So if that's the case, those apps will never come back because the whole framework to be able to run those apps slows the camera down if it's loaded all the time.
Actually they could come back if Sony would develop a custom operating system base for them, but that's too expensive I guess. And all other working bases like Android that support apps are not suitable for a fast bootup.
Ok, just introducing a standby mode would do just fine.. maybe noone thought about that at sonyDo you see any possibility for the in-camera 'apps' to be used from the PlayMemories 'Mobile' app instead? (through wifi or bluetooth)
Like that, Sony could continue the development of apps for our devices to be used with all Sony cameras.
Everyone has a phone in their pocket. Problem solved!I've done some work with the WiFi API Sony offers to Smartphone developers. It's rather limited in its current form and doesn't offer the functionality needed to implement an advanced app like Smooth Reflections. It offers basic primitives such as changing the exposures, specifying a focus point, taking an exposure, etc...
What I meant is for Sony (not developers) to port their current in-camera apps to run from the Playmemories mobile app instead. (Like they do with the Smart Remote).
Eventually they could update their API for third-party development.
Fred Miranda wrote
Faulta wrote
I don't know if someone mentioned that but here's what I think is going on. The Sony a9 and a7r III are faster than all other Sony camera. And with faster, I also mean menus and bootup time. The reason, most Sony cameras are quite slow is, that they have a quite complex operating system in the background that can handle those apps.With the a9 they changed their software to a lightweight os with a whole new base. They kept the essentials, the connect to phone and baked it into the software but they developed the new operating system, not like it was for a multimedia device or a smartphone (some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base) but a camera only operating system that is fast to bootup and does the essentials camera stuff. Nothing more and nothing less.
So if that's the case, those apps will never come back because the whole framework to be able to run those apps slows the camera down if it's loaded all the time.
Actually they could come back if Sony would develop a custom operating system base for them, but that's too expensive I guess. And all other working bases like Android that support apps are not suitable for a fast bootup.
Ok, just introducing a standby mode would do just fine.. maybe noone thought about that at sony
Like that, Sony could continue the development of apps for our devices to be used with all Sony cameras.
Everyone has a phone in their pocket. Problem solved!
What I meant is for Sony (not developers) to port their current in-camera apps to run from the Playmemories mobile app instead. (Like they do with the Smart Remote).
Eventually they could update their API for third-party development.
Oct 29, 2017 at 05:45 PM
p.21 #3Sony Smooth Reflection App
Faulta wrote:
(some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base)
Android 4.4 kitkat to be precise. Not a rumor, demonstrable fact. The Sony sdk is the android sdk.
Oct 31, 2017 at 03:32 PM
p.21 #4Sony Smooth Reflection App
thrice wrote:
Android 4.4 kitkat to be precise. Not a rumor, demonstrable fact. The Sony sdk is the android sdk.
Very interesting. I think the future is PlayMemories Mobile though. I don't care about downloading apps onto the camera as that has proven to be a bad idea in terms of functionality and speed.
If Sony develops photography tools like bracketing, stacking, intervalometer forsmart devices, it would be a great alternative although I still think this should be built-in to the main firmware.
Faulta wrote
(some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base)Very interesting. I think the future is PlayMemories Mobile though. I don't care about downloading apps onto the camera as that has proven to be a bad idea in terms of functionality and speed.
If Sony develops photography tools like bracketing, stacking, intervalometer forsmart devices, it would be a great alternative although I still think this should be built-in to the main firmware.
Nov 14, 2017 at 12:01 PM
p.21 #5Sony Smooth Reflection App
I feel like a kid that knows what they are getting for Christmas but have to wait. And to think I was a little sad the other day when I traded in my Galen Rowell ND filters. I am all in with Sony and no going back due to the expense ..... and it has been fun reading and looking at all the stellar photos, ..... and now reading about Sky HDR, Smooth Reflection, in camera applications that work on raw files, ...
Nov 15, 2017 at 05:50 AM
p.21 #6Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
thrice wrote
Faulta wrote
(some rumors say, Sony cameras used to use an old ancient Android version as their base)If Sony develops photography tools like bracketing, stacking, intervalometer forsmart devices, it would be a great alternative although I still think this should be built-in to the main firmware.
This makes sense to me, too. There's a natural division between the devices, and the mobile phone platform is already designed to support secure, 3rd party development. Functions that involve intelligent, automated control of existing camera functions (e.g. bracketing and stacking) can be readily offloaded to a mobile software controller whereas firmware level features (e.g. pixel shift) need to be handled onboard the camera. This approach provides the most features for the least problems. There is still a design question over the point at which Sony will force us to take out our phones to run the camera. The camera still needs to function fully without an adjacent phone and compete with competitors so we won't see existing simple exposure bracketing moved out of the camera, but fancier functions that are used less frequently and/or strain the camera's user interface or processor aren't likely to appear onboard. Hopefully, Sony will support third party development of mobile apps instead of stifling new feature development by trying to lock down the mobile app market.
Nov 15, 2017 at 09:08 AM
p.21 #7Sony Smooth Reflection App
moosehead222 wrote:
I feel like a kid that knows what they are getting for Christmas but have to wait. And to think I was a little sad the other day when I traded in my Galen Rowell ND filters. I am all in with Sony and no going back due to the expense ..... and it has been fun reading and looking at all the stellar photos, ..... and now reading about Sky HDR, Smooth Reflection, in camera applications that work on raw files, ...
I think that I feel more like a kid who is offered a great new toy but only if I agree to handing back the best parts of my favorite toy from last Christmas - night-sky images that retain all their stars, and now the in-camera apps. This Santa certainly has some funny quirks...
-John
I feel like a kid that knows what they are getting for Christmas but have to wait. And to think I was a little sad the other day when I traded in my Galen Rowell ND filters. I am all in with Sony and no going back due to the expense ..... and it has been fun reading and looking at all the stellar photos, ..... and now reading about Sky HDR, Smooth Reflection, in camera applications that work on raw files, ...
I think that I feel more like a kid who is offered a great new toy but only if I agree to handing back the best parts of my favorite toy from last Christmas - night-sky images that retain all their stars, and now the in-camera apps. This Santa certainly has some funny quirks...
-John
Nov 15, 2017 at 01:10 PM
p.21 #8Sony Smooth Reflection App
Well, I sold my A7RII for the new A7RIII, so no more PlayMemories apps for me. Bye apps, I will miss you...
Nov 28, 2017 at 09:47 PM
p.21 #9Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred, did you preorder Arsenal? It gives us some hope for a SR app replacement. If it works as advertised, it should be a useful tool.
Nov 28, 2017 at 10:06 PM
p.21 #10Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
Well, I sold my A7RII for the new A7RIII, so no more PlayMemories apps for me. Bye apps, I will miss you...
Hopefully that Arsenal Device will come to fruition...I placed my order for one.
Well, I sold my A7RII for the new A7RIII, so no more PlayMemories apps for me. Bye apps, I will miss you...
Hopefully that Arsenal Device will come to fruition...I placed my order for one.
Nov 29, 2017 at 07:40 AM
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p.21 #11Sony Smooth Reflection App
kdrk888 wrote:
Hopefully that Arsenal Device will come to fruition...I placed my order for one.
Yeap, we are putting all our hope on it.
Fred Miranda wrote
Well, I sold my A7RII for the new A7RIII, so no more PlayMemories apps for me. Bye apps, I will miss you...Yeap, we are putting all our hope on it.
Nov 29, 2017 at 10:21 AM
p.21 #12Sony Smooth Reflection App
rji2goleez wrote:
Fred, did you preorder Arsenal? It gives us some hope for a SR app replacement. If it works as advertised, it should be a useful tool.
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!
Fred, did you preorder Arsenal? It gives us some hope for a SR app replacement. If it works as advertised, it should be a useful tool.
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!
Nov 29, 2017 at 10:22 AM
p.21 #13Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
Hopefully that Arsenal Device will come to fruition...I placed my order for one.Yeap, we are putting all our hope on it.
For me, I want (1) something similar like the Smooth Reflection app, (2） focus stacking that give me one finished raw file in the camera, and (3) In device creation of a raw HDR file. I wouldn't think any of these are hard for Sony to build them in the cameras if they want to.
kdrk888 wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
Well, I sold my A7RII for the new A7RIII, so no more PlayMemories apps for me. Bye apps, I will miss you...For me, I want (1) something similar like the Smooth Reflection app, (2） focus stacking that give me one finished raw file in the camera, and (3) In device creation of a raw HDR file. I wouldn't think any of these are hard for Sony to build them in the cameras if they want to.
Nov 29, 2017 at 01:41 PM
p.21 #14Sony Smooth Reflection App
Fred Miranda wrote:
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?
Nov 29, 2017 at 01:44 PM
p.21 #15Sony Smooth Reflection App
sullivanrp wrote:
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?
It's all done on the smart device and then the resulting file (RAW) is sent to the camera. It does image averaging similarly to how smooth reflections did, averaging one image at every capture.
Fred Miranda wrote
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!It's all done on the smart device and then the resulting file (RAW) is sent to the camera. It does image averaging similarly to how smooth reflections did, averaging one image at every capture.
Nov 29, 2017 at 01:53 PM
p.21 #16Sony Smooth Reflection App
Come to think of it, Sony's price of $4.99 for the SRA is not bad, huh? Oh, well.... 
Nov 29, 2017 at 01:59 PM
p.21 #17Sony Smooth Reflection App
sullivanrp wrote:
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?
The processing will be done in that little device and the file will be saved in the card in the camera, that's what I was told by them.
Fred Miranda wrote
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!The processing will be done in that little device and the file will be saved in the card in the camera, that's what I was told by them.
Nov 29, 2017 at 02:00 PM
p.21 #18Sony Smooth Reflection App
kdrk888 wrote:
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?The processing will be done in that little device and the file will be saved in the card in the camera, that's what I was told by them.
Fascinating. I really am interested to see how those files turn out and their size when combining uncompressed raw 42mp files from an A7RIII, Smooth reflection was pretty killer. The cost may be my only deterrent as SR was $5.
sullivanrp wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!Fascinating. I really am interested to see how those files turn out and their size when combining uncompressed raw 42mp files from an A7RIII, Smooth reflection was pretty killer. The cost may be my only deterrent as SR was $5.
Nov 29, 2017 at 02:08 PM
p.21 #19Sony Smooth Reflection App
sullivanrp wrote:
Just looked it up on kickstarter. Looks promising. I am curious how it would combine raw files into a single exposure for you, though, as it seems it is advertised to do. Does it write applications onto the camera similar to playmemories did? Or can that all really be done simply from a device that is plugged into the usb port of the camera?The processing will be done in that little device and the file will be saved in the card in the camera, that's what I was told by them.Fascinating. I really am interested to see how those files turn out and their size when combining uncompressed raw 42mp files from an A7RIII, Smooth reflection was pretty killer. The cost may be my only deterrent as SR was $5.
yes, it's pricey and a PITA to carry/connect another piece of device. But if It can deliver what they are claiming, I am ok with that.
kdrk888 wrote
sullivanrp wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
I will be testing it for the developer. Hopefully it will work great!yes, it's pricey and a PITA to carry/connect another piece of device. But if It can deliver what they are claiming, I am ok with that.
Nov 29, 2017 at 02:23 PM
p.21 #20Sony Smooth Reflection App
kdrk888 wrote:
yes, it's pricey and a PITA to carry/connect another piece of device. But if It can deliver what they are claiming, I am ok with that.
that PITA is nothing compared to stacking those files yourself in photoshop
I know my post-production could use some refinement and more practice when focus stacking, but if I was shooting this style often enough and this device doesn't take too long to process the files while being used it would seem worth it.
yes, it's pricey and a PITA to carry/connect another piece of device. But if It can deliver what they are claiming, I am ok with that.
that PITA is nothing compared to stacking those files yourself in photoshop
I know my post-production could use some refinement and more practice when focus stacking, but if I was shooting this style often enough and this device doesn't take too long to process the files while being used it would seem worth it.
Nov 29, 2017 at 03:09 PM